Why are so many cradle Catholics leaving the Church?

[HappyPerson]

1. Got mad because the Church won’t ordain women, and left.

Yes, some “liberated” women have an issue with this. Those are the same type of women whose husbands will have an issue with THEM.

Sadly, a good friend of mine once dated a woman who used that as an excuse for leaving the Catholic Church. She managed to Delilah him right out of the Church, too, at least from my perspective.

Thus, another evil of the “women’s movement.” Not only does it break up families, and arguably increase male fascination with violent pornography, but it also leads people out of the Church.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Well, the whole, “Don’t eat meat on lenten Fridays or you will go to Hell,” thing was pushed, in my opinion, more than, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourselves,” at least from the perception of some people of my generation. (Hence choice 10.) Sure; Advent wreathes, talking about Our Lady of Lourdes, and talking about Our Lady of Fatima have their place, but not in lieux of the more essential Apostolic Capital T. Traditions of the faith. Our kids aren’t learning the basics. I would imagine most kids who receive Confirmation have no idea what the Sacrament is about, just that it is graduation from CCD.

I’m not sure what kids you’ve been speaking to, and I take your word for it that such has been the case among them, but I don’t see how changing the language of the Mass to a language they DON’T KNOW could possibly benefit them.

But we do have to obey the Lenten fast. Why blow it off or dismiss it as insignificant, since it’s part of the Truth of the Church?

 

[HappyPerson]

But we do have to obey the Lenten fast. Why blow it off or dismiss it as insignificant, since it’s part of the Truth of the Church?

It is not a Universal teaching, but is limited to certain archdioceses, mostly in the West, in my understanding. It is a mere small t. tradition of man, so small t., that it even gets annulled in some archdioceses when St. Patrick’s Day interferes with it. That doesn’t mean that we ignore it, but it does mean that there are other things that are far more important and deserve far more stress.

 

[Pro_Domina]

Holy priests, holy people.

 

[sharmin]

I still say prove it.

Sounds like the typical anti-Catholic swill the media bombards us with.

Well, my friend is a pastor of an evangelical church, and (literally) over 60% of his congregation is cradle Catholics of my generation (30s and 40s)

 

[Corki]

But we do have to obey the Lenten fast. Why blow it off or dismiss it as insignificant, since it’s part of the Truth of the Church?

It is not a Universal teaching, but is limited to certain archdioceses, mostly in the West, in my understanding.

Not to take this off topic but just to clarify, fasting during Lent (and other penetential days) is a discipline not a doctine or a teaching. It is not limited to certain diocese or archdioceses. It is a universal requirement for all diocese of the Western Church (canons 1250-1253). The Eastern Catholic Churches actually have much more extensive fasting requirements.

And yes, we are to obey the Precepts of the Church, one of which is to observe the prescribed days of fasting and abstinence.

 

[po18guy]

Several generations of American children have been leaving the Catholic Church, now, when they get older, and many who are staying don’t know their faith. Something SEEMS to be seriously wrong with the way the message of Jesus Christ and His Church is being portrayed to the children, by the Church. I started this poll to get ideas of what we can do, as a Church to keep people here, and NOT to criticize the Church. CONSTRUCTIVE feedback would be grately appreciated.

In your poll, you were on the right track when you mentioned Catechesis. I believe it is a failure of catechesis on both of our parts, clergy and laity, to zealously inculturate the succeeding generations into the faith. The human mind tends to tire of, and wanders from from nearly any pursuit which it does not, cannot, or will not understand. And if a generation does not understand the faith, it will seek simpler pursuits, just as it seems to be seeking simpler theology. Combine this with a culture that is deteriorating as rapidly as technology advances, and it conspires against the propagation of the faith.

This world currently knows not what to believe, and is beginning to believe in anything. The human mind seeks a foundation and direction for its thought processes. The concept of strongly held beliefs, of moral absolutes, is inherently attractive, and such ideas will take root. However, this has a down side, as can be seen in radical Islam, which also has rights and wrongs and strongly held beliefs. What Islam appears to lack is an affinity for love, for which the human heart has the greatest capacity.

This is reversible, but it may take several generations.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Well, my friend is a pastor of an evangelical church, and (literally) over 60% of his congregation is cradle Catholics of my generation (30s and 40s)

With all due respect, and not to suggest this isn’t true, third and fourth party anecdotal statements do not constitute proof.

 

[sharmin]

With all due respect, and not to suggest this isn’t true, third and fourth party anecdotal statements do not constitute proof.

Well, I wasn’t offering as “proof”. It is true, though, as I know many members of his congregation and nearly all of those that I know are former Catholics. It’s crazy.

 

[HappyPerson]

Not to take this off topic but just to clarify, fasting during Lent (and other penetential days) is a discipline not a doctine or a teaching. It is not limited to certain diocese or archdioceses. It is a universal requirement for all diocese of the Western Church (canons 1250-1253). The Eastern Catholic Churches actually have much more extensive fasting requirements.

And yes, we are to obey the Precepts of the Church, one of which is to observe the prescribed days of fasting and abstinence.

Thank you for clarifying this. Just to further clarify, am I correct in saying that discipline = malleable small t. tradition?

 

[HappyPerson]

Well, my friend is a pastor of an evangelical church, and (literally) over 60% of his congregation is cradle Catholics of my generation (30s and 40s)

This suggests that the Catholic Church does succeed in instilling an innate desire for God into the hearts of these generations, but is somehow not properly cultivating it. I think it comes down to the fact that we need to place greater stress on INDIVIDUAL reading of the Bible, and less on the small t. traditions.

The first thing we need to show from the Bible, however, is the authority of the Catholic Church, and the fact that while we stress individual reading of the Bible, we must clarify that individuals do NOT have the right to declare strange doctrines based on their own individual comprehension skills when applied to the Bible. We need to establish FROM THE BIBLE, and history, that the Church is above the Bible.

 

[sharmin]

This suggests that the Catholic Church does succeed in instilling an innate desire for God into the hearts of these generations, but is somehow not properly cultivating it. I think it comes down to the fact that we need to place greater stress on INDIVIDUAL reading of the Bible, and less on the small t. traditions.

I agree.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I agree.

Yeah, well, let’s not become heretics while we’re doing it. We have the fullness of truth, brought to us by the teachings of the Magisterium among other things.

 

[JKS]

Many of the people I know that left the Church, left because of an abusive priest. There’s an entire generation missing from my childhood parish; there are very few women who are now in their 40’s there, that grew up in the parish.

Also, what about cry rooms and nurseries? Why are so many parishes unwelcoming to new parents? “Get out of the nave with that child! Go into that room off the vestibule!” I’ve seen several threads on CAF where lots of people soft pedal the weekly Mass obligation because of kids who make noise. It’s VERY easy to get in the habit of not going to Mass every week, because you have kids who can’t behave perfectly. I realize that it’s not a mortal sin to keep a child home from time to time, but what kind of message is that sending to the parents, just when they’re ready to be better Catholics? (From our own experience: we were twice-a-month Catholics until I got pregnant w/ #1, then immediately realized that we needed to be good examples to our children and have met our Sunday obligation ever since). I can’t extrapolate to the rest of the nation, but I have noticed this in the various parishes we’ve belonged to. Cry rooms are awful places, and they make me feel like a second-class parishioner. (The hypocrisy is not lost on us, either, that our parish is pro-life only until the no-longer-mute child is an inconvenience to the parishioners.) So I’ve been wondering lately: how many people leave because of cry rooms, and the general hostility toward people at Mass with babies?

For the doubters: I have read at least two polls that indicated that while Catholicism is the largest denomination in the US, former Catholics would constitute the second-largest, if you lumped them together as a denomination.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Please define the term ‘abusive’ priest, and provide statistics.

 

[JKS]

Please define the term ‘abusive’ priest,fondled me and many other girls. and provide statistics. no statistics, just people that I know from my childhood

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Sorry to hear that, but many posts on this thread have begun to sound like heretical and typical Catholic-bashing: abusive priests, non-friendly congregations, ‘outmoded’ teaching, and so on.

 

[HappyPerson]

many posts on this thread have begun to sound like heretical and typical Catholic-bashing: abusive priests, non-friendly congregations, ‘outmoded’ teaching, and so on.

Are you perhaps adding those thoughts in to your interpretations of what people are writing? I understand that we are often put on the defensive against outsider attacks to our Faith, but I feel that generally the people who have responded on this thread are devout Catholics who are willing to take a step back and look at what we as a Church can do better, WITHOUT compromising the Faith or any absolute Truths contained therein.

When in doubt as to the intentions of something someone posted, I find that paragraph 2478 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church is a good rule to follow. By properly doing so, by God’s grace, we can make a world of difference in how we view others.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

My back is still wet from my swim, but I don’t like attacks on orthodoxy coupled with suppositions about cradle Catholics ‘leaving the church in droves,’ no matter who asserts it.

 

[JKS]

Sorry to hear that, but many posts on this thread have begun to sound like heretical and typical Catholic-bashing: abusive priests, non-friendly congregations, ‘outmoded’ teaching, and so on.

I only gave my personal experiences, except for the well-known problem of the huge number of former Catholics. If you disagree with the premise of the thread, this might not be the best use of your energy. Since you aren’t a cradle Catholic, I guess you haven’t seen large numbers of your family and fellow parishioners leave the Church, but why would you doubt that we have?? I’m sorry it makes you unhappy that the Church Militant has some problems, but shooting the messenger doesn’t fix it; it won’t “just go away” unless/until we all leave the Church.