Why are reverently offered Latin NO Masses so rare?

[JReducation]

So following Canon Law is little reason?

Even though Canon Law states the the teachin of Latin should be included in the curriculum for those studying to be priests, the law allows bishops and major religious superiors the descretion of implementing the canon. There are many canons that have room for the bishop (in case of secular seminarians) and major superior (in case of religious seminarians) som flexibility.

We really have to trust the bishops and the superior of religious orders to provide the education that they feel best meets the needs of their young.

There are some canons that when asked, the Canon Law Society of America, which is the ultimate authority in interpreting canon law, second to the Pope, the CLS says must be applied as they are. There are others that the CLS says that the bishops or the religious superiors have some room for application.

I’m not a canon lawyer and cannot tell you what the criteria is. But if you’re interested you can get that information from the Canon Law Society of America.

JR

 

[Tsuwano]

I don’t think reverently offered Latin masses of the ordinary form are rare at all. I just think some people, especially in this forum, like to nitpick and see problems where none exist.

 

[bkovacs]

I have rarely been to a NO Mass that was not reverently offered.

Was there Gregorian Chant, incense, only altar boys, silence, did the women wear their mantillas, did you hear the bells when the Eucharist was raised, no extra ordinary eucharistic ministers. If no, than it wasn’t reverent!. Only the Divine Liturgies of the Eastern Church and the Tridentine Masses of the West have these. Hence why they are very reverent.

 

[JReducation]

Was there Gregorian Chant, incense, only altar boys, silence, did the women wear their mantillas, did you hear the bells when the Eucharist was raised, no extra ordinary eucharistic ministers. If no, than it wasn’t reverent!.

Those are very narrow criteria for reverence.

I just came back tonight from an Ordinary Form mass that was very reverently celebrated. There was not Greogiran chant, because our friars do not use Gregorian chant. They never have. There were parts in Latin and parts in Enlglish. I have no idea who wore a mantilla and who didn’t because I was not paying attention to that. I was paying attention to the liturgy.

We did have female altar servers and that didn’t distract or bother me in the least, because they were doing what they are supposed to be doing and they did it well.

We always have the bells. Though I have gotten so used to them that I don’t hear them anymore. I’m more focussed on what’s going on at the altar and on the mysticism of the liturgy and the event.

We had extraordinary ministers, because only three of our friars are priests, the other four are not We had six friars distribute communion. One of them is the Major Superior happens to be a theologian, but is not priest. Again, that does not take away from the reverence. We love our friars and we like seeing them in the liturgy. They are a wonderful example of reverence when they are there for liturgy with the congregation.

The homily was beautiful. The prayers and music were appropriate for the day and the order of the mass flowed seamlessly from beginning to end as prescribed in the rubrics.

At the consecration the Brother Mario’s concentration and time on what he was doing was very inspirational.

Yes we always have quiet times during the liturgy, especially after the proclamation of the Gospel, the homily, and communion. We’ve always had that in our parish. Our friars are very contemplative and their spirit of contemplation is contageous, as is their spirit of joy in celebrating the Eucharist.

Since this was the evening mass, the friars always integrate the Liturgy of the Hours with the evening mass and the morning mass, but that’s allowed to mendicant and monastic orders. Our bishop, who is a secular priest, is very clear that he wants the religious in his diocese to incorporate their traditions into the liturgy where they are allowed and into all the celebrations of the sacraments and the Liturgy of the Hours. He has often said that the biggest blessing in his dioceese is the diversity of religious charisms in the parishes.

I believe that reverent is a liturgy that reflects the spirit of Christ and the love between God and man. It is an event where the mystery of the cross is very visible as well as the adoration of the faithful.

This was a very special mass, because we just received a new Brother in the parish and it was his first mass for our parish. That’s always an occasion of great joy, even though we lost a Brother, because he was transferred to the missions. He’ll be missed. But it looks like Brother Mario will do fine. He’s an excellent preacher, a deeply prayerful man and has a reputation for being a very holy man. It’s hard not to have a reverent mass with such a priest.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[PKinsale]

I don’t think reverently offered Latin masses of the ordinary form are rare at all. I just think some people, especially in this forum, like to nitpick and see problems where none exist.

I live in a metropolitan archdiocese whose most recent archbishop was this country’s strongest supporter of the TLM. Until recently, there were no Latin NO Masses publicly advertised – several TLMs a day, though.

I think the Latin NO Mass provides a good segue to the TLM and should be encouraged. But we need to start with teaching the kids Latin in Catholic schools in a way that gets them to appreciate it, or at least understand it as much as necessary for devotions.

 

[JReducation]

I live in a metropolitan archdiocese whose most recent archbishop was this country’s strongest supporter of the TLM. Until recently, there were no Latin NO Masses publicly advertised – several TLMs a day, though.

I think the Latin NO Mass provides a good segue to the TLM and should be encouraged. But we need to start with teaching the kids Latin in Catholic schools in a way that gets them to appreciate it, or at least understand it as much as necessary for devotions.

The problem is finding teachers who can teach Latin. I went to a high school that taught many languages. Back then it seemed more people were interested in the study of foreign languages. It was easier to find teachers. That’s not the case today.

I had four years of Latin and 12 years of English as foreign languages. But in my travels around the USA I don’t meet too many teachers of languages. It’s seems more common in smaller countries. Maybe I’m wrong. It’s my impression of the USA.

JR

 

[EasterJoy]

Was there Gregorian Chant, incense, only altar boys, silence, did the women wear their mantillas, did you hear the bells when the Eucharist was raised, no extra ordinary eucharistic ministers. If no, than it wasn’t reverent!. Only the Divine Liturgies of the Eastern Church and the Tridentine Masses of the West have these. Hence why they are very reverent.

The Holy Father’s Masses are profoundly reverent, and if you can’t see that, try again.

You are mistaking the reverent with the nostalgically correct. It is possible to have all those outward trappings, as conducive to reverence as they may be, and yet have a Mass that is hurried, slurred or mumbled, going through the motions, some present oblivious to the Mystery taking place, their minds a million miles away or intent on something other than Christ and the demands of faith, hope, charity and all the virtues that the Gospel plainly proclaim, and therefore without reverence. Certainly that list implies that a person might be tempted to irreverence when those things are not present, which would be a bad thing.

Reverence is an attitude of the heart, a humble recognition of the awesome presence of the Divine. The attitude of the body facilitates it or impedes it, but it is no guarantee. It doesn’t require lace, incense, or bells.

 

[JReducation]

The Holy Father’s Masses are profoundly reverent, and if you can’t see that, try again.

You are mistaking the reverent with the nostalgically correct. It is possible to have all those outward trappings, as conducive to reverence as they may be, and yet have a Mass that is hurried, slurred or mumbled, going through the motions, some present oblivious to the Mystery taking place, their minds a million miles away or intent on something other than Christ and the demands of faith, hope, charity and all the virtues that the Gospel plainly proclaim, and therefore without reverence. Certainly that list implies that a person might be tempted to irreverence when those things are not present, which would be a bad thing.

Reverence is an attitude of the heart, a humble recognition of the awesome presence of the Divine. The attitude of the body facilitates it or impedes it, but it is no guarantee. It doesn’t require lace, incense, or bells.

You have reminded me of when our holy father Francis founded our order. Originally the Order was an order of brothers. Some diocesan priests, seeing the holiness of Francis asked to join the Order and were admitted. As the years passed more priests joined the ranks of the Brothers. Yes Brothers, Francis never called anyone Father except himself, even though he was never a priest. But that’s another story.

The priests who joined the Order brought with them the Benedictine tradition of Gregorian chant. One day Francis decided that the tradition did not unify the fraternity, but divided it because Gregorian chant required a great deal of taining to be sung correctly. It also required that the Brothers could chant. And it required that all the Brothers new how to read the notation. As Superior General he decided that the Brothers would no longer use Gregorian Chant at mass or during the Liturgy of the Hours. Also they would not use any of the forms that were traditional monastic gestures for celebrating the liturgies of the mass or the hours.

Anyway, there were other forms of music in Latin and Italian that were very reverent. Francis himself was a musician and a poet, so he wrote some music and hymns for the Brothers to use in liturgy. He wrote them in Italian and some in Latin, mostly in Italian. They came to be known as Laudas from the Italian word meaning “praises”.

Church has proclaimed that no man has ever achieved the perfection of the Gospel as well as Francis of Assisi. Therefore, I can’t imagine someone calling Francis irreverent in his decisions regarding how the Brother priests were to celebrate mass or how the entire Order was to pray the Liturgy of the Hours. To this day the friars do not chant the liturgy of the hours, they recite it. They use reverent hymns in Latin or local languages.

There have been two encyclicals on St. Francis and in both the Church proclaims him to be the perfect imitation of Christ, the most perfect Christian and the most perfect Catholic.

If we look at someone like him, we can safely believe that what you’re saying is 100% true. Reverence is in the soul of the believer. Gestures, music, art, clothing and other things help promote reverence. Therefore they are good.

But we cannot be so rigid as to say that they are the only good. This is not the mind of the Church. If this were the mind of the Church, it would never have approved of the movement of St. Francis and his order. His order would not be around today. It would have fallen under its own weight.

Other movements would not have been born, such as the Vincentian movement. I’ll never forget the writings of Vincent de Paul to Louise de Marillac where he prohibits the use of a habit and veil. He also prohibits the sistes from becoming religious. They were to be seculars in temporary vows so that they could preserve their freedom to live on the streets of Paris serving Christ in the poor. They were to attend any mass in the local parish, reverent or not, because the source of their strength and the vitality of their sould came from the Eucharist and their interior disposition to see and serve Christ in the poor.

Vicent’s defintion of reverence was based on the soul’s disposition to see and serve Christ. The Eucharist was the summit of love where Christ was adored and where the Daughters received the nourishment they needed to serve the poor. For Vincent, the reverence of the Eucharist consisted in an interior disposition to find Christ in the Eucharist and take him to the streets among the poor. For Francis, reverence for the Eucharist consisted in seeing Christ’s passion on the cross and his incarnation in the Eucharist. Both of these great men found gestures and ways to stimulate this reverence that were consistent with the mission that Christ entrusted to the Church.

That is true reverence. To find Christ in the Eucharist and to bring him to the world.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[catharina]

You have reminded me of when our holy father Francis founded our order. Originally the Order was an order of brothers. Some diocesan priests, seeing the holiness of Francis asked to join the Order and were admitted. As the years passed more priests joined the ranks of the Brothers. Yes Brothers, Francis never called anyone Father except himself, even though he was never a priest. But that’s another story.

The priests who joined the Order brought with them the Benedictine tradition of Gregorian chant. One day Francis decided that the tradition did not unify the fraternity, but divided it because Gregorian chant required a great deal of taining to be sung correctly. It also required that the Brothers could chant. And it required that all the Brothers new how to read the notation. As Superior General he decided that the Brothers would no longer use Gregorian Chant at mass or during the Liturgy of the Hours. Also they would not use any of the forms that were traditional monastic gestures for celebrating the liturgies of the mass or the hours.

Anyway, there were other forms of music in Latin and Italian that were very reverent. Francis himself was a musician and a poet, so he wrote some music and hymns for the Brothers to use in liturgy. He wrote them in Italian and some in Latin, mostly in Italian. They came to be known as Laudas from the Italian word meaning “praises”.

Church has proclaimed that no man has ever achieved the perfection of the Gospel as well as Francis of Assisi. Therefore, I can’t imagine someone calling Francis irreverent in his decisions regarding how the Brother priests were to celebrate mass or how the entire Order was to pray the Liturgy of the Hours. To this day the friars do not chant the liturgy of the hours, they recite it. They use reverent hymns in Latin or local languages.

There have been two encyclicals on St. Francis and in both the Church proclaims him to be the perfect imitation of Christ, the most perfect Christian and the most perfect Catholic.

If we look at someone like him, we can safely believe that what you’re saying is 100% true. Reverence is in the soul of the believer. Gestures, music, art, clothing and other things help promote reverence. Therefore they are good.

But we cannot be so rigid as to say that they are the only good. This is not the mind of the Church. If this were the mind of the Church, it would never have approved of the movement of St. Francis and his order. His order would not be around today. It would have fallen under its own weight.

Other movements would not have been born, such as the Vincentian movement. I’ll never forget the writings of Vincent de Paul to Louise de Marillac where he prohibits the use of a habit and veil. He also prohibits the sistes from becoming religious. They were to be seculars in temporary vows so that they could preserve their freedom to live on the streets of Paris serving Christ in the poor. They were to attend any mass in the local parish, reverent or not, because the source of their strength and the vitality of their sould came from the Eucharist and their interior disposition to see and serve Christ in the poor.

Vicent’s defintion of reverence was based on the soul’s disposition to see and serve Christ. The Eucharist was the summit of love where Christ was adored and where the Daughters received the nourishment they needed to serve the poor. For Vincent, the reverence of the Eucharist consisted in an interior disposition to find Christ in the Eucharist and take him to the streets among the poor. For Francis, reverence for the Eucharist consisted in seeing Christ’s passion on the cross and his incarnation in the Eucharist. Both of these great men found gestures and ways to stimulate this reverence that were consistent with the mission that Christ entrusted to the Church.

That is true reverence. To find Christ in the Eucharist and to bring him to the world.

Fraternally,

JR

Beautiful reflections on the Eucharist in the lives of Francis of Assisi and Vincent de Paul. Thank you, JR.

 

[brigid12]

I don’t think reverently offered Latin masses of the ordinary form are rare at all. I just think some people, especially in this forum, like to nitpick and see problems where none exist.

Unfortunately, Latin NOs are apparently not near as common here in the US as in Japan. I know that at this time there is still only the one indult TLM in this entire archdiocese (about the size of Japan, I believe). Although Latin NOs are not as well publically publicized, I do know that the one I assisted at had people coming from a couple hours away each way and as far as I know, is the only one in this archdiocese (again, about the size of Japan I was told once).

 

[brigid12]

Was there Gregorian Chant, incense, only altar boys, silence, did the women wear their mantillas, did you hear the bells when the Eucharist was raised, no extra ordinary eucharistic ministers. If no, than it wasn’t reverent!. Only the Divine Liturgies of the Eastern Church and the Tridentine Masses of the West have these. Hence why they are very reverent.

Actually, the Latin NO that I’ve assisted at does have all the items you list. It was wonderful!!!

 

[brigid12]

Firmly entrenched products of the 60’s still run the show, in many places.

From what I’ve seen here, that is certainly the case. Surprisingly enough, at least we don’t have the priests dressed in psychedelic vestments!!!

 

[brigid12]

Vatican II opened the door, but after the Council, no one stood guard at that door. The majority of Latin and Gregorian chant, as Pope Paul VI laments here, are being “lost”. Latin and Gregorian chant are on life support; these traditions weren’t “built upon” so much as they were “swept under the rug” and hidden from view so that new things could have prominence not due them.

Along with the increase in speed of communication comes the increase in speed of miscommunication. How many Catholics have been told blatant lies about the documents (and spirit) of Vatican II? How many Catholics have been told that Trent doesn’t matter anymore? People – and sadly, some ordained men – lied about this stuff.

Some people involved in the liturgical reform that resulted in Mass of Paul VI do think doctrine was involved. (See the attached images, which are two consecutive pages from A Challenging Reform by Piero Marini.)

I think the identity of the Church, within the Roman Rite, has suffered because of the growing independence of bishops and conferences of bishops. At a Mass I attended a few weeks ago, the priest, making up his own Eucharistic Prayer, did not say “with Benedict, our Pope”, but “with Benedict, Bishop of Rome”. That is not legitimate. That is an affront to the papacy. That is pride. That is a mistaken identity.

And yet Annibale Bugnini is reported to have said that all the Consilium needed was five years. And in 1969, six years after the Constitution was promulgated, poof, new order of the Mass.

The best place to start is the documents themselves, then. In their original Latin and with an honest, unbiased translation into whatever vernacular you prefer.

I do indeed pray for patience and peace and inner calm and silence.

I will do penance and I will act, and I will pray God is with me in my actions, because otherwise, whatever I do is in vain.

Surely God will not reward those who kept silent, at the urging of bishops, about the sexual misconduct of priests! That was danger to their souls! I would guess that some Catholics feel likewise – that their souls are in danger – about attending the Ordinary Form of the Mass, because of abuses and irregularities, and also because of the content often preached at it.

 

[bkovacs]

Those are very narrow criteria for reverence.

I just came back tonight from an Ordinary Form mass that was very reverently celebrated. There was not Greogiran chant, because our friars do not use Gregorian chant. They never have. There were parts in Latin and parts in Enlglish. I have no idea who wore a mantilla and who didn’t because I was not paying attention to that. I was paying attention to the liturgy.

We did have female altar servers and that didn’t distract or bother me in the least, because they were doing what they are supposed to be doing and they did it well.

We always have the bells. Though I have gotten so used to them that I don’t hear them anymore. I’m more focussed on what’s going on at the altar and on the mysticism of the liturgy and the event.

We had extraordinary ministers, because only three of our friars are priests, the other four are not We had six friars distribute communion. One of them is the Major Superior happens to be a theologian, but is not priest. Again, that does not take away from the reverence. We love our friars and we like seeing them in the liturgy. They are a wonderful example of reverence when they are there for liturgy with the congregation.

The homily was beautiful. The prayers and music were appropriate for the day and the order of the mass flowed seamlessly from beginning to end as prescribed in the rubrics.

At the consecration the Brother Mario’s concentration and time on what he was doing was very inspirational.

Yes we always have quiet times during the liturgy, especially after the proclamation of the Gospel, the homily, and communion. We’ve always had that in our parish. Our friars are very contemplative and their spirit of contemplation is contageous, as is their spirit of joy in celebrating the Eucharist.

Since this was the evening mass, the friars always integrate the Liturgy of the Hours with the evening mass and the morning mass, but that’s allowed to mendicant and monastic orders. Our bishop, who is a secular priest, is very clear that he wants the religious in his diocese to incorporate their traditions into the liturgy where they are allowed and into all the celebrations of the sacraments and the Liturgy of the Hours. He has often said that the biggest blessing in his dioceese is the diversity of religious charisms in the parishes.

I believe that reverent is a liturgy that reflects the spirit of Christ and the love between God and man. It is an event where the mystery of the cross is very visible as well as the adoration of the faithful.

This was a very special mass, because we just received a new Brother in the parish and it was his first mass for our parish. That’s always an occasion of great joy, even though we lost a Brother, because he was transferred to the missions. He’ll be missed. But it looks like Brother Mario will do fine. He’s an excellent preacher, a deeply prayerful man and has a reputation for being a very holy man. It’s hard not to have a reverent mass with such a priest.

Fraternally,

JR

The Franciscans. The only mendicant order I know of that is exempt from Gregorian Chant, Latin Mass, or any thing that has anything to do with pre-vatican 2. The Benedictines, Carmelites, and Dominicans on the other hand are all starting to learn Gregorian Chant again for the future. Since it has pride of place in all liturgical music of the Roman Rite.

saintleoabbey.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=140&Itemid=9

carmelitemonks.org/

newliturgicalmovement.org/2006/11/dominican-rite-summary.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communities_Using_the_Tridentine_Mass

 

[EasterJoy]

You have reminded me of when our holy father Francis founded our order. Originally the Order was an order of brothers. Some diocesan priests, seeing the holiness of Francis asked to join the Order and were admitted. As the years passed more priests joined the ranks of the Brothers. Yes Brothers, Francis never called anyone Father except himself, even though he was never a priest. But that’s another story.

The priests who joined the Order brought with them the Benedictine tradition of Gregorian chant. One day Francis decided that the tradition did not unify the fraternity, but divided it because Gregorian chant required a great deal of taining to be sung correctly. It also required that the Brothers could chant. And it required that all the Brothers new how to read the notation. As Superior General he decided that the Brothers would no longer use Gregorian Chant at mass or during the Liturgy of the Hours. Also they would not use any of the forms that were traditional monastic gestures for celebrating the liturgies of the mass or the hours.

Anyway, there were other forms of music in Latin and Italian that were very reverent. Francis himself was a musician and a poet, so he wrote some music and hymns for the Brothers to use in liturgy. He wrote them in Italian and some in Latin, mostly in Italian. They came to be known as Laudas from the Italian word meaning “praises”.

Church has proclaimed that no man has ever achieved the perfection of the Gospel as well as Francis of Assisi. Therefore, I can’t imagine someone calling Francis irreverent in his decisions regarding how the Brother priests were to celebrate mass or how the entire Order was to pray the Liturgy of the Hours. To this day the friars do not chant the liturgy of the hours, they recite it. They use reverent hymns in Latin or local languages.

There have been two encyclicals on St. Francis and in both the Church proclaims him to be the perfect imitation of Christ, the most perfect Christian and the most perfect Catholic.

If we look at someone like him, we can safely believe that what you’re saying is 100% true. Reverence is in the soul of the believer. Gestures, music, art, clothing and other things help promote reverence. Therefore they are good.

But we cannot be so rigid as to say that they are the only good. This is not the mind of the Church. If this were the mind of the Church, it would never have approved of the movement of St. Francis and his order. His order would not be around today. It would have fallen under its own weight.

Other movements would not have been born, such as the Vincentian movement. I’ll never forget the writings of Vincent de Paul to Louise de Marillac where he prohibits the use of a habit and veil. He also prohibits the sistes from becoming religious. They were to be seculars in temporary vows so that they could preserve their freedom to live on the streets of Paris serving Christ in the poor. They were to attend any mass in the local parish, reverent or not, because the source of their strength and the vitality of their sould came from the Eucharist and their interior disposition to see and serve Christ in the poor.

Vicent’s defintion of reverence was based on the soul’s disposition to see and serve Christ. The Eucharist was the summit of love where Christ was adored and where the Daughters received the nourishment they needed to serve the poor. For Vincent, the reverence of the Eucharist consisted in an interior disposition to find Christ in the Eucharist and take him to the streets among the poor. For Francis, reverence for the Eucharist consisted in seeing Christ’s passion on the cross and his incarnation in the Eucharist. Both of these great men found gestures and ways to stimulate this reverence that were consistent with the mission that Christ entrusted to the Church.

That is true reverence. To find Christ in the Eucharist and to bring him to the world.

Fraternally,

JR

I like to think of the OF and the EF as being centers of different charisms in the Mass, gifts of the same Holy Spirit. Just as we do not do honor to the Trappists by putting down the Franciscans, or vice versa, we don’t honor the great reverence that can be evoked with the traditional accoutrements by putting down forms the Mass that seek to express reverence in other ways. That isn’t to say it doesn’t matter how Mass is celebrated. It does matter. It is to say, though, that among the reverent ways to do it, there is a huge range of differences.

What we should tolerate is not indifference or irreverence. We should speak to these things. But we do well to tolerate and learn to appreciate true reverence that is different from our own, for every reverently offered Mass is to the greater good of the entire Church.

 

[crm114]

My thanks to the many who answered the original question with charity. As many have suggested, the Mass can, of course, be offered with reverent intent in any form and in any translation.

Perhaps I did not correctly phrase the question. Perhaps I should have said, in light of the fact that the ICEL translation of the NO (OF) intentionally omits language of sanctity, formality, and reverence, why is not the normative (Latin) NO Mass not more often offered, as a more sacral form for the benefit of those of the people who are attached to such things?

 

[JReducation]

The Franciscans. The only mendicant order I know of that is exempt from Gregorian Chant, Latin Mass, or any thing that has anything to do with pre-vatican 2. The Benedictines, Carmelites, and Dominicans on the other hand are all starting to learn Gregorian Chant again for the future. Since it has pride of place in all liturgical music of the Roman Rite.

saintleoabbey.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=140&Itemid=9

carmelitemonks.org/

newliturgicalmovement.org/2006/11/dominican-rite-summary.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communities_Using_the_Tridentine_Mass

There is a misunderstanding here. The Franciscan family is not exempt from anything pre-Vatican II. In fact they were ordered by the Vatican to return to their roots which go back to the Lateran Council. The exemptions of today were not exemptions in their time. They were considered an ordinary part of their life and prayer.

The reason they did not adopt Gregorian chant from their beginnings was because it was part of the monastic life. In monastic life during the 13th century there was a distinction between the choir monks and the lay brothers. To our holy father Francis his brothers were equal and they responded to the call to live the Gospel in obedience, without property, in chastity and in brotherhood. This was their life and they were to preserve their brotherhood as a source of grace and support.

In fact, their preservation of the mass and liturgy of the hours without Gregorian chant is actually part of the tradition of the Church. Our entire family was and still is an itinerant order, not a choral order. Our life of prayer has to be simple enough to bring all our brothers and sisters to pray as one family, these include friars, contemplative nuns, secular franciscans in private vows, secular clergy, secular Franciscans in public vows, sisters and religious brothers. This is an extremely large family of over one million with an 800 year history and a stong role in the the Church.

As to the liturgy, Francis always focussed on hearing the Gospel and living it, seeing and receiving the Incarnate Son of God and adoring God the most high good through the liturgy of the mass and the liturgy of the hours.

These traditons predate Vatican II. They are consistent with the tradition of the Church. The format of the mass or the liturgy of the hours may differ from that of other Orders because it always has. That’s why the Order has a Roman-Franciscan Missal and Roman-Franciscan Breviary with Roman-Franciscan rubrics given to them by Pope Innocent III and renewed by Paul VI.

Hope this helps with anything that may look or sound confusing.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[bkovacs]

Some very beautiful Chant during a Liturgy.
youtube.com/watch?v=u7g3hUV0oR4

 

[bkovacs]

youtube.com/watch?v=hP4rPnMWLBs

How about some Greek!.

 

[Tsuwano]

Unfortunately, Latin NOs are apparently not near as common here in the US as in Japan. I know that at this time there is still only the one indult TLM in this entire archdiocese (about the size of Japan, I believe). Although Latin NOs are not as well publically publicized, I do know that the one I assisted at had people coming from a couple hours away each way and as far as I know, is the only one in this archdiocese (again, about the size of Japan I was told once).

In Japan it is not that uncommon for Catholics to travel more than an hour each sunday to attend any mass at all. The number of Christians in Japan is so few and churches so separate, that if you really want to practice your faith, you have to sacrifice.