Why are the New Age movement and other exotic ideas so attractive?

[StTommyMore]

Well it’s like this bud. If someone claims Catholicism is bad up of people that worship a cookie it is obvious they know nothing of Catholicism.

You claim Paganism is made up of immature people. This shows you are ignorant of the Pagan faith. Of course these kind of accusations are common and honestly I don’t care, you go on saying that. We will go on building our temples, building our seminaries, putting out our books and growing and growing. Next year we are projected to be the 3rd or 4th largest faith in America and by 2020 or 2030 the largest so yeah… Not bad for a bunch of immature children I’d say.

The fact that your entire argument is just insults and put downs (in fact most apologists “arguments” are just that) just tells me you really have nothing to bring to the table as a logical argument so you switched to ad hominems.

Every self-described pagan I have ever met has been an “adult teenager”. Do not presume to tell me what I do and don’t know. I investigated that nonsense for a while in my early 20’s. But I grew up.

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Return to the thread topic.

 

[Sunny_Swanblack]

Im afraid that was my reply, as to why its so attractive (for me at least)

 

[PRmerger]

Not sure if this is the correct forum, but here we go. The question I’m posing has really struck me for some time. I’ve wondered why all of these crazy ideas proposed by New Age “leaders” (for lack of a better word) and their followers are so attractive to people. I guess it’s true that in a way this reveals a great hunger in people for Truth and their purpose in life.

The last item that I emphasized here is truly affecting my sister. She’s been driving herself further and further away from the teachings of the Catholic faith and immersing herself into these New Age ideas. I guess I’m not even sure how deeply she is into this but I know that she’s always wondering about what her purpose is, that she is trying to find her “inner self”, and other stuff like that. She claims of having premonitions, visions, hauntings by demonic beings in her dreams, having a past life, belief in reincarnation, etc. etc.

I’ve been praying for her, but this is quite frustrating as she no longer has the desire to attend Mass. I don’t know what happened to cause her and her husband to no longer attend. Long story, but I thought I could start this discussion by asking the question I posed in this thread’s title.

The New Age movement is a way, echoing the “I’m spiritual but not religious” paradigm, to feel connected with God without having to change your life or obligate yourself to a change in behavior, or acknowledge “icky” things like sacrifice and sin, God’s judgment.

It’s a way of creating god in one’s own image and likeness, rather than conforming yourself to Truth.

One would think that any seeker would know, intuitively, that if she is following a path which does not obligate her to change her behavior, to sacrifice and to love, then it is a path she is creating in her own mind.

 

[Sunny_Swanblack]

The New Age movement is a way, echoing the “I’m spiritual but not religious” paradigm, to feel connected with God without having to change your life or obligate yourself to a change in behavior, or acknowledge “icky” things like sacrifice and sin, God’s judgment.

It’s a way of creating god in one’s own image and likeness, rather than conforming yourself to Truth.

One would think that any seeker would know, intuitively, that if she is following a path which does not obligate her to change her behavior, to sacrifice and to love, then it is a path she is creating in her own mind.

well in wicca at least theres the rede
“an it harm none do what thou wilt.
an it harm all do what you must.”

Then theres the law of threefold.

Theres so many different interpretations of morality,
For some its black and white, set on stone, its the rules in the book set out for you to follow.
For others its something that doesnt exist.
For others its made up in their head and they follow it.
But for me, its when you are pointed in the right direction and you walk the path, you make your own share of mistakes and its faith. Faith in yourself, and faith in the Goddess.
I dont think morality is black or white, but a complex and delicate balance of shades of gray. Im guided by the rede, law of threefold, my judgement, the actions of others under similar circumstance, and by my heart.
You seem to think that people need to have it set in stone. In black or white, on or off, with us or not with us.

In Wicca we strive to be more understanding, tolerant, and empathatic. It may not seem like a change for you, but its a change for us.

While your intuition might tell you one thing, someone elses intuition might tell them wholly another. Morality can have so many different meanings, more than I can put down, and life shapes us to be who we are. One mans trash is another mans treasure.
I see no reason to convert her because one disapproves. If she finds it fufilling and deep down she knows that this is her calling and her path then let her follow it. If you are concerned about morality then ask her what her interpretation is
You mightnt agree with it but if its her path, then its her path.

Blessed be.

 

[PRmerger]

In Wicca we strive to be more understanding, tolerant, and empathatic. It may not seem like a change for you, but its a change for us.

I can accept this, Sunny.

My question to you though is this: is there anything that you believe that you are called to do–because it’s the right thing to do–that you wouldn’t believe except that your goddess has called you to do?

If not, then I submit to you that perhaps you are only creating a false image of god in your mind–something that conforms to your own tastes and likes.

Reason tells us that if there is a god (or goddess), then her ways would not be our ways, yes?

 

[PRmerger]

While your intuition might tell you one thing, someone elses intuition might tell them wholly another. Morality can have so many different meanings, more than I can put down, and life shapes us to be who we are. One mans trash is another mans treasure.

In the area of social justice, then, Sunny, you would have a hard time telling a white supremacist that his views are wrong. You would not be able to tell a person who proclaims that women have no souls that he is wrong. You can not tell someone that even throwing a plastic soda bottle into the ocean is wrong…

because they’ll just tell you that this is what their “intuition” has told them is the right thing to do.

And in your paradigm, that’s all that is required.

 

[Sufjon]

The New Age movement is a way, echoing the “I’m spiritual but not religious” paradigm, to feel connected with God without having to change your life or obligate yourself to a change in behavior, or acknowledge “icky” things like sacrifice and sin, God’s judgment.

It’s a way of creating god in one’s own image and likeness, rather than conforming yourself to Truth.

One would think that any seeker would know, intuitively, that if she is following a path which does not obligate her to change her behavior, to sacrifice and to love, then it is a path she is creating in her own mind.

Hi PRMerger: You bring up a lot of interesting points (too many to touch on in one response). Moreover, I think New Age ideas have their roots on both your religion, mine and others as well. I am puzzled though about your comments on sacrifice, suffering and the like. Can you tell me what sacrifices these people are or are not making? I know some New Age type people, and insofar as they incorporate my religion into their lives, they are making sacrifices, and to me these look a lot like some of the sacrifices made in your religion. As for suffering, do we know what suffering they see and feel, and what suffering is humanity lacking that should be added?

Your friend,
Sufjon

 

[PRmerger]

Hi PRMerger: You bring up a lot of interesting points (too many to touch on in one response). Moreover, I think New Age ideas have their roots on both your religion, mine and others as well.

Indeed. Truly, there is nothing new under the sun. Heresies have existed from the dawn of God’s revelation.

I am puzzled though about your comments on sacrifice, suffering and the like. Can you tell me what sacrifices these people are or are not making?

Well, here’s one example: Let’s say that God has revealed that homosexual unions are contrary to his will.

Let’s say that I would prefer that to not be the case for I have many friends who are homosexuals and seem to be in loving relationships. I would love to be able to attend their “commitment” ceremonies.

So, rather than sacrifice my own beliefs and conform them to what God has revealed, I simply decide, “God didn’t really say that” and proclaim that God indeed applauds these type of unions.

This would be an example of re-configuring god to my own image and likeness, rather than re-configuring myself to God’s image and likeness.

 

[PRmerger]

As for suffering, do we know what suffering they see and feel, and what suffering is humanity lacking that should be added?

Your friend,
Sufjon

I don’t believe I mentioned suffering in my post. Rather, I talked about sacrifice, in the sense of obligating ourselves to do something we would rather not do, except for the fact that God commands it.

 

[Sufjon]

Indeed. Truly, there is nothing new under the sun. Heresies have existed from the dawn of God’s revelation.

Well, here’s one example: Let’s say that God has revealed that homosexual unions are contrary to his will.

Let’s say that I would prefer that to not be the case for I have many friends who are homosexuals and seem to be in loving relationships. I would love to be able to attend their “commitment” ceremonies.

So, rather than sacrifice my own beliefs and conform them to what God has revealed, I simply decide, “God didn’t really say that” and proclaim that God indeed applauds these type of unions.

This would be an example of re-configuring god to my own image and likeness, rather than re-configuring myself to God’s image and likeness.

Hi PRMerger: I see a lot of evidence that people of all stripes adjust their picture of God to fit the frame they bought, however, I think I was asking you a couple of points on suffering and sacrifice. Did you want to discuss that?

In regards to homosexual unions, we can discuss that, but I;d like to finish up the last point before going to the next if you are agreeable.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Sufjon]

I don’t believe I mentioned suffering in my post. Rather, I talked about sacrifice, in the sense of obligating ourselves to do something we would rather not do, except for the fact that God commands it.

Okay, that said, what sacrifices are other people not making? Can you point out in what ways you see these people as being slack in that regard?

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[PRmerger]

Okay, that said, what sacrifices are other people not making? Can you point out in what ways you see these people as being slack in that regard?

Your friend
Sufjon

I thought I did, Sufjon.

The sacrifice people are not making when they decide that God has to change his revelation to conform to their own. IOW, rather than sacrificing their paradigm they decide that they need not change it.

 

[PRmerger]

Okay, that said, what sacrifices are other people not making? Can you point out in what ways you see these people as being slack in that regard?

Your friend
Sufjon

I humbly submit that if a New Age practitioner is not uncomfortable with anything that she feels God has revealed, then she has re-created a god to fit her own tastes.

Would it not fit with reason that God’s ways are not our ways?

 

[Sufjon]

I thought I did, Sufjon.

The sacrifice people are not making when they decide that God has to change his revelation to conform to their own. IOW, rather than sacrificing their paradigm they decide that they need not change it.

Perhaps they are living in the way that they see as fitting what they feel God has revealed has to them. No one’s life gets an easier because they follow one set of rules vs another, nor does anyone’s life get any easier by living with no rules. If anything, it gets more complicated. I don’t think God prefers a monk over a car-jacker, but which one has a more harmonious life?

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[PRmerger]

Perhaps they are living in the way that they see as fitting what they feel God has revealed has to them.

Yes. But it’s possible that it’s a false image that they have created, no?

One indicator that it’s a false god they’re following, rather than the True God is if this god does not make any commands that are difficult to follow.

No one’s life gets an easier because they follow one set of rules vs another,

This is not true, in the sense that only when one follows God’s Way then one will find true joy and happiness. But you are correct that following God’s rules may make life uneasy. That’s my point.

nor does anyone’s life get any easier by living with no rules.

Clearly this is the recipe for living a life of chaos and destruction.

I don’t think God prefers a monk over a car-jacker, but which one has a more harmonious life?

God loves both infinitely, to be sure.

As far as who has a more harmonious life? Well, one would think it would be the monk, no?

 

[Sufjon]

I humbly submit that if a New Age practitioner is not uncomfortable with anything that she feels God has revealed, then she has re-created a god to fit her own tastes.

Would it not fit with reason that God’s ways are not our ways?

New Age practitioners seem to gather what they can from what they see like anyone else. I know a few of them who have adopted austerities from come from my faith that are probably not fitting to anyone’s tastes. They do them to get closer to God. They are by no means easy, so how are they any more slack than you? There are rigorous demands from my faith in terms of what I should and should not do. Most Christians I know wouldn’t even attempt them outside of Lent. Imagine giving up some of the things people give up during Lent for an entire lifetime. That said, this isn’t the spiritual Olympics where you can one-up someone by flogging yourself. It’s a matter of just doing what you can to find your way. That’s all. If you can do a lot, then you should do a a lot. If you can do very little, then you should do whatever you can.

Your friend,
Sufjon

 

[PRmerger]

New Age practitioners seem to gather what they can from what they see like anyone else.

Am I correct in understanding that you are saying that the pick and choose what they like from all religious traditions?

 

[PRmerger]

I know a few of them who have adopted austerities from come from my faith that are probably not fitting to anyone’s tastes. They do them to get closer to God. They are by no means easy, so how are they any more slack than you?

I am not clear about what you’re referencing. So I can’t answer how it’s easier or if I’m giving them more slack.

Could you be more specific?

 

[Sufjon]

Yes.

As far as who has a more harmonious life? Well, one would think it would be the monk, no?

Yes, that’s why you do what you can, and it should always be your best. If you get some rule wrong or see God a bit differently, He’'s not going to care so much. He has revealed Himself in countless ways to numberless people. None is more valid or less valid than the other. God has a relationship with me. It’s special, and I would never trade it for yours. Likewise, God has a relationship with you, and likewise that is special and you wouldn’t trade it with mine. If the only relationship that God felt was acceptable was the way in which He interacts with Catholics, then He needn’t have made me, yet here I am, and He is with me just the same. He always has been and always will be with me. I have no doubt. Yet, I don;t see Him as you do, and even so, I see Him every day. How can that be?

Your friend,
Sufjon