Why are so many Muslims violent?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mike5575
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
The violence of the Muslims can be traced to ignorance of their good side of religion. It becomes worse when they start exporting that violence to western peaceful countries. Some Muslims feel they need to equal some score against the western governments.

But it is clear that their violence is unjustified. While living in a western country, they should live as very peaceful citizen. There should be unconditional attitude of peace from them in USA, UK and France etc.

There are people of other religions living in those countries. There are hindus, Budhists, Jews and christians there. They are having their schools and finance institutions. If other religions do not have any problem then why the Muslims should have any problem. They should live like other people there and enjoy life. But this can only be done by absolute faithfulness in the rule of law (constitution) of that country.

I noted that some Muslims intend to have their own religious laws (Sharia) in those countries. They can apply to the authorities for special permission to have their personal laws. If allowed, they can use it for their own people only, not for any one else. If it is not allowed due to any reason, they can forget it and be happy as they are.

They cannot raise any objection or disturbance about anything while living in those countries. Their salvation lies in trying to overtake the other nations in good works, peacefulness, education and high morale. There should be no anti-state or anti-people activity even in the minds of the Muslims. It should be Love for All, hatred for None.
‘they should’ ‘they should’ ‘they should’ Go tell it to your own.

And even you admit to what their goals are,
Their salvation lies in trying to overtake the other nations
Here we see the inability to separate Church and State.

Sharia laws, Islam, has nothing morally superior in it. polygamy, pediphilia, honor killings, slavery are ok in Islam. All the Muslim man has to do is marry the child sometimes as young as one, and then because that child bears the label of ‘wife’ the muslim claims moral superiority. Honor killings, beating wives, persecuting gays,

What I am finding that Muslims do is not only revise their history to suit their goals they revise words so as to have the appearance of moral superiority.

One of the most sought after operation in the UK are Muslim women seeking to be made into virgins again. Even they know it is only a play on words and an appearance of modesty that is important.
 
So the inquisition is revisionist history? Burning people alive in the name of religion wasn’t just as horrible as what we see in modern Muslim society?
Yes, and Muslim people burning Christians was bad as well. Please remember that without Muslim attacks/raping/pillaging into Christendom there would never have been any crusades.
Yes, and Muslim society is largely several centuries (maybe even a millennium) behind the west. Nevertheless at one time European and Jewish society was just as dark and theocratic.
True, but while Jesus taught us to not hide our lamp under a bushel Mahomet taught Muslims to rape and kill in his name. Therefore Christianity and Judaism moved forward while Islam did not.
The fact is, I do view extremist Islam as a threat to our society. For instance just this week a nuclear physicist working for CERN in Europe was arrested for collaborating with Al Qaeda, which is a very scary fact & shows these people cannot be underestimated; so I believe we need to put every effort into defeating this scourge (and our elected leaders should heed the advice of our military experts).

However, I’m not willing to invent facts from thin air to prop up my case. The Koran may very well preach some very hateful things (I’ve personally never read the whole thing, so I don’t know & I don’t take the word of partisans on the matter either). What I do know is the New Testament has some hateful and intolerant teachings in it as well, as does the old testament. These are all Abrahamic religions (so they all began with a myth of the same desert nomad who had delusions of a god whispering in his ear :rolleyes:).
I fear that you are falling into a trap of equating non equal things. Equating the New Testament and the Koran is akin to equating the execution of Julius Rosenberg and Auschwitz.
 
While your watching Christian programming, a religion supposedly about peace and love, take a listen to guys like the Pastor John Hague (and his progeny), who dream of an apocalypse and war with the Islamic world. How are they any better than Islamofacists (except that they’re contained by a secular society where they can’t get away with doing the sort of things they would naturally do if they were unchecked).

Religion in whatever form feeds on fear, paranoia, superstition, and ignorance. They have to … because if their adherents actually gave real consideration to the facts, the game would be all over.
I’m not sure how any rational being can equate the (IMHO incorrect) exegesis of scripture that predicts the downfall of Islam with the real world extreme violence being carried out daily against non Muslims by Muslims.

The second part of your quote (Religion in whatever form…) shows a deep and resounding wound in your past that causes you to feel the need to try to control what you cannot and to deny the obvious. I will pray for you.
 
The second part of your quote (Religion in whatever form…) shows a deep and resounding wound in your past that causes you to feel the need to try to control what you cannot and to deny the obvious. I will pray for you.
Isn’t this what you guys have to tell yourselves to internally justify your beliefs? How can anyone not believe in god or Jesus (or at least believe in something)?

Who could find our fairy tales unpersuasive? Here’s the thing, you’re the folks who believe in invisible angels, virgins impregnated by spirits, god-men who rise from the dead, talking snakes, rivers that turn to blood, and all the rest of the hoopla. Objectively speaking … that’s crazy. Seeing religion for what it is, nonsense, is the sane and rational position.
 
‘they should’ ‘they should’ ‘they should’ Go tell it to your own.

And even you admit to what their goals are,

Here we see the inability to separate Church and State.
Here’s a quintissential example of my point. Christianity also imposes a mandate to spread its religion to the entire world. However, religion in the west is moderated by our secular culture (build on concepts like separation of church and state). This wasn’t a natural accomidation for Christiantiy, it was a concession.

Islam must eventually make the same concession in the interest of peace.
 
Here’s a quintissential example of my point. Christianity also imposes a mandate to spread its religion to the entire world. However, religion in the west is moderated by our secular culture (build on concepts like separation of church and state). This wasn’t a natural accomidation for Christiantiy, it was a concession.

Islam must eventually make the same concession in the interest of peace.
I don’t believe they want to do that and it does not seem to be their goal, not yesterday, now today and not tomorrow.

Their aim is to globally turn the earth’s inhabitants submissive to islam
~ everyone a muslim
~ everyone submit to allah
~ everyone submit to islam
 
Here’s a quintissential example of my point. Christianity also imposes a mandate to spread its religion to the entire world. However, religion in the west is moderated by our secular culture (build on concepts like separation of church and state). This wasn’t a natural accomidation for Christiantiy, it was a concession.

Islam must eventually make the same concession in the interest of peace.
Islam only knows three options for peace and that is death to the unbeliever, conversion, or subjugation of the unbeliever. There are no other options in Islam.

Have you studied any Islamic history? Maybe if you were aware of Sharia laws you might think differently. The Reliance of the Traveller spells out Sharia laws.

Or maybe you are a Muslim revert trying to pretend to be open minded. And if you think that religous myths and whatever are not the way to be, then you are defending the wrong ideology. Many so called civilized people are reverting back to the stoneage mentality of Islam with all its myths and barbaric beliefs. They are either blindly or openly accepting Sharia laws which support their violent Jihadists, violence against women and especially violence against non-Muslims including slaves.

That is what you are defending. Slavery, subjugation of people who are not Muslims under Islamic laws and the loss of any freedoms.

From what you are posting I don’t really think that you know what Islamic history has been. Your posts are along the same lines of planten’s posts.
 
To Sam_777 and other Arabic reading members.

There was an article from Alawan, on, 12 August, 2009,

Titled:

“Anyone who claims that Jihad does not originate from the Islamic religion is lying.

” (من قال إنّ الجهاد ليس من الدين فقد كذب!)

Link:
alawan.org/%D9%85%D9%86-%D9%82%D8%A7%D9%84-%D8%A3%D9%86-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AC%D9%87%D8%A7%D8%AF.html

Can you translate that for me because there is no English translation.

And also, it’s been said that the banners they have on their heads, (headbands) say something like “allah akhbar” - “allah is great” can you also confirm that.

But my main interest in translating the news article and what is states.

Thanks much!
Hi Pam! Here’s the in English.

Vickie
 
Islam only knows three options for peace and that is death to the unbeliever, conversion, or subjugation of the unbeliever. There are no other options in Islam.

Have you studied any Islamic history? Maybe if you were aware of Sharia laws you might think differently. The Reliance of the Traveller spells out Sharia laws.

Or maybe you are a Muslim revert trying to pretend to be open minded. And if you think that religous myths and whatever are not the way to be, then you are defending the wrong ideology. Many so called civilized people are reverting back to the stoneage mentality of Islam with all its myths and barbaric beliefs. They are either blindly or openly accepting Sharia laws which support their violent Jihadists, violence against women and especially violence against non-Muslims including slaves.

That is what you are defending. Slavery, subjugation of people who are not Muslims under Islamic laws and the loss of any freedoms.

From what you are posting I don’t really think that you know what Islamic history has been. Your posts are along the same lines of planten’s posts.
I’m not defending anything, but you’re obviously a bigot. I’ve known many Muslims, even had good Muslim friends, and none of them tried to convert me, nor were they “faking it” either.
 
It’s because of people like these muslims are violent. These muslim go and see and hear this “sheik” preach and these are the things they hear…
**THE Muslim preacher Sheik Feiz Mohammed has referred to Jews as evil in **a videotaped lecture still being sold in Sydney despite threats of legal action by the federal and state governments.
The lectures, in which **Sheik Feiz also refers to Jews as pigs and calls on Muslim parents to offer their children as soldiers to defend Islam, **were still on sale in Sydney late yesterday. The Herald found the series in an Islamic bookshop in Lakemba.
In one of the DVDs Sheik Feiz criticises Muslim parents for being too cautious about letting their children receive jihad teachings.
He also talks of his desire that children be offered "as soldiers defending Islam".
Sheik Feiz makes pig-like snorting noises when he refers to Jews. "They will be [snort, snort] - all of them. Every single one of them."
 
and I bet you’ve never had a Muslim friend in your life either, yet you paint them with a broad brush.

Do you have any German in you? If so then you must be a Nazi …

Are you a Catholic male … then you probably like little boys.

Any Irish in you? Oooo, you must be a drunk.

Do you think those are rational statements?

Geesh … I wish people would think before they speak.
 
and I bet you’ve never had a Muslim friend in your life either, yet you paint them with a broad brush.

Do you have any German in you? If so then you must be a Nazi …

Are you a Catholic male … then you probably like little boys.

Any Irish in you? Oooo, you must be a drunk.

Do you think those are rational statements?

Geesh … I wish people would think before they speak.
:yawn:
 
and I bet you’ve never had a Muslim friend in your life either, yet you paint them with a broad brush.

Do you have any German in you? If so then you must be a Nazi …

Are you a Catholic male … then you probably like little boys.

Any Irish in you? Oooo, you must be a drunk.

Do you think those are rational statements?

Geesh … I wish people would think before they speak.
Many of us here on CAF Non-Catholic sub forum **never **hide the fact that we do not like islam!

And we pray for muslims NOT for islam.
 
I’m not defending anything, but you’re obviously a bigot. I’ve known many Muslims, even had good Muslim friends, and none of them tried to convert me, nor were they “faking it” either.
I have also had great Muslim friends, none of whom were “faking it”. The problem is that Islam is not your or my friends. It is the Qur’an, Sunnah, and Hadith. It is fatwas, Mullahs, and Imams. All of these things are the problem. Your friends or my friends obviously aren’t the problem.

By your method of argumentation, I could argue that because none of the Christians that I personally know are anything but good, you should agree that Christians are good, and if you don’t you’re a “bigot”.

Judging from your post history and terrible signature, I don’t think you’ll agree to that. It seems obvious to me that you are another atheistic defender of “freedom” so long as that includes every belief system BUT Christianity.

Atheism, of course, is essentially illegal in Muslim-dominated countries like Iran, Egypt, and Jordan which require their citizens to be officially counted as members of a religious community for the purposes of official identification (and hence, any of the rights that come from being a citizen), but you can go ahead and continue thinking that it is Christians who are being so awfully discriminatory, and Christianity is really the problem and threat to you as an oh-so-englightened person. :rolleyes:
 
WOAH! So much untrue, from both sides, my head is spinning…

Someone above me said you’ll see a certain point of view (that I do not share) when you study Islamic history, the Qur’an, etc. Well, I have. I studied Islam in depth for several years, studied Arabic, read the Qur’an in Arabic, studied the history of Islam and Islamic fundamentalism, etc…

Let me start by saying I think Islam is an abomination of the God’s true religion by the devil. However, what many of you are saying is simply untrue. We lose credibility as Catholics when we repeat untruths about something we disagree with. Ultimately, Islam is wrong because it falsely denies the divinity of Christ. There are other problems with it, but the many of things that are being repeated here are simply false and inflammatory.

Let me clear up a few things-
‘Allah’ is merely the Arabic word for God. In Bibles written in Arabic, God is written as Allah. Claiming Allah is some different, heathen god is exactly the same as claiming the Jews worship YHWH, not God. It is true that Christians believe in different attributes of God than Muslims, but the same is true for Christians and Jews. In fact, there is virtually no disagreement about God between Muslims and Jews.

There is a special place in Islam for Christians and Jews who are called “people of the book,” Yes, some Muslims would still want to convert us, and some would want to kill us if we didn’t convert… but a reasonable interpretation of the Qur’an shows the Islam does not wish harm to come of Christians or Jews.

Islam, especially the Qur’an (and very few Hadiths are agreed on my all Muslims to be authoritative) does not advocate (much) violence against women. There are surahs which indicate it is acceptable to lightly hit one’s wife with a small twig or branch. (Not that I’m saying this is okay, but just trying to clear things up). Seriously wounding a wife is entirely outlawed. The Qur’an absolutely does not support or allow female genital mutilation (which is an entirely secular, regional practice, which is also done by Hindus and a number of Christians).

The problem is that many of the bad things about Islam are also bad about the Old Testament (“you’re religion allows you to stone women who enter the temple while menstruating?! Who wear mixed fabrics?!”) On deeper analysis, we don’t think these things are bad (for a number of reasons). But none of us are able to give this deep of analysis to the things we claim are wrong with Islam.

That is why the only thing about Islam that matters is that it is not of Christ. If Christ had said that Islam is the best religion, we would follow it despite everything its critics say. But Christ said follow His religion, so anything that is not His religion is false–that is, and should be, our basis for opposing Islam.
 
Let me clear up a few things-
‘Allah’ is merely the Arabic word for God. In Bibles written in Arabic, God is written as Allah. Claiming Allah is some different, heathen god is exactly the same as claiming the Jews worship YHWH, not God. It is true that Christians believe in different attributes of God than Muslims, but the same is true for Christians and Jews. In fact, there is virtually no disagreement about God between Muslims and Jews.
Well…yes and no. “Allah” certainly is Arabic for “God”, but what exactly that means varies according to which Arabic-speaking faith community you are talking about. We have had several very interesting threads on this subject that have been graced with the knowledge of our native Arabic-speakers of both the Christian and Muslim communities, and the consensus (to the extent that we could reach one) seems to be the Allah is NOT simply the word for God in Arabic among Muslims. It is more like a proper name like “Joe”, “Maria”, or “Armen”. While this may or may not seem important to you, apparently it is of some theological importance to at least some Muslims, as the conversation got a bit heated between myself and some Muslim posters regarding this point. I don’t get it, but there you go.
There is a special place in Islam for Christians and Jews who are called “people of the book,” Yes, some Muslims would still want to convert us, and some would want to kill us if we didn’t convert… but a reasonable interpretation of the Qur’an shows the Islam does not wish harm to come of Christians or Jews.
We do not call ourselves “People of the Book”, though. This is their term for us, and it reflects the projection of inherently flawed Islamic epistemology on us. I don’t accept it, and I don’t think any other Christian should. We are people of Christ, who is not a book. Better to be “Masihiyeen” than one of the “Ahl al-kitab”, no? 😉

Also, I must object to your “reasonable interpretation”. I would certainly say that is unreasonable to suggest that there is nothing but harm and enmity towards Christians in the Qur’an, but I certainly would not therefore make the leap that you are apparently making and say that “Islam does not wish harm to come [to?] Christians and Jews”. This is quite false. They want us to pay the jizyah and feel ourselves thusly subdued (I guess you might be right in this regard…why kill the goose that lays the golden egg), but should we refuse…well, then it is a different story. Any “oppression” of Islam means all that nice stuff goes out the window, and we do not get to decide what constitutes “oppression” of Islam. They decide that, and it can be as simple as preaching the Gospel, refusing to submit to second class status under Islamic rule, agitating for the freedom of your people, etc.
The problem is that many of the bad things about Islam are also bad about the Old Testament (“you’re religion allows you to stone women who enter the temple while menstruating?! Who wear mixed fabrics?!”) On deeper analysis, we don’t think these things are bad (for a number of reasons). But none of us are able to give this deep of analysis to the things we claim are wrong with Islam.
I think this is looking at things from an overly charitable position. The question ought not to be “aren’t there similar things SOMEWHERE in the Bible” (because most Muslims are terrible at exegesis, since it’s not their book), but rather “how do the respective communities interpret and practice their religion in light of those verses?” So, in a way, you’re right: We are unable, as Christians, to analyze the problematic verses of the Qur’an in any way that would be meaningful to Muslims (because, like the flawed exegesis of the Bible on the part of the Muslims, it is not our book), but the important thing to recognize is that much of maintstream Islam is itself unwilling to perform this analysis, even for its own benefit. Read this forum a bit and you’ll see that nine times out of ten when something horrific happens in the name of Islam, the responses from Muslims are “that is not true Islam”, and then silence. Or sometimes just silence. No deep analysis, no refutation of the actual practice based on any traditional reading or understanding of the Qur’an (or Sunnah, or Hadith). Just “that is not true Islam”, and then they move on to complaining about things they think are similar about the Bible, or about how we’re all so anti-Muslim, etc. Believe me, I WISH this weren’t the case, but it is.
That is why the only thing about Islam that matters is that it is not of Christ. If Christ had said that Islam is the best religion, we would follow it despite everything its critics say. But Christ said follow His religion, so anything that is not His religion is false–that is, and should be, our basis for opposing Islam.
It is the true that the only thing that matters about Islam (or about ANYTHING) is whether it is with or against Christ, but I think that framing things in these terms doesn’t help anyone. It doesn’t help the victims of Islamic terror across the world, be they Christian or otherwise, and it surely will not help bring Muslims to an accurate understanding of Christ and Christianity (neither of which they get from the Qur’an or anything else related to Islam). Keep in mind that Muslims already believe that they are the ones who are really following Christ, and that we are the ones who are in error. They get that from their false Qur’an, so handling it with kid gloves while they savage our scriptures at every turn looking for evidence of Muhammad or their religion is really doing CHRIST a disservice.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top