Why are spirits' names such a big deal?

[PazzoGrande]

I understand of course that the Sacred Name of God is important, but why is there so much discretion with the names of spirits?

For example, we aren’t supposed to try to give names to the angels whose names we don’t already know by Divine Revelation. If I’m not mistaken, the catechism warns us not to. Aside from the occult and the charlatans who try to name their angels, why is there so much prohibition over this?

And with demons, when an exorcist figures out the name of a demon, it’s supposed to be a big deal. Why so?

I doubt that it’s because it would tempt people to worship the other spirits in heaven, because we already know the names of Saints and we certainly don’t worship them.

 

[CountrySteve]

My Priest told me if you figured out the name of a demon you have power over them and can excorize them.

 

[PazzoGrande]

My Priest told me if you figured out the name of a demon you have power over them and can excorize them.

I agree with that, it figures prominently in the book The Rite (really good book btw).

Still it makes me wonder why. Why is the name so important in getting the demon out of there?

 

[Christine85]

It’s not recommended a non exorcist do that.

It works because it’s identifying the demon , actually I think I heard that the exorcist demands to know the demons name in order to control the demon, as once it’s labeled it’s easier to control.

 

[po18guy]

Throughout history, your name defined who you were. Notice the frequent references to the meaning of names in scripture.

Genesis 32:2
This is God’s encampment, he said when he saw them, and called the place Mahanaim, which means a Camp.

Genesis 33:17
Jacob went as far as Socoth, and there built himself a house, with sheds for his cattle; that is why he called the place Socoth, which means Sheds.

II Machabees 1:36
As for the place, Nehemias himself called it Nephthar, which means Purification; but the vulgar call it Nephi.

Matthew 1:23
Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bear a son, and they shall call him Emmanuel (which means, God with us).

Mark 15:22
And so they took him to a place called Golgotha, which means, The place of a skull.

John 1:38
Turning, and seeing them follow him, Jesus asked, What would you have of me? Rabbi, they said (a word which means Master), where dost thou live?

John 9:7
and said to him, Away with thee, and wash in the pool of Siloe (a word which means, Sent out). So he went and washed there, and came back with his sight restored.

The Acts 4:36
There was a Levite called Joseph, a Cypriot by birth, to whom the apostles gave the fresh name of Barnabas, which means, the man of encouragement;

Hebrews 7:1-2
7 It was this Melchisedech, king of Salem, and priest of the most high God, who met Abraham and blessed him on his way home, after the defeat of the kings;[a] 2 and to him Abraham gave a tenth of his spoils. Observe, in the first place, that his name means, the king of justice; and further that he is king of Salem, that is, of peace.

 

[dshix]

What others have said about discovering the demon is correct; the more you know about it the easier it is to expell it, and when you know its name it makes it much easier to give it commands by name.

The reason you should not name your guardian angel is because 1) The name you choose is VERY likely not the angel’s actual name (imagine if you started calling God Almighty “Bob” …) and 2) because you may be calling upon the name of a demon by the name you choose in which case you would be in very big trouble indeed. Calling upon a demon is very dangerous, and even if you don’t know that’s who you are calling, its still the fallen angel’s name.

 

[PazzoGrande]

If we draw a parallel between expelling a demon from a person and expelling, say, a thief from a convenient store, why does the name make a difference? You could get the burglar out with weapons, and our spiritual weapons (holy water, relics, blessed items) could perhaps get the demon out. If we don’t need to know the thief’s name, why do we need to know the demon’s?

It’s not a great analogy of course, but possession is something that isn’t easy to understand on earthly terms,

I’m not challenging anything of course, just trying to grasp why it works this way. You guys are all right but the *why *is still a mystery to me.

 

[dshix]

If we draw a parallel between expelling a demon from a person and expelling, say, a thief from a convenient store, why does the name make a difference? You could get the burglar out with weapons, and our spiritual weapons (holy water, relics, blessed items) could perhaps get the demon out. If we don’t need to know the thief’s name, why do we need to know the demon’s?

It’s not a great analogy of course, but possession is something that isn’t easy to understand on earthly terms,

I’m not challenging anything of course, just trying to grasp why it works this way. You guys are all right but the *why *is still a mystery to me.

You have a very interesting and realistic question.
I honestly don’t know the answer off the bat, but there are some REALLY good books on exorcism and oppression which I found fascinating to read, and which I think are a good read even if they are of no material use to a Catholic, because they open the eyes to the power of the spiritual world.

When an exorcist is working on expelling a demon, he needs to get the upper hand in order to get anywhere. Since demons are pure spirits, their intellect is greatly superior to any human intellect, so an exorcist must take advantage of everything he can in order to discover the cause of the possession or oppression, and root out the demon’s hold on the person.

As I said, I don’t have first-hand experience (and it has been a few years since I read a book on the subject) but it is all very, very interesting.

 

[po18guy]

This interview with an exorcist Priest will help to explain. An excerpt:

Why doesn´t he want to reveal his name?

The name discloses his being. Franz Rosenzweig once said the name is not “sound and smoke”, as Goethe says, but “word and fire”. The name Jesus means “God saves”. Isaac, Jacob, all these names have a particular meaning. And it always discloses the person´s being. When I say my name, I´m also saying: I am here. No Demon ever wants to say its name.

And once it´s said it?

At the end, the priest says to the demon, “Go away! Disappear!” The demon usually answers, “No, I don´t want to.” It rebels and revolts. Sometimes it says “You have no power over me. You are nothing to me.” But after a while, its resistance weakens. This usually happens after the invocation of the Holy Mother, she´s very important for that. No demon ever dares to insult her during an exorcism. Never.

Does he have more respect for Mary than for God himself?

Apparently. Otherwise no holds are barred, and everyone is insulted: the priests, everyone present, the bishops, the Pope, even Jesus Christ. But never the Virgin Mary. It´s an enigma.

 

[dshix]

Just a speculation, but a demon’s unwillingness to insult the Virgin Mary might have something to do with not wanting Christ to directly step in to protect His mother’s name and send the demon instantly howling out of the person!

 

[PazzoGrande]

Just a speculation, but a demon’s unwillingness to insult the Virgin Mary might have something to do with not wanting Christ to directly step in to protect His mother’s name and send the demon instantly howling out of the person!

If I remember right, the book The Rite says that demons are afraid of Mary because they are so humiliated that a mere creature overpowered them. When God does it, it’s a natural, because God created them and is still their Master. But angels are supposed to be superior to humans, and when there is a human being that ends up being their Queen, the prideful demons are humiliated.

 

[dshix]

If I remember right, the book The Rite says that demons are afraid of Mary because they are so humiliated that a mere creature overpowered them. When God does it, it’s a natural, because God created them and is still their Master. But angels are supposed to be superior to humans, and when there is a human being that ends up being their Queen, the prideful demons are humiliated.

That’s interesting.

 

[PazzoGrande]

That’s interesting.

Yeah they don’t even wanna call her by name. They just say “her.”

Which just adds the fascination to why there’s so much importance given to names.

Tragic that humans take God’s Name in vain all the time, huh?

 

[po18guy]

Just a speculation, but a demon’s unwillingness to insult the Virgin Mary might have something to do with not wanting Christ to directly step in to protect His mother’s name and send the demon instantly howling out of the person!

“I will put enmity between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed” Enmity means that there is nothing they share between them, even the utterance of their NAMES.

 

[patrick457]

If I remember right, the book The Rite says that demons are afraid of Mary because they are so humiliated that a mere creature overpowered them. When God does it, it’s a natural, because God created them and is still their Master. But angels are supposed to be superior to humans, and when there is a human being that ends up being their Queen, the prideful demons are humiliated.

Very interesting. I also think that it might have to do with Mary’s “Fiat,” which in a sense really started the chain of events which ultimately led to the redemption of man.

 

[virginknitter]

An interesting book, “Satan in the Modern World” is a collection of accounts of exorcisms. In one of the exorcisms the demon is confronted with Mary. The demon repeatedly asks her to leave him alone and he always addresses her as “Madame.” (Exorcism took place in France.) Satan fears her because she is the chosen woman destined to crush his head in the final triumph. It will be the most humiliating defeat God could devise for that proud spirit To be conquored by the most humble handmaiden of the Lord…

 

[PazzoGrande]

An interesting book, “Satan in the Modern World” is a collection of accounts of exorcisms. In one of the exorcisms the demon is confronted with Mary. The demon repeatedly asks her to leave him alone and he always addresses her as “Madame.” (Exorcism took place in France.) Satan fears her because she is the chosen woman destined to crush his head in the final triumph. It will be the most humiliating defeat God could devise for that proud spirit To be conquored by the most humble handmaiden of the Lord…

Thanks for that. I Googled it and found this

ewtn.com/library/NEWAGE/EVIDSATN.HTM

Looks like an interesting read.

 

[CaptFun]

An interesting book, “Satan in the Modern World” is a collection of accounts of exorcisms. In one of the exorcisms the demon is confronted with Mary. The demon repeatedly asks her to leave him alone and he always addresses her as “Madame.” (Exorcism took place in France.) Satan fears her because she is the chosen woman destined to crush his head in the final triumph. It will be the most humiliating defeat God could devise for that proud spirit To be conquored by the most humble handmaiden of the Lord…

And it turns Satan’s big victory over mankind inside out. He tempted Eve and got her to say “No” to the Lord’s (only!) Law and “Yes” to Satan’s temptation.

With Mary (the New Eve) creation begins anew with a virgin’s “YES!” to the Lord’s invitation.

Symbolically this shows God’s preference for making all the wrongs, right, in his justice.

And in His Mercy.

God made them male and female - and we each owe our ancestors a lot. The mothers who mothered us and the fathers and men who built a society over the years far removed from the primitive times when people had to work every minute of their lives just to survive.

Not to say that men didn’t help with the mothering to an extent or that women didn’t help build up society outside the home either.

We should rejoice in our blessed Mother whose mothership we share with Jesus (as his gift to us). Her name may have meant “bitter” and her fate was prophesied as having a “sword” pierce her. But her son cast out demons and she is certainly one of those to which this scripture applies:

**John 14:12 ** Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father.

13 And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Her belief in Her Son was complete from the beginning, as the Holy Spirit-filled Elizabeth attested :

Luke 1:41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit,

42

cried out in a loud voice and said, "Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.

43

And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

44 For at the moment the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.

45 Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled."

As for the names of demons, Jesus asked that question when he expelled “Legion”.

 

[midori]

Don’t forget-- God’s name was never spoken. Ancient Jews often used “Adonai” instead of YHWH, and even in modern Catholicism, we’ve cracked down on the use of the word “Yahweh” in liturgical music.

Remember what a kerfluffle Jesus caused when he used the term “I am”. (Mark 14:61, for example.)

Jesus’ name was a big indicator of what his ministry was to be about: in Matthew 1, for example:

She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[f] because he will save his people from their sins.”
f. Matthew 1:21 Jesus is the Greek form of Joshua, which means the Lord saves.

I was reading an interesting commentary about John the Baptist in City of God by Mary of Agreda. The snippet goes something along the lines of how the devil was waiting for Jesus to incarnate, but not being sure of where to find him. He saw two very holy men, John the Baptist and Jesus, but wasn’t sure if either of them was the individual he was waiting for. So he inspired the question in Mark 11, where John the Baptist was asked, “Are you the Messiah?” And of course, that’s a really odd question for the priests to come up with on their own, because John the Baptist was of the Tribe of Levi, and the Messiah was clearly supposed to be of the Davidic line. But the thing was, John the Baptist called himself “a Voice”, and God the Son was “the Word”.

Names are way more important than just an identifying label like they are in our culture, although that’s definitely helpful-- especially in the above examples. Names are very potent things, and you’ll often find people in the Bible receiving new names at an important junction in their lives. (Abram to Abraham, Sarai to Sarah, Jacob to Israel, Simon to Peter, etc.)

 

[po18guy]

Remember what a kerfluffle Jesus caused when he used the term “I am”. (Mark 14:61, for example.)

Not to mention the reaction of the armed crowd at Gethsemane when He used the Name as part of His own (John 18:4-6): “So Jesus, knowing well what was to befall him, went out to meet them; Who is it, he asked, you are looking for? Jesus of Nazareth, they answered; and he told them, I am Jesus of Nazareth. And there was Judas, his betrayer, standing in their company. When he said to them, I am Jesus of Nazareth, they all shrank back, and fell to the ground.”

Is this the normal reaction of an armed crowd?