Why are so many cradle Catholics leaving the Church?

[ThyKingdomCome]

As my pastor recently told me, “Catechesis was so bad that your generation was taught to be Methodists at best.” In other words, we were not taught the aspects of our faith tat make us uniquely Catholic, just a lot of “God loves you” “You are special” “Be nice” and no real doctrine. In these cases, the teaching was so useless that when these people grow up, they don’t have any reasons to stay in the Church. For them, Catholicism is no different from any other “be nice” philosophy, so why stay. And if there is no such thing as hell (because we were taught that being nice and trying are what get you in to heaven), then why bother to follow all these rules and worry about things like mortal sin.

In the more harmful CCD classes, we were specifically taught that our religion was just one myth among many, and that not only do we not HAVE to believe the more challenging doctrines of the Church, but the Church hierarchy is wrong, and will eventually change them. Why on earth would anyone stay in a religion that they are taught is being led by people in error?

So it all comes down to Catechesis. The reason for all that awful catechesis is probably more complicated. I think it was largely a combination of well educated fervent people with an agenda (of liberalizing the Church), people who understandable felt that their own catechesis was too “fire and brimstone” and swung the pendulum too far the other way, along with misinformed less fervent Catholics who felt like they were given permission (by the above mentioned) to not pass on a strict faith to their children.

 

[HappyRevert]

I personally left the church because of a combination of poor catechesis (still unsure if it was taught and I missed it or if it just wasn’t presented properly) and a lack of understanding of the personal relationship (I know it sounds protestant) with Jesus.

I truly believe if people understood and I mean really understood that the Eucharist is the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ, they would flock back to the church. I personally struggle with how to pass this onto my children (19, 17, 15 & 9) both as factual information and an emotional understanding of that truth. Some are receptive and some are not, but my husband and I keep involved in the Church and encourage their participation in those things not mandatory. I would love to hear from more people in their early 20’s about what keeps them in the faith, or what would have helped.

 

[kage_ar]

I curious about something that other young posters have posted in various threads on this forum. Perhaps you would be willing to add your (name removed by moderator)ut.

Do you believe that teenagers would be more interested in Mass if the “Traditional” Mass was done, instead of the OF? It seems that teenagers on this forum think that teens want to hear the Latin Mass, the Latin songs, chants, etc.–the more traditional the better.

They believe that innovations like “Life Teen” and “modern music” and “youth ministers” actually drive the teenagers away from the Church.

Although I agree that some teenagers are interested in tradition in the Mass, I personally think that this approach would NOT make most teenagers become more interested in attending Mass. I think it would drive even more teenagers away from the Church.

What is your feeling on this? Thanks.

I have in captivity a long haired, head banging, guitar shredding teen.

He would rather cut his ears off than listen to “modern music” at Mass. The more traditional the better are his words.

 

[Brenda_V]

To answer the OP, there are as many reasons why someone would leave HMC as there are grains of sand on the beach. Having said that, the biggest problem is poor catechesis coupled with a rebellion of sorts in some people, look at how many reverts we have.

I have in captivity a long haired, head banging, guitar shredding teen.

He would rather cut his ears off than listen to “modern music” at Mass. The more traditional the better are his words.

Now your son and I am sure other teens recognize the fact that going to Mass should take them out of this world and give them a piece of Heaven here on Earth so they can go out into the world refreshed and ready to live life to its fullest in the best Catholic Christian way possible. This means that Mass should be different from the every day world.

Brenda V.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

You still have to convince me that CCs are leaving the Church, BUT…

for argument’s sake, if they are, if can only be because they are NOT being taught Orthodoxy. I thought my RCIA class was bad due to the fact that they wasted time blaming Dubya for everything, rather than actually instructing us how to pray the Rosary, the true meaning of the Mass, the reality of Heaven and Hell, and what the Creed stands for.

Perhaps CCs, too, have been exposed to such ‘teachings.’

 

[mary_bobo]

You still have to convince me that CCs are leaving the Church, BUT…

for argument’s sake, if they are, if can only be because they are NOT being taught Orthodoxy. I thought my RCIA class was bad due to the fact that they wasted time blaming Dubya for everything, rather than actually instructing us how to pray the Rosary, the true meaning of the Mass, the reality of Heaven and Hell, and what the Creed stands for.

Perhaps CCs, too, have been exposed to such ‘teachings.’

If that kind of thing happened at the RCIA that I am a part of, I would raise holy Cain. That sort of thing has no place in RCIA instructions.

 

[HappyPerson]

Do you believe that teenagers would be more interested in Mass if the “Traditional” Mass was done, instead of the OF? It seems that teenagers on this forum think that teens want to hear the Latin Mass, the Latin songs, chants, etc.–the more traditional the better.

They believe that innovations like “Life Teen” and “modern music” and “youth ministers” actually drive the teenagers away from the Church.

Although I agree that some teenagers are interested in tradition in the Mass, I personally think that this approach would NOT make most teenagers become more interested in attending Mass. I think it would drive even more teenagers away from the Church.

What is your feeling on this? Thanks.

I agree with your opinion, Cat. I think a Latin Mass would seriously hurt American youth interest. Many youth have a difficult enough time understanding and appreciating the Mass in their own language, never mind in a foreign language. Think of how annoyed ADULT Catholics get when foreign priests who speak broken or otherwise unclear English say a Mass, and we can’t understand their homilies.

I think the youth innovations for youth Masses are helpful to youth. 1 Corinthians 9:19-22 shows St. Paul’s approach of meeting people where they are, WITHOUT compromising the faith, rather than forcing them to adapt to OTHER PEOPLE’S small t. traditions.

Also, when Jesus spoke of the Kingdom, he used parables/analogies that appealed to various professions, helping diverse groups of people relate to the message. (See Matthew, Chapter 13.)

For those who like the traditional Latin Mass, that’s fine, and they should have access to that. Let us remember, however that such a Mass is a small t. tradition, not a capital T. Tradition. To impose it upon people that don’t speak Latin would be placing a stumbling block in our brothers’ way, in my opinion.

 

[Cat]

I have in captivity a long haired, head banging, guitar shredding teen.

He would rather cut his ears off than listen to “modern music” at Mass. The more traditional the better are his words.

Do you think your son represents the majority of teenagers?

Also, is your son disposed to attend Mass gladly, or do you have to drag him to Mass?

 

[Harmony1988]

The media.

 

[Corki]

Several generations of American children have been leaving the Catholic Church, now, when they get older, and many who are staying don’t know their faith. Something SEEMS to be seriously wrong with the way the message of Jesus Christ and His Church is being portrayed to the children, by the Church. I started this poll to get ideas of what we can do, as a Church to keep people here, and NOT to criticize the Church. CONSTRUCTIVE feedback would be grately appreciated.

For some one who says he/she doesn’t want to criticize the Church, your choices are horribly biggoted, critical and hateful.

Obviously, my vote is “none of the above”.

The reasons Cradle Catholics are leaving depends on where they are going. In my own opinion and experience, those who go to other religions are usually victims of poor catechesis or dual religion family upbringiing. The swing toward being ecumenical (a generally good thing, if overdone) was not tempered with strong teaching about why the Catholic Church is the one true Church. If all religions are equal, in their minds, people go where they feel they will personally get the most return. These are the people you hear using phrases like “I wasn’t being fed” or “I just feel closer to God at XYZ church” or “I am so uplifted by the music and preaching at XYZ church”. :banghead:

On the other hand, a significant portion of Cradle Catholics do not go to anther religion. They just drift away or claim to be “spiritual but not religious”. For this group, sometimes there was a bad experience but more often it is just narcissism. Our culture is teaching youth that self-actualization and self-interest is the most important value. Any religion that does not emphasize that causes cognitive dissonance.

The comments above relate to the US experince. In other countries, especially Latin America there are other forces at work.

 

[Corki]

I have in captivity a long haired, head banging, guitar shredding teen.

He would rather cut his ears off than listen to “modern music” at Mass. The more traditional the better are his words.

I have two of those in “captivity” too. (except the long hair - Catholic school )

They consider it a fate worse than going shoe shopping with mom (which they hate) to have to go to the Sunday night Teen Mass.

They aren’t into the Latin Mass either, although they have attended a few. They just want real “Mass like” music with lyrics that aren’t dumbed down.

Do you think your son represents the majority of teenagers?

Also, is your son disposed to attend Mass gladly, or do you have to drag him to Mass?

I can speak for my son’s classmates and for the 9th graders I have in CCE. They hate the music that is cutsey, gimicky or too sweet. They hate middle aged people trying to tell them what is cool. They want the music and the rest of Mass to fit together.

My CCE class is a group with about 1 in 10 going to Mass regularly. One of our exercises is to listen to various types of Christian/Catholic music from chant to Christian metal and everything inbetween. While they like some of the more energetic music to just listen to, they almost unanimously prefer the melodies of the early part of the 20th century for prayer or liturgy.

 

[HappyPerson]

The Church should not amend itself to us but the other way round.

That depends on what you mean by “amend.” If you mean that the Church should not compromise Truth, then I agree with you wholeheartedly.

If, however, you are against changing small t. traditions, then I would disagree, using the Scriptures I cited in my last post.

 

[thenewmrssears]

I curious about something that other young posters have posted in various threads on this forum. Perhaps you would be willing to add your (name removed by moderator)ut.

Do you believe that teenagers would be more interested in Mass if the “Traditional” Mass was done, instead of the OF? It seems that teenagers on this forum think that teens want to hear the Latin Mass, the Latin songs, chants, etc.–the more traditional the better.

They believe that innovations like “Life Teen” and “modern music” and “youth ministers” actually drive the teenagers away from the Church.

Although I agree that some teenagers are interested in tradition in the Mass, I personally think that this approach would NOT make most teenagers become more interested in attending Mass. I think it would drive even more teenagers away from the Church.

What is your feeling on this? Thanks.

Just got back from vacation, so I apologize for my late response!

No. I do not like the non-traditional mass. I believe that part of the attraction of the Catholic Church is the structure, tradition, and long history. However, I do believe that there is a way to embrace young adults without compromising the amazingness of the Mass.

Maybe song meetings outside of Mass would be good…or just a Bible Study!

I think there are a lot of factors that detract teenagers and young adults from the Catholic Church: the sexualization of culture, the “cool” factor, time management, school, today’s music, etc etc.

It is going to take some mighty smart people and a lot of prayer to figure it all out!

 

[HappyPerson]

For some one who says he/she doesn’t want to criticize the Church, your choices are horribly biggoted, critical and hateful.

Obviously, my vote is “none of the above”.

It’s little self-righteous judgmental comments like this that show how choice seven is definitely an issue that we need to address.
It’s like, we can’t even post something on a CATHOLIC message board without another CATHOLIC jumping down our throats with an, “I’m better than you,” mentality. This is DEFINITELY something that leads people away from the Church.

 

[Cat]

Just got back from vacation, so I apologize for my late response!

No. I do not like the non-traditional mass. I believe that part of the attraction of the Catholic Church is the structure, tradition, and long history. However, I do believe that there is a way to embrace young adults without compromising the amazingness of the Mass.

Maybe song meetings outside of Mass would be good…or just a Bible Study!

I think there are a lot of factors that detract teenagers and young adults from the Catholic Church: the sexualization of culture, the “cool” factor, time management, school, today’s music, etc etc.

It is going to take some mighty smart people and a lot of prayer to figure it all out!

Thank you.

I think along with smart people and prayer, it will also take some experimenting. Smart people come up with solutions that look great on powerpoint, but in real life, they don’t work. The only way to see if something works is to try the experiement.

Edward Jenner (the “Father of Vaccination”) was speaking to Dr.John Hunter once about a medical subject, and Dr. Hunter replied, “Why think? Why not try the experiment?”

Thomas Edison was the classic “trial and error” method inventor. He often had no idea what he was doing, but he just threw stuff together and came up with some pretty good inventions!

I’m not saying that the Catholic Church should start throwing talent and money into a hodge-podge of “experiments” in the hope that something will work and bring back the cradle Catholics. There are certain things that we can’t mess around with, like the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

But it seems to me that once we’ve prayed and various gifted and talented people have done some serious round-table thinking, and others in the congregation have been invited to offer their (name removed by moderator)ut, THEN the Church ought to “try the experiment.”

And if it fails, try another experiment.

Unfortunately, it seems there are a lot of nay-sayers ready to criticize anything new and call the experiment a waste of time or a travesty against the Church or irreverent or unnecessary–I can’t tell you how many times on this forum I’ve heard people say, “In MY day, the Mass was all we needed! Why should we knock ourselves out with all these fancy-schmancy innovations? Just give ‘em a good ol’ fashioned Mass and they’ll come flocking back to Church.”

Well, I don’t agree with that, although I do think it’s one of the “experiments” that we should try! Enough people truly believe that cradle Catholics WILL return to the Church IF there is a traditional Latin Mass that I say, “LET’S JUST DO IT!” Get those TLMs going in every diocese and hopefully, every city in the diocese. What’s the worse that could happen? No one comes. That’s where we are now. We’re no worse off, right?

I just think we all ought to be a little busier actually DOING the work that the Lord has called us to do, and stay out of the work that the Lord has NOT called us to do, other than to pray for those others with different gifts and calling than ours.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

That depends on what you mean by “amend.” If you mean that the Church should not compromise Truth, then I agree with you wholeheartedly.

If, however, you are against changing small t. traditions, then I would disagree, using the Scriptures I cited in my last post.

I still disagree.

You will find that many kids LONG for the small-t ‘traditionalism.’

 

[HappyPerson]

I still disagree.

You will find that many kids LONG for the small-t ‘traditionalism.’

Well, the whole, “Don’t eat meat on lenten Fridays or you will go to Hell,” thing was pushed, in my opinion, more than, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourselves,” at least from the perception of some people of my generation. (Hence choice 10.) Sure; Advent wreathes, talking about Our Lady of Lourdes, and talking about Our Lady of Fatima have their place, but not in lieux of the more essential Apostolic Capital T. Traditions of the faith. Our kids aren’t learning the basics. I would imagine most kids who receive Confirmation have no idea what the Sacrament is about, just that it is graduation from CCD.

I’m not sure what kids you’ve been speaking to, and I take your word for it that such has been the case among them, but I don’t see how changing the language of the Mass to a language they DON’T KNOW could possibly benefit them.

 

[Corki]

I’m not saying that the Catholic Church should start throwing talent and money into a hodge-podge of “experiments” in the hope that something will work and bring back the cradle Catholics. There are certain things that we can’t mess around with, like the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

.

Unfortunately, it seems there are a lot of nay-sayers ready to criticize anything new and call the experiment a waste of time or a travesty against the Church or irreverent or unnecessary–I can’t tell you how many times on this forum I’ve heard people say, “In MY day, the Mass was all we needed! Why should we knock ourselves out with all these fancy-schmancy innovations? Just give ‘em a good ol’ fashioned Mass and they’ll come flocking back to Church.”

I agree that we should try new things. I think one of the reasons you get the “nay-sayers” is that people don’t follow your first criteria:

There are certain things that we can’t mess around with, like the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Too many people like to use the Mass itself as their test tube to experiment. If we tried to make the Mass as “pure” as possible but added lots of fun and creative things outside of Mass, I think we would have more cooperation.

 

[HappyPerson]

I personally left the church because of a combination of poor catechesis (still unsure if it was taught and I missed it or if it just wasn’t presented properly) and a lack of understanding of the personal relationship (I know it sounds protestant) with Jesus.

Yes, Protestants are very big on the personal relationship with Jesus. It is, however, theologically sound that we have a personal relationship with Jesus, and it makes a world of difference. Protestants seem to place heavier stress on it than Catholics do(when catechizing children), and there is something to be said for that. In my opinion, we need to bring children to Jesus, first, and THEN the beauty of His Church. It seems like too often, the Mass and Sacraments are given more stress than the person of Jesus, what He did for us, and why it is important. For me, once I, in Protestant terms, “accepted Jesus,” and then got a proper understanding of the Mass and Sacraments, both became more important to me.

We have to be careful as reverts and converts, however, to consider whether it was an appreciation for Jesus that led us to an appreciation for His Church, or whether it was an appreciation for His Church that led us to an appreciation for Jesus. I would imagine the former in most people’s cases. That being said, are we putting the cart before the horse when we try to bring people back to the Catholic Church, without first helping them gain an appreciation for Jesus?

When an adolescent hears that premarital sex is wrong, who is the messenger? Is the messenger an institutional Church that they were forced to go to every Sunday morning without ever feeling as if they gained anything from it? Is that Church speaking on behalf of a bunch of old priests who took a vow of cellibacy and are out of touch with modern reality? Many of the adolescents may feel that way.

Or, is the Church reiterating and teaching that message from a loving God who sent His only Son to die for our sins, and who fills us with the Holy Spirit, giving us the grace to love Him and desire obedience to Him? Does that message come from Jesus, who loves us, and forgives us? Does it come from God who made us in His image, who loves us and knows what is best for us, always, even when we don’t? Do our children see God behind His Church, which is the Family of God? Do they read the Bible on their own and see that Christianity is much larger than merely “going to Church and CCD?” These are things to consider.

 

[EasterJoy]

I can only speak to actual people I’ve known to have left the Church; most whom were graduates of Catholic high schools:

1. Got busy, gradually quit attending Mass so often, then drifted away entirely.
2. Married outside the Church, and spouse was more intent on going to her church than he was his, and hey, Episcopalian feels pretty close.
3. Misunderstood the concept of “no salvation outside the Church”, and decided if the Church got that wrong, then the Church could not be depended on to get all truth right, as advertised, and the whole house of cards came down. Eventually came back, though.
4. Found Mass repititious, boring, and basically not meaningful. Eventually quit formal Christianity altogether.
5. Family had an abusive priest in an isolated parish, so the whole family started going to the other church in town.
6. Family moved and quit observing when the person was six.
7. Got mad because the Church won’t ordain women, and left.
8. Had always attended because parents forced him to, so he quit going as soon as he left home.

Those are a few reasons I know of.