B
- Status
H
Hadi
Guest
“to God only”…it’s also the same here.
even with taking verse 3:151 out of its historic context, it’s God speaking in this verse promising to take an action. it’s not a commandant. It’s not diffrent than other verses where God promises the unbelievers a hellfire. unless you think Muslims can take the role of God and throw people into fire.
B
Benadam
Guest
Hadi, given that God say’s “We shall cast terror” it seems He includes the faithfull.
At any rate the ultimate end of the destruction of non-believers as an act of God that men have no part of is not expressed with eneogh emphasis to safeguard the faith of God revealed through Muhammed or the rebellious hearts of believers from the deceptions of spurious leaders who would lead them to rebellion.
Being a people of a book divinely chosen to reveal the true faith to the world puts that people into relationship with the world and God that subjects them to a walk that is more easily unbalanced.
S
staffsgt7
Guest
I don’t find your analysis entirely accurate. With Christianity unchecked we did not see the sort of violence you are suggesting unless you are talking of some sort of revisionist history. There is no command to kill for a god in Christianity. You saw bad men in Christianity, but not what we see with the bloody borders of Islam.
Jews and Christians stopped stoning people millenia ago. Because Sharia laws are based on what Muslims consider their god’s word there is no willingness to change these laws.
With Christianity unchecked we saw an upsurge in art, and science. With Islam unchecked we saw an upsurge in persecution, death and subjugation. Slavery thrived as did their ‘thirst’ for the white slaves of Europe. The Muslims eventually went back to their black slave trade which a lot of white people helped along by buying what the Muslims had to offer. Eventually even that ended, but not so in Islam. They are still pulling slaves from Africa and other areas as well. And the violence in the Ottoman Empire went unchecked until that ended.
And 4 years after the fall of the Ottoman Empire al-Bana started his movement because he wanted Islam to be the way it was which was not peacefu and the exact opposite.
The problem with Islam is its Koran, and its prophet which is described in the hadith and sira. That is where the violence comes from. The salvation of their souls, as told by mohammed, depends on that violence. They have a prophet that says that he was victorious by terror, that lying to the infidels is ok if they win, and by telling the Muslims that their salvation depends on warring and killing. This won’t stop unless there is some sort of a check put on Muslims to stop this. What this would be I do not know. But having Muslims tell us that ‘Islam doesn’t mean violence, or that it is inherently peaceful, etc’ won’t help since they are doing nothing to work towards the end of changing Islam and the Koran for themselves.
I do not see any Muslim nation such as Saudi Arabia, or Yemen, or Syria, and especially nations such as Turkey or Jordan, helping to squash the Taliban, or any Jihadist in Pakistan. I only see Pakistan taking our money and doing next to nothing to stop the Taliban or Al Qaeda, and instead working on their Jihad against India.
Y
yankee_doodle
Guest
So the inquisition is revisionist history? Burning people alive in the name of religion wasn’t just as horrible as what we see in modern Muslim society?
Yes, and Muslim society is largely several centuries (maybe even a millennium) behind the west. Nevertheless at one time European and Jewish society was just as dark and theocratic.
The renaissance was hardly a religious endeavor. It began with the discovery of Roman writings (like the writings of Cicero), and it represented a turn from the dogmatic theocracy of the middle ages, towards humanism. Yes, there was plenty of religiously inspired works of art during that period, but your missing the boat on its impetus.
In fact during the low renaissance period we saw the inquisition, the murder of men like Tyndale and Jon Hus, etc.
You do realize the Pope at one time issued a bull blessing (and allowing) the slave trade.
The fact is, I do view extremist Islam as a threat to our society. For instance just this week a nuclear physicist working for CERN in Europe was arrested for collaborating with Al Qaeda, which is a very scary fact & shows these people cannot be underestimated; so I believe we need to put every effort into defeating this scourge (and our elected leaders should heed the advice of our military experts).
However, I’m not willing to invent facts from thin air to prop up my case. The Koran may very well preach some very hateful things (I’ve personally never read the whole thing, so I don’t know & I don’t take the word of partisans on the matter either). What I do know is the New Testament has some hateful and intolerant teachings in it as well, as does the old testament. These are all Abrahamic religions (so they all began with a myth of the same desert nomad who had delusions of a god whispering in his ear
).It’s easy enough to argue the impetus for the Third Reich came from Christian antisemitism (in fact I personally believe that is the case). Dark theocracy is virtually always inevitable where religion is unchecked by secular rationalist thinkers. Murdering the infidels, Jews, homosexuals, etc. is always where it ends up when stupidity is traded for logic & reason.
Then you should look again. Right now Pakistan is taking on the Taliban (at great cost), Saudi Arabia has been helping us for years, and many other countries in the region (like Kuwait and Jordan) have been close allies throughout our war on terror.
We do have enemies in the region yes, but frankly I don’t think you’re doing much of a reasoned analysis on this issue.
Y
yankee_doodle
Guest
This a very intellectually honest assessment
For me this is not an emotional or religious issue, it’s a geopolitical one (so I’m not sure how far I can go in expressing my ideas here on CAF, but I’ll briefly comment).
Suffice it to say I do believe the US can affect change in the region. For instance, we already see astounding change in Iraq (that no one believed could happen just a few years ago). I do see much hope elsewhere in the region as well. For instance Kuwait, Jordan, Bahrain, Qatar, Malaysia, etc. are peaceful countries whose citizens enjoy a relatively high quality of life. Countries like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan are allies and are working hard toward reform (although they have plenty of internal problems).
There’s many other countries who I’m sure I forgot to mention who are working hard at containing and reducing the problem of militant fundamentalism. It will take time, but the important thing is after already investing so much (in terms of blood and treasure); and working so hard to develop a proven format for success, we can’t let up now!
P
planten
Guest
Thanks for asking. I did not make any law of my own. It is all there what I said and the senior muslim religious leaders whom I will call bigots disagree with those good things of religion. They even threaten other Muslims if any one disagreed with their own version of Islam.
- There is no order to kill any one who does not believe in Muhammad. Jews and christians were living happily with Muslims in Madinah. The prophet even borrowed some money from a Jew in Madinah. When he could not return the money in due time, that Jew caught the shirt of the prophet and pulled it with force, asking Muhamamd to return the money.
- The prophet used to help and meet the disbelievers, even inviting them in his home and letting them sleep at home in comfort. (More on this if required).
- There is no punishment for the apostate. Bigots are msiled by some fake Hadith. They want to kill every one who left islam. How bad !!
- There is no stoning to death of married or unmarried adulterers / fornicators. See verse 24:1-2. The bigots try to say that the married adulterer must be stoned to death. That is also based on some hadith and that goes against Quran.
One big well known leader said that the prophet was unsuccessful with his preaching for 13 years. But when the prophet took up the sword in his hand, the rust and dust of disbelief was removed very quickly. How bad !! and wrong !!
The case of Jihad is similar. There is not to be any religious war unless the religion is attacked. Such is not the case now. Only the bad Muslims are being attacked due to their bad deeds. The religion is being attacked only by words of pen or mouth. Not by pistol. So the reply should also be by a word of mouth only and not by sword or gun.
I am sure I am not making up any thing, any of my own laws. The wrong things being done at high level have to be admitted. Otherwise Muslims will keep on suffering till doomsday.
B
Benadam
Guest
Maybe these bad Mulla’s had to happen. Sometimes God has to let the bricks fall on our heads because of being to hardheaded to believe Him. I pray you and others like you, who know the blessing of your religion and bear it’s true nobility will be called to witness in it’s name. That an era of trully wise fathers become spotlights with crowds of Muslims learning how to not be decieved and to act in obedience to the teaching of God as revealed through Muhammed.
P
planten
Guest
The problem is that those religious heads have got laws passed in their countries to oppress the minorities and people of other faiths. They persecute the people and according to Quran, “Persecution is worse than killing.” Verse 2:217.
Illegal, unjustified Killing of one person is as if it is the killing of whole mankind. Quran 5:32. ( This was the order for the children of Israel i.e. the Jews. It applied to the Muslims too. But they are violating that law clearly.)
**[5:32] مِنْ اَجْلِ ذٰلِكَ ۛ ۚ كَتَبْنَا عَلٰى بَنِىْۤ اِسْرَآءِيْلَ اَنَّهٗ مَنْ قَتَلَ نَفْسَۢا بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ اَوْ فَسَادٍ فِىْ الْاَرْضِ فَكَاَنَّمَا قَتَلَ النَّاسَ جَمِيْعًاؕ وَمَنْ اَحْيَاهَا فَكَاَنَّمَاۤ اَحْيَا النَّاسَ جَمِيْعًاؕ وَلَـقَدْ جَآءَتْهُمْ رُسُلُنَا بِالْبَيِّنٰتِ ثُمَّ اِنَّ كَثِيْرًا مِّنْهُمْ بَعْدَ ذٰلِكَ فِىْ الْاَرْضِ لَمُسْرِفُوْنَ
[5:32] On account of this, We prescribed for the children of Israel that whosoever killed a person — unless it be for killing a person or for creating disorder in the land — it shall be as if he had killed all mankind; and whoso gave life to one, it shall be as if he had given life to all mankind. And Our Messengers came to them with clear Signs, yet even after that, many of them commit excesses in the land. **
There are some trees which bend down due to heavy winds. But there are some other rotten old dried up trees which do not bend under the severe pressure of the winds. They only crack and break down. It appears that is the fate of the present day Muslims. As long as they are under the spell of the misguided leaders, they will not improve.
The general body of Muslims have only to settle a few points about the definition of a Kaafir, or about the peaceful teaching and preaching principle against the War with Jihad. It can easily be proved that the right teaching is not what the bigots are spreading. Once that is understood then it would be easy to dispell the bad affect of the wrong teachings. And who will bell the Cat?
It will take very long time. Even the moderates are very careful. Only a few have some courage to speak up. So the problem continues. I feel that the change should come peacefully so that the Muslims amend their ways and support the right western philosophy of peaceful co-existence.
Illegal, unjustified Killing of one person is as if it is the killing of whole mankind. Quran 5:32. ( This was the order for the children of Israel i.e. the Jews. It applied to the Muslims too. But they are violating that law clearly.)
**[5:32] مِنْ اَجْلِ ذٰلِكَ ۛ ۚ كَتَبْنَا عَلٰى بَنِىْۤ اِسْرَآءِيْلَ اَنَّهٗ مَنْ قَتَلَ نَفْسَۢا بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ اَوْ فَسَادٍ فِىْ الْاَرْضِ فَكَاَنَّمَا قَتَلَ النَّاسَ جَمِيْعًاؕ وَمَنْ اَحْيَاهَا فَكَاَنَّمَاۤ اَحْيَا النَّاسَ جَمِيْعًاؕ وَلَـقَدْ جَآءَتْهُمْ رُسُلُنَا بِالْبَيِّنٰتِ ثُمَّ اِنَّ كَثِيْرًا مِّنْهُمْ بَعْدَ ذٰلِكَ فِىْ الْاَرْضِ لَمُسْرِفُوْنَ
[5:32] On account of this, We prescribed for the children of Israel that whosoever killed a person — unless it be for killing a person or for creating disorder in the land — it shall be as if he had killed all mankind; and whoso gave life to one, it shall be as if he had given life to all mankind. And Our Messengers came to them with clear Signs, yet even after that, many of them commit excesses in the land. **
There are some trees which bend down due to heavy winds. But there are some other rotten old dried up trees which do not bend under the severe pressure of the winds. They only crack and break down. It appears that is the fate of the present day Muslims. As long as they are under the spell of the misguided leaders, they will not improve.
The general body of Muslims have only to settle a few points about the definition of a Kaafir, or about the peaceful teaching and preaching principle against the War with Jihad. It can easily be proved that the right teaching is not what the bigots are spreading. Once that is understood then it would be easy to dispell the bad affect of the wrong teachings. And who will bell the Cat?
It will take very long time. Even the moderates are very careful. Only a few have some courage to speak up. So the problem continues. I feel that the change should come peacefully so that the Muslims amend their ways and support the right western philosophy of peaceful co-existence.
S
staffsgt7
Guest
planten’s posts are not even honestly representing what mohammed taught and what he did. How can he be ‘intellectually honest’?
Mohammed said ‘I have been victorious through terror’. He said to lie if it served the Muhammedan’s purpose of conquest and subjugation. He said it was ok to rape, impregnant women and children they captured into slavery.
And if planten is to speak of the Koran then he is supposed to be totally aware of abrogation, page 6 of TheRedTeamReport:
Here we have verses that verifies that those who we call suicide bombers get a ticket straight to their heaven: *3.169] …reckon not those who are killed in Allah’s way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord [meaning they are enjoying their 72 virgins in heaven];
These are just two examples of the jihad verses.
As for the Inquisition, the website ‘thereligionofpeace.com’ puts the numbers in perspective: More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined.
About 2% of the people, of 130,000, were executed. Article here.
And Muslim societies go backwards once Islam takes hold. We have some Muslim countries that have Western influence and the reason why they have modern buildings, and roads. Their laws are still barbaric and bode ill for anyone who is not a Muslim.
Sharia laws demand that there be aggressive Jihad against others.
And if you want to compare the Inquistion deaths to the Muslim deaths since the 1970s, here is another perspective on it: over 50,000 dead since the 1970s. And since 9/11 there are 14212 dead.
Mohammed said ‘I have been victorious through terror’. He said to lie if it served the Muhammedan’s purpose of conquest and subjugation. He said it was ok to rape, impregnant women and children they captured into slavery.
And if planten is to speak of the Koran then he is supposed to be totally aware of abrogation, page 6 of TheRedTeamReport:
*2.190] …fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you…*2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
Here we have verses that verifies that those who we call suicide bombers get a ticket straight to their heaven: *3.169] …reckon not those who are killed in Allah’s way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord [meaning they are enjoying their 72 virgins in heaven];
These are just two examples of the jihad verses.
As for the Inquisition, the website ‘thereligionofpeace.com’ puts the numbers in perspective: More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined.
About 2% of the people, of 130,000, were executed. Article here.
And Muslim societies go backwards once Islam takes hold. We have some Muslim countries that have Western influence and the reason why they have modern buildings, and roads. Their laws are still barbaric and bode ill for anyone who is not a Muslim.
Sharia laws demand that there be aggressive Jihad against others.
And if you want to compare the Inquistion deaths to the Muslim deaths since the 1970s, here is another perspective on it: over 50,000 dead since the 1970s. And since 9/11 there are 14212 dead.
P
pickguard1
Guest
I purposely left out the verses surrounding that one to make a point.funny this would you care to share the verse before and after this verse?
I hate it when christians share one verse when they need three or four to understand the entire thing and then if a muslim does it to their bible they fly into a rage…how hypocritical.
wasalam
I think you missed the tone of my post. My point was that there are plenty of verses in the Quran that explicilty encourage the slaying of unbelievers - and that said passages are used out of context by terrorists to do just that. Anyone can take things out of context - Christians do it all the time (particularly Protestants). Christians just don’t have verses that go like the one I posted, though. Our’s are, kick the dust from your sandals and move on, turn the other cheek.
I would also, say that I don’t fly into a rage - I seek to correct with charity if something is taken out of context. Perhaps you could show how my example is wrong?
R
rikkk1958
Guest
I like this thread because the world really wants to know why the Muslims behaved in such a way like they are so confused with what they are believing with. I am too puzzled with there behavior because, you have on the one hand Muslims like, Sister Amy, Muslim Woman, Planten, etc who advocated preaching peace here (hopefully), and on the other hand, we watched many Muslims behave otherwise.
This is the reason why no matter what they say or argue in this forum, they really faced a problem they can not solve easily. How then can they preach that their faith is peaceful? Perhaps, they may even want us to get converted to Islam. So, these whole thing if they allow themselves to contemplate and check their religion and ours, my suggestion to them is to get converted to Christianity and preach to their fellow Muslims that Hey! we made a mistake of being fooled by Muhammed and the world will be better off if we just stick to the teachings of Jesus!
The thing is that, there is no need for Muhammed to preach another religion because Jesus perfected it, and all we have to do is to follow.
D
davinpa
Guest
Why do I have a feeling that you are a muslim pretending to be a buddhist?
S
staffsgt7
Guest
I get this feeling with a few of the posters here. Or they are appeasers and apologists. I don’t know how anyone can get peace out of Islam other than Muslims who twist the Koran to only include Muslims and exclude everyone else. And that is because everyone else are pigs and apes, destined for the fires of hell, etc. If the Muslims are to discuss Islam then they are totally aware of abrogation, and most of Jihad in the Koran is of violence to the unbelievers.
P
planten
Guest
Simple case of violence has turned into Terrorism now. Even in the time of British rule in India, the Mullas were playing double role. Openly they used to praise the British and take some piece of land in reward. In private they were preaching against the British rule and inciting muslims to revolt. That was clear hypocracy and detrimental to the cause of Muslims.
India got independence in year 1947. It was a good chance for the muslims of Pakistan to behave themselves and learn some good lessons. But as the fate had it, they did not get any good political leaders and their religious leaders were already fake persons, so the condition of the people became worse.
Many Mullas started giving lessons of Jihad with weapons. i.e. to fight the disbelievers all over the world and some how, to establish a government in which laws of Sharia would be enforced. They felt that the law of Sharia would bring them all pleasure. There was internal political disturbance in the country. The Mullas got underway to capture the seat of power in the country by force. When they were un-successful, they finally got down bringing about a revolution through voting. That is a part of history now.
It was all wrong. The bad desires and the bad plans ruined the life of the Muslims. I will soon present a special advice or instruction from a very senior Muslim religious leader of the early Muslim era. He had specially advised the Muslims never to try to destabilise any lawfully or unlawfully established government.
But the Mullas had forgotten all good things of Islam.
India got independence in year 1947. It was a good chance for the muslims of Pakistan to behave themselves and learn some good lessons. But as the fate had it, they did not get any good political leaders and their religious leaders were already fake persons, so the condition of the people became worse.
Many Mullas started giving lessons of Jihad with weapons. i.e. to fight the disbelievers all over the world and some how, to establish a government in which laws of Sharia would be enforced. They felt that the law of Sharia would bring them all pleasure. There was internal political disturbance in the country. The Mullas got underway to capture the seat of power in the country by force. When they were un-successful, they finally got down bringing about a revolution through voting. That is a part of history now.
It was all wrong. The bad desires and the bad plans ruined the life of the Muslims. I will soon present a special advice or instruction from a very senior Muslim religious leader of the early Muslim era. He had specially advised the Muslims never to try to destabilise any lawfully or unlawfully established government.
But the Mullas had forgotten all good things of Islam.
S
Sword_Brethren
Guest
:they don’t have the benefit of atheist intellectuals ensuring their society is a sane, progressive, and tolerant place to live.QUOTE]Unless you are a human fetus or a gun owner in Australia were the government says turn in your rifle or go to prison or in Enlgand were the government says turn in your pistol or go to prison.
S
staffsgt7
Guest
Mullahs are just teaching what the Koran is about. They know abrogation as do you who are trying your mightiest to not admit to it. Because if you are to talk about the Koran you are supposed to know about it. I have posted the link to the Red Team’s Report several times now so please don’t make me do it again.
I hope that this presentation you are talking about is aimed at your own, and not us. It is about time that the majority of Muslims stop being silent and confront your own. Mohammed did say that ‘silence was consent’ so when the majority of Muslims are silent TO THEIR OWN that only means acceptance of what their Jihadists are doing. Since 98% of Jihad is taught is violence, I don’t know how you can keep telling us with seriousness that these Jihadists committing violence in Islam’s name isn’t doing exactly what the Koran/Mohammed is telling them to do.
Qur’an:8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”
Qur’an:8:57 “If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned.”
S
staffsgt7
Guest
Surah five has been abrogated both its authority for applications and its wording has been abrogated. How can you seriously talk about the Koran if you are not knowledgable about abrogation?
S
Sword_Brethren
Guest
Not tolerant if you are a human fetus or a gun owner in Australia were the government says turn in your rifle or go to prison, or in Enlgand were the government says turn in your pistol or go to prison, or a deformed baby that is euthanized in Holland.
D
Dettingen
Guest
I was at first reluctant to join this discussion.
There’s a difference between religion and political motives here.
Many people have already correctly pointed out that followers of all the various religions have failed to live up to the teachings of their founders. Many people have tried to use their religion as a weapon against other people. Those of us who try to serve the Christ have a long history of failures, but I know God understands our human failings.
Having said that, I will just say that there are as many perspectives on Islam as there are Muslims. Some of the Muslims have great anger towards the Western world, and violently attack it. The vast majority of the world’s Muslims do not want to attack anybody. They want to work hard, raise their families, worship God, and live their own way peacefully.
Unfortunately, the attacks of the few angry, violent, conservative Muslims have been so spectacular that those outside the Muslim community have gotten a distorted picture of the faith.
Imagine what opinion of Christianity a farmer near Jerusalem formed after an army of crusaders marched across his fields? His opinion would be very distorted too.
Remember, the five pillars of Islam (the five things one must believe and do to be a good Muslim) do not contain a requirement to attack anybody.
For reference sake, here they are:
So why are some Muslims unhappy with the West and the United States in particular? Well, I’m afraid that in many cases the United States has not respected the sovereignty of Islamic people. For example, in the mid-1950s, in Iran a rebellion against the Iranian government was fermenting. The rebels did not like the government of the Shah and wished to have someone else. The US wanted the Shah to be in charge because the Shah was against the Soviet Union, with whom Iran shared a border. If the Shah was in charge, Communism wouldn’t spread to Iran and the US wanted to contain communism at all costs. So the CIA undertook covert action to prop up the Shah’s unpopular government, against the express wishes of the people of Iran.
The attacks on 9/11 resulted from a different kind of meddling, and here I think the anger isn’t justified or understandable, in contrast to the case above. In the early 1990’s, Iraq invaded and illegally annexed the rich coastal nation of Kuwait. Well, you can’t just go around conquering other countries like that anymore, so a United Nations coalition led by the United States drove Iraq back out again and liberated Kuwait. Afterward, Saudi Arabia asked the US to station forces there to be handy in case of future need, and the US agreed. But some ultra-conservative Muslims didn’t like that because Saudi Arabia is to them holy Muslim land and the US troops, not being Muslim, were infidels. So they thought the holy land was being corrupted by the presence of infidels. (Note that this is exactly the same view that led the Europeans to try and conquer Jerusalem and drive the Muslims out.)
So Al-Queda attacked the US on 9/11 because of the above. But, IMO, they weren’t being fair, because after all, the US was in Saudi Arabia on SA’s invitation. But, as has been demonstrated amply on these boards, ultra-conservatives of any stripe seldom behave logically.
My .02.
Pax
Dettingen
There’s a difference between religion and political motives here.
Many people have already correctly pointed out that followers of all the various religions have failed to live up to the teachings of their founders. Many people have tried to use their religion as a weapon against other people. Those of us who try to serve the Christ have a long history of failures, but I know God understands our human failings.
Having said that, I will just say that there are as many perspectives on Islam as there are Muslims. Some of the Muslims have great anger towards the Western world, and violently attack it. The vast majority of the world’s Muslims do not want to attack anybody. They want to work hard, raise their families, worship God, and live their own way peacefully.
Unfortunately, the attacks of the few angry, violent, conservative Muslims have been so spectacular that those outside the Muslim community have gotten a distorted picture of the faith.
Imagine what opinion of Christianity a farmer near Jerusalem formed after an army of crusaders marched across his fields? His opinion would be very distorted too.
Remember, the five pillars of Islam (the five things one must believe and do to be a good Muslim) do not contain a requirement to attack anybody.
For reference sake, here they are:
- must proclaim the oneness of God
- one must pray to God five times daily
- one must give money, time, and resources to the poor
- one must fast during the holy month of Ramadan
- if able, one must make a pilgrimage to the holy city of Mecca
So why are some Muslims unhappy with the West and the United States in particular? Well, I’m afraid that in many cases the United States has not respected the sovereignty of Islamic people. For example, in the mid-1950s, in Iran a rebellion against the Iranian government was fermenting. The rebels did not like the government of the Shah and wished to have someone else. The US wanted the Shah to be in charge because the Shah was against the Soviet Union, with whom Iran shared a border. If the Shah was in charge, Communism wouldn’t spread to Iran and the US wanted to contain communism at all costs. So the CIA undertook covert action to prop up the Shah’s unpopular government, against the express wishes of the people of Iran.
The attacks on 9/11 resulted from a different kind of meddling, and here I think the anger isn’t justified or understandable, in contrast to the case above. In the early 1990’s, Iraq invaded and illegally annexed the rich coastal nation of Kuwait. Well, you can’t just go around conquering other countries like that anymore, so a United Nations coalition led by the United States drove Iraq back out again and liberated Kuwait. Afterward, Saudi Arabia asked the US to station forces there to be handy in case of future need, and the US agreed. But some ultra-conservative Muslims didn’t like that because Saudi Arabia is to them holy Muslim land and the US troops, not being Muslim, were infidels. So they thought the holy land was being corrupted by the presence of infidels. (Note that this is exactly the same view that led the Europeans to try and conquer Jerusalem and drive the Muslims out.)
So Al-Queda attacked the US on 9/11 because of the above. But, IMO, they weren’t being fair, because after all, the US was in Saudi Arabia on SA’s invitation. But, as has been demonstrated amply on these boards, ultra-conservatives of any stripe seldom behave logically.
My .02.
Pax
Dettingen
- Status