Why Are So Many "Born Again" as Protestants?

[Fiat]

EA_Man:

Does that description by Luke exempt them from the need of a Savior? Or have “all sinned and fallen short”?

Paul also referred to himself as being “faultless” with respect to “legalistic righteousness”. (Philippians 3:6) But what does he say about the Law? Does he say that the Law can save? No.

Since Scripture cannot contradict itself, which is it? Can you avoid the Cross by adhereing to the Law?

Peace

And herein lies part of the problem. Faith alone subscribers can’t make a distinction between the law of the Spirit and the law of the Old Covenant, but they somehow make a distinction between righteousness even though the righteousness of Job and Elisabeth and Zecharias is described in no uncertain terms in scripture and is measured by how well they walk in the commands of God. Each of these three individuals were also able to accomplish this righteousness in an era in which Dispensationalists would deny there was grace. Also, throughout the book of Job, God allows Satan to have free reins with Job, and even still Job didn’t commit a sin, did he?

Peace
Fiat

 

[itsjustdave1988]

The term “Born Again” is just the term we use for the time we made the conscious decision to follow Christ.

Ya see, that’s the entire point… Catholics believe the Biblical meaning of “born again” differs from your meaning.

For a Catholic, being “born again” is to be born from above. It is not something we do, but something God does in us. This can be done in the womb, as happened with John the Baptist, who lept for joy in the womb when filled with the Holy Spirit.

Thus, being born again IS to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. It IS NOT something “we made”, but something God made.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

**“born again” - **from the Greek:

http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~fisher/tmpdir/gnt/W2052055.gif
<A-1,Verb,1080,gennao>
“to beget,” in the Passive Voice, “to be born,” … It is used metaphorically (a) in the writings of the Apostle John, of the gracious act of God in conferring upon those who believe the nature and disposition of “children,” imparting to them spiritual life, John 3:3,5,7; 1 John 2:29; 3:9; 4:7; 5:1,4,18;
http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~fisher/tmpdir/gnt/W2282318.gif
<4,509,anothen>
“from above,” is used of place…of things which come from heaven, or from God in Heaven…It is also used in the sense of “again.”

If you understand being “born from above” as not being a single event in time but what it truly is, the gracious act of God in conferring upon the faithful, the grace which comes from heaven, then this isn’t just a one-time event, but a continuous gift of grace.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

It’s something I’ve often wondered about. Whenever I speak with someone who talks about faith, they always talk about being “Christian”, yet when I ask what denomination, the answer is invariably non-demoninational or some Protestant branch. What gives?

My experience is that those who claim “non-denominational” aren’t all that loyal to any theology but their own private opinion, which changes in the wind.

Are there many people who find God via the Catholic Church?

Yes, all those who find God in the true sense of the word, do so via the Catholic Church, even if only implicitly and unconsciously joined to the Catholic Church.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

more times than not, Born Again Christians are some sort of Protestant/Non-Denominational sect.

It must be wonderful being the only one other than God who can truly know who is and who is not in a state of grace.

I for one believe nobody can presume to know the mind of God on such matters, who alone can judge who is and who is not His own.

 

[La_Chiara]

buffalo:

Catch the part here about Practical Protestantism from This Rock Magazine

Making Converts of Cradle Catholics

Practical Protestantism

more…

buffalo–Totally awesome article. Thank you so much for posting it.

 

[kp1]

EA_Man:

Wow, talk about misrepresenting being “born again”!

You would think that people recognizing that they were sinners and turning to Jesus for forgiveness would be a cause for celebration.

Peace

I am not trying to start anything here! I do understand they must admit they are sinners, but they never have to admit “what sin” or ask forgivness of “what sin” or repent of “what sin”.

I have a dear friend who is “Born Again” who admitted to me to have committed adultry amongst other things. During our heart to heart I asked her if she ever was afraid that we have not done enough for those sins we have committed in our lives(like go to confession enough, pray enough, etc). She said it has no effect because all she just had to say she was a sinner and Jesus will bring her to Heaven. She never had to admit to anyone, even her spouse, what she did. She never had to repent for her sins to cleanse her soul. She thinks that no matter what she does for the rest of her life, she is still going to Heaven even though her soul is unclean. You might say her confession to me should count, but I am no ordained priest, and she has committed some very grave mortal sins. I love her dearly as my friend, but the topic of spirituality is not easily discussed. She does not believe in Purgatory, Penance, or anything associated with saints. She told me talking to Mary was usless because “Mary is dead”. She does not follow the papacy or any doctrinal points.

OK I am starting to ramble, but the point is they do have it easier than the Roman Catholics. We have a lot of rules, but the rules are there for a reason. She never seeked forgiveness, she only had to admit she is a sinner.

I do admit that turning to Jesus in the correct form (ie many sects denounce the Trinity) is good and it is better to have something than nothing! But if you want to be fully correct, then you need to follow Rome! The papacy keeps us from damaging Jesus’ Church! It is difficult to follow the Roman Catholic Church, but when has God’s will been easy?

So I still stand behind what I said about being “Born Again” is easy! Compared to Catholicism it is easy! Please read Keatings Fundamentalism verses Romanism. It is very enlightening to those who do not have a Fundamentalist in their immediate circle of friends. Yes, many but not all “Born Again” Christians are Fundamentalists.

 

[kp1]

EA-Man you are also missing the point of Jesus dying on the cross to be the ultimate sacrifice before God. The sacrifices where done in the old temple only by the high rabbis because us ordinary folks were unworthy to be near God. Jesus death did many things, one being the end of these temple sacrifices. Another was to remove the seperation of us from God. Jesus was the ONLY sacrifice worthy enough to ammend for all of mankinds’ sins since Eden. It was to open the doors to Heaven for those who’s souls are pure. For nothing unclean can enter Heaven.

The question is how do you define unclean? Where were all those souls before Jesus opened the gates to Heaven? And how do you explain a “Born Again” who will still commit one of the seven deadly (mortal) sins and not beg forgivness because their fate is “already sealed”?

 

[Anna_Elizabeth]

O.S. Luke:

I applaud the Catholic Church for its seminaries emphasizing homiletics… I’ve heard some pretty good sermons from Catholic priests of late, which gets the Word and the Table on a more equal plane.O+

Would you please explain that statement? I got cold chills when I read it, and so am hoping I misunderstood it.

Anna

 

[ComradeAndrei]

What can be added to Christ’s sacrifice to justify someone (make them righteous) in God’s sight? What act can be performed that will make them righteous? The answer is none. If I’m wrong please provide the act or acts that accomplish the completion of our justification

Well, for starters, we have Philippians 2:12: “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, **work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” **

Why, praytell, would we have to *work out * our own salvation in “fear and trembling” if we are just across the board saved?

What we do, what we believe, how we live certainly has an effect on our salvation. The true insult to Christ’s sacrifice is to just presume on His Mercy and assume you are saved without participating in the Sacraments and following His Church like He commanded us to do.

 

[EA_Man]

ComradeAndrei:

Well, for starters, we have Philippians 2:12: “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, **work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” **

Why, praytell, would we have to *work out *our own salvation in “fear and trembling” if we are just across the board saved?

What we do, what we believe, how we live certainly has an effect on our salvation. The true insult to Christ’s sacrifice is to just presume on His Mercy and assume you are saved without participating in the Sacraments and following His Church like He commanded us to do.

You’ve left out a critical verse here:

“For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” Philippians 2:13

This isn’t a passage on being saved or how to be saved.
Paul is writing to BELIEVERS - THEY ARE SAVED.
Paul is telling them to work out what God has worked in. Let God have complete control.

He writes similarly to the Ephesians:

“For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” (Eph. 2:8-10)

We are saved by God’s grace, received through our faith. We are supposed to live IN God’s grace, BY FAITH as well! And if we do, then it is UNTO GOOD WORKS. The works are the by-product of grace received and faith in Jesus Christ.

Peace

 

[EA_Man]

kp1:

but they never have to admit “what sin” or ask forgivness of “what sin” or repent of “what sin”.

Regarding being saved; there is only one sin that we need to repent of - it is the Sin of Unbelief.

Once we repent of unbelief, we are saved. Why?
Because the way that you repent of Unbelief is to BELIEVE.

What are we supposed to think, that we need to remember every single time we had an impure thought and that if we don’t we can’t REALLY repent?

kp1:

We have a lot of rules, but the rules are there for a reason. She never seeked forgiveness, she only had to admit she is a sinner.

Luke 18:11-15

The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men “robbers, evildoers, adulterers” or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

kp1:

I do admit that turning to Jesus in the correct form is good and it is better to have something than nothing! But if you want to be fully correct, then you need to follow Rome! The papacy keeps us from damaging Jesus’ Church! It is difficult to follow the Roman Catholic Church, but when has God’s will been easy?

“Turning to Jesus…is better than nothing”??

I can’t agree with your statement on the papacy, but that’s another thread.

Regarding you friend and her adultery; how did Jesus handle that situation?

Peace