Why are the New Age movement and other exotic ideas so attractive?

[rinnie]

Regarding Christ and vegetarianism, I have no idea about that. I know that some Christians practice it on certain holy days. We just do it all the time. It is what God has called us to do.

Regarding homosexuality, I really don’t spend much time thinking about the sexual behavior of others. Any love based on marriage or kinship is a beginners level of love anyway. It’s a good starting place, because that’s where you learn how to love someone, but that’s only a start. Most people don’t move much past that. In my faith it s believed that my task is in fact to move past all that. Well past that. The point is, you start by loving someone. A man who loves a man more than another man has some growing to do. A man who loves a woman more than other women or other men also has some growing to do. The point is that in either case, they have at least learned to love someone. I know a woman who has only learned to love her cats. That is a start.

Your friend,
Sufjon

Hi Sufjon, it seems everytime I talk to you I am about to leave on vacation

But anyway the reason I disagree with what you are saying is one point. If a Man loves another Man in a sexual relationship this relationship is a sin. Why? Simply because it goes against Gods word. He created Woman for Man not Man.

While I agree love is a good thing, even a good thing can become a sin if we choose to take a good thing and use it as a sin.

It would be like me saying I love my best friends husband. That is not a good thing, or my best friend saying she is in love with my husband. That would be committing a sin. While having feelings for someone is a wondeful thing, sometimes it can be a evil and dangerous thing also. If those feelings are expressed it can break up family’s etc.

Just like a glass of wine in the evening is a good thing, if you drink it from morning to night it can become a bad thing also.

When you take something good and abuse it and it becomes a sin, it is no longer a good thing.

That is why we need our Church and our Lord to guide us into what is truth.

The word of God tells us the Church is the pilar of all truth. That is where we should seek truth. In the Church that was established by Christ. That is where truth lies.

 

[rinnie]

First of all you conveniently only quoted what would support you. Second of all, I would have a hard job convincing a white supremacist because im indian/malaysian.

Intuition is only an example that I used, here is what I originaly said.

What is relevant here is everything from the but (refering to quote) onwards.

I said morality for me was a delicate balance of shades of gray, im guided by the rede, the law of threefold, my judgement, the actions of people under similar circumstance, and by my heart. I forgot to mention, these as well earlier, other factors would be, the effects on others and their opinions should also be considered.

Throwing a soda bottle into the sea, is not intuition.
Its either laziness,ignorance or delibaretly wanting to harm the environment.

Saying women have no souls is not intution its belief in the topic.

White supremacy is an ideology, not intuition.

I would only intervene in the case of the soda bottle, because its an action that results in harm of the environment. I would then ask the person theur reasons behind it and usuallty in that case its simply because its conveineint.

Saying women have no souls is just some one saying something. If thats what he believes and its not harming anyone, ie killing a woman then using this belief to justify it then its okay as long as he keeps his mouth shut about it,if only because other men will object and if men have souls then presumably he will take their opinions into account. As long as he dont harm anyone, then let him think whatever it is he wants to think.

White supremacy is an ideaology, a theory not intuition. Personally as a colored person I couldnt really care less what he thinks of me and others. Im okay as long as he isnt harming anyone. Personally as long as hes harming no body and being civil, then I dont really mind what he believes.
Have you ever read the book rosies walk by pat hutchins? Its a good idea for when people are deliberatly trying to be offensive and not having civil debates like this one.

You just said the key word as long as it is not hurting anyone. But does not the theory of white supremacy cause alot of problems. When it is expressed does it not lead to hate crimes.

Sometimes it is the hate of one person that can form a group to cause others to hate also. It never comes out good. It always ends up in violence and hurt on both sides.

So my point is some of these ideas are simply not acceptable. To hurt anyone of any color or race or sex etc is simply unacceptable. And always leads to violence.

It is one thing to obey the commands of God, and yes many refuse to do so. But all we can do is live our lives the best that we can.

But when the trouble comes is when people try to play God themselves. When they try to lure people with them having the answers. People are going to the dark side as they say to find the light. Its not going to happen. There is no light in the dark.

 

[PRmerger]

First of all you conveniently only quoted what would support you.

Well, that’s what my intuition told me to do.

I hope that you’re not proposing that it was wrong, because it really harmed no one, eh?

Second of all, I would have a hard job convincing a white supremacist because im indian/malaysian.

This is hogwash. Only white people can preach the Gospel and convince others about its truth?

At any rate, regardless of your ethnicity, the point is that in your paradigm you (or any white practitioner) cannot tell someone he’s doing something that’s wrong.

And if you can’t tell a white supremacist that he’s wrong, the world is going to be a very, very sad place.

 

[PRmerger]

In a sense, I suppose, taking a stand or making a commitment on anything is being restrictive.

'Tis true, this.

Who decides whether these “gradations” cross the line?

But there are gradations, I believe. My perspective on the issue of G-d is encompassing other points of view: there are several paths to Heaven, so to speak, and no one has a monopoly on absolute truth.

But there is only One Path where God Himself came down to earth.

 

[PRmerger]

Throwing a soda bottle into the sea, is not intuition.
Its either laziness,ignorance or delibaretly wanting to harm the environment.

Do you not find the above to be a judgmental statement? You have no idea why someone might do this–how do you know this person did not search his heart and come up with some reason for his behavior? *You have no idea. *

Saying women have no souls is not intution its belief in the topic.

White supremacy is an ideology, not intuition.

This is a non-sequitor.

Regardless of whether it’s belief.ideology or intuition, the point is, some people have discerned that women have no souls and that the white race is superior.

In your ideology, you cannot tell them they are wrong.

In the Christian paradigm, we most certainly can.

 

[ManOnFire]

Greetings, meltzerboy! I appreciate your comments, but wonder if you see the irony in them?

You seem to be promoting a restrictive truth here: no one has a monopoly on the absolute Truth.

And another restrictive truth: there is One, true God.

And another restrictive truth: The true spiritual interpretation of Torah, probably the interpretation held by Jesus and the interpretation of famous rabbis such as Rabbi Akiva and Maimonides, gives us the allowance of individual conscience in deciding matters of morality in extenuating circumstances.

So why are the truths you proclaim liberating, but the truths proclaimed by, say, Catholicism restrictive?

The human desire to believe what we “feel like” and not believe that which we “don’t feel like” is the problem with modern society. Scarier still is the reality that many people mirror the values conveyed in the modern media to determine what they “feel like” believing and following rather than objective truth. Perhaps the best comparison is the most orthodox beliefs (and why) for the various religions. Otherwise, without a respect for objective truth, humans, given free will and the liberal education and media’s encouragement for individuals to create one’s own truth, individuals will become minigods of various belief systems who will only increase dissent between man and woman, and will drive people farther apart since the contrived beliefs of individuals are less likely to be the same beliefs held by others. This is why there is increasing polarization among individuals.

Food for thought: Pascal’s Wager: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager

 

[Sunny_Swanblack]

You just said the key word as long as it is not hurting anyone. But does not the theory of white supremacy cause alot of problems. When it is expressed does it not lead to hate crimes.

Sometimes it is the hate of one person that can form a group to cause others to hate also. It never comes out good. It always ends up in violence and hurt on both sides.

So my point is some of these ideas are simply not acceptable. To hurt anyone of any color or race or sex etc is simply unacceptable. And always leads to violence.

It is one thing to obey the commands of God, and yes many refuse to do so. But all we can do is live our lives the best that we can.

But when the trouble comes is when people try to play God themselves. When they try to lure people with them having the answers. People are going to the dark side as they say to find the light. Its not going to happen. There is no light in the dark.

I dont think you read it properly. Hate crimes = hurting people. I dont like the idea of white supremacy but as long as they dont express it around colored people, who may be upset by any number of racist insults, or dont form groups to ***** about us and kill/murder/harrass us… Then I dont really care as long as any violent thoughts inside their head, stay inside their head.

Light and dark analogy again? Once again shades of gray for me… But acting on white supremacy would be down the darker end.

I dont like discussing white supremacy, I was simply replying to an earlier post…
Racism of any sort if its expressed, is bad. But,the thing I found out the hard way a while ago is that you cant thought police peoples minds. Lets get this straight, most of the colored people I know really couldnt care.
If a person walked up to them and said “im a white supremist” .we would be fine with that because he hasnt insulted us or tried to harm us.
However if a person walks up to us and said, “im a white supremist, bow down before me you bloody pakie!” with a knife or something… Well thats quite different isnt it?

 

[Sunny_Swanblack]

Well, that’s what my intuition told me to do.

I hope that you’re not proposing that it was wrong, because it really harmed no one, eh?

This is hogwash. Only white people can preach the Gospel and convince others about its truth?

At any rate, regardless of your ethnicity, the point is that in your paradigm you (or any white practitioner) cannot tell someone he’s doing something that’s wrong.

And if you can’t tell a white supremacist that he’s wrong, the world is going to be a very, very sad place.

First of all I meant you twisted my words… Not that it was wrong, only that you twisted my words.

Second of all, no matter what I said to a white supremist he would only think… Its jist a pakie talking. People who think its their job to thought police… the world is not only going to be a sad place…

 

[Sunny_Swanblack]

Do you not find the above to be a judgmental statement? You have no idea why someone might do this–how do you know this person did not search his heart and come up with some reason for his behavior? *You have no idea. *

This is a non-sequitor.

Regardless of whether it’s belief.ideology or intuition, the point is, some people have discerned that women have no souls and that the white race is superior.

In your ideology, you cannot tell them they are wrong.

In the Christian paradigm, we most certainly can.

The above wasnt a judgemental statement. It was a statement based on the reasons behind those actions. One of my relatives loves to throw bottles in awkward places…simply because he can.

Laziness, if theres an empty bin two yards away and its simpler to.throw it?

Ignorance… They dobt know the harm it causes and it becomes evident when speaking tobthem.

Deliberatly wanting to harm the environment. Never come accross it before but its a possibility.

Yeas im not going to tell some one what they think is wrong unless they act on tge wrong impulses (ie wanting to murder someone is totally different from planning to murder someone)

 

[Holly3278]

As someone who has been previously involved in the New Age, I think the following are some reasons:

1. 
   *]Desire for more control than what we should have or Occult powers which are also idolatry.
   *]Desire to feel like we are gods or idolatry and pride.
   *]Desire to be able to commit that which we know are sins but which we don’t want to believe what are sins.
   *]A hardening of one’s conscience.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Not sure if this is the correct forum, but here we go. The question I’m posing has really struck me for some time. I’ve wondered why all of these crazy ideas proposed by New Age “leaders” (for lack of a better word) and their followers are so attractive to people. I guess it’s true that in a way this reveals a great hunger in people for Truth and their purpose in life.

The last item that I emphasized here is truly affecting my sister. She’s been driving herself further and further away from the teachings of the Catholic faith and immersing herself into these New Age ideas. I guess I’m not even sure how deeply she is into this but I know that she’s always wondering about what her purpose is, that she is trying to find her “inner self”, and other stuff like that. She claims of having premonitions, visions, hauntings by demonic beings in her dreams, having a past life, belief in reincarnation, etc. etc.

I’ve been praying for her, but this is quite frustrating as she no longer has the desire to attend Mass. I don’t know what happened to cause her and her husband to no longer attend. Long story, but I thought I could start this discussion by asking the question I posed in this thread’s title.

Hauntings? Demons? I mean no disrespect, but there might be cause for concern there - psychologically. Is she seeing things? Hallucinations?

In any event, I think it would be far better to speak to her and learn what’s going on, with GENUINE curiosity than to pray about it.

 

[PRmerger]

First of all you conveniently only quoted what would support you.

Well, using your own paradigm, “it harmed no one, so it’s not wrong”, eh? I don’t understand how you can point this out, as if it were wrong, yet also just minute earlier, post something which states that I most certainly can “conveniently only quote what would support” me, as it clearly “harms no one”.

Second of all, I would have a hard job convincing a white supremacist because im indian/malaysian.

It’s a good thing that Indian New Agers aren’t allowed to rule the world, because we’d have a lot of white supremacists given free reign to wreak their havoc and poison on the world. Indian/Malaysian New Agers apparently cannot tell an individual that his views are offensive and wrong.

What a sad paradigm this is that one would allow such poison to inhabit our Earth.

 

[PRmerger]

First of all I meant you twisted my words… Not that it was wrong, only that you twisted my words.

Well, if it’s not wrong, then why can’t I do it? Why even point it out?

Second of all, no matter what I said to a white supremist he would only think… Its jist a pakie talking. People who think its their job to thought police… the world is not only going to be a sad place…

Are you saying that my thoughts are wrong, Sunny?

It sure does seem that way!

Yet, in your paradigm, you really aren’t supposed to do that, right?

 

[PRmerger]

The above wasnt a judgemental statement. It was a statement based on the reasons behind those actions. One of my relatives loves to throw bottles in awkward places…simply because he can.

Laziness, if theres an empty bin two yards away and its simpler to.throw it?

Yet if his “heart” tells him that he can do it, and it harms no one, in your paradigm, you should allow him to do this.

Ignorance… They dobt know the harm it causes and it becomes evident when speaking tobthem.

Please tell me, Sunny, how throwing a plastic bottle in the ocean harms me. In fact, it actually helps me because then I don’t have to walk over to the trash bin and get exposed to the dirty germs that are there.

I have discerned that in my heart the best thing for me to do is throw a plastic bottle into the ocean. It made me feel much better about my situation. And isn’t that what matters most in your paradigm? How you feel about a particular action–what your heart tells you?

And, in your paradigm you *cannot tell me this is wrong. For it harmed not a single person, and it actually *helped me, right?

 

[ThatKrazyPagan]

Please tell me, Sunny, how throwing a plastic bottle in the ocean harms me. In fact, it actually helps me because then I don’t have to walk over to the trash bin and get exposed to the dirty germs that are there.

I have discerned that in my heart the best thing for me to do is throw a plastic bottle into the ocean. It made me feel much better about my situation. And isn’t that what matters most in your paradigm? How you feel about a particular action–what your heart tells you?

And, in your paradigm you *cannot tell me this is wrong. For it harmed not a single person, and it actually *helped me, right?

We are connected to the ocean. We eat the fish and we play on the beaches. Throw a plastic bottle in the ocean, you harm the fish, you litter the beach. You harm the environment enough and you don’t have fish to eat anymore. The harm you do comes back to you.

 

[PRmerger]

We are connected to the ocean. We eat the fish and we play on the beaches. Throw a plastic bottle in the ocean, you harm the fish, you litter the beach. You harm the environment enough and you don’t have fish to eat anymore. The harm you do comes back to you.

LOL! I can tell you quite definitively: I am not harmed–not a single bit–by my throwing a plastic bottle into the ocean. In fact, I am helped because it’s quite convenient.

Just like “no one is hurt” by a homosexual union. Or by viewing pornography. Or by using artificial contraception. Or by living together without benefit of the sacrament. Or by receiving the Eucharist in a state of mortal sin.

 

[Sunny_Swanblack]

LOL! I can tell you quite definitively: I am not harmed–not a single bit–by my throwing a plastic bottle into the ocean. In fact, I am helped because it’s quite convenient.

Just like “no one is hurt” by a homosexual union. Or by viewing pornography. Or by using artificial contraception. Or by living together without benefit of the sacrament. Or by receiving the Eucharist in a state of mortal sin.

Okay, so what about the fish? What about the animals in there that have a right to clean water? Rights go hand in hand with responsibilities.

Or do you simply not care? If it harm none… Well it doesnt just apply to humans.
I honestly dont think we are that different, theres a cycle of life and theres not causing suffering. It may not affect you, but it affects others (animal/plant/human) and you dont seem to care as long as it doesnt affect YOU. Altruism… Ever heard of it?

Yes im fine with same sex unions. Im bisexual.
Artificial contracrption is also fine. Abortions are awful because its murder.
Artificial contraception is fine ie condoms or anything that does not harm the zygot that will be a fetus
If all it does is prevent the sperm and egg from joining then its ok.

 

[PRmerger]

Okay, so what about the fish

Unless this little fish bonks his head on a plastic water bottle, I really cannot imagine how it “harms” the fish.

 

[GEddie]

Unless this little fish bonks his head on a plastic water bottle, I really cannot imagine how it “harms” the fish.

Q: What did the fish say when he swam face-on into a concrete wall???

A: “DAM!!!”

Sorry, couldn’t resist

God Bless and ICXC NIKA.

 

[Sufjon]

Unless this little fish bonks his head on a plastic water bottle, I really cannot imagine how it “harms” the fish.

Plastic soda rings, “baggies,” styrofoam particles and plastic pellets are often mistaken by sea turtles as authentic food. Turtles also eat jellyfish and often mistake plastic bottles for jellyfish. Clogging their intestines, and missing out on vital nutrients, the turtles starve to death. Seabirds undergo a similar ordeal, mistaking the pellets for fish eggs, small crab and other prey, sometimes even feeding the pellets to their young. Despite the fact that only 0.05% of plastic pieces from surface waters are pellets, they comprise about 70% of the plastic eaten by seabirds. These small plastic particles have been found in the stomachs of 63 of the world’s approximately 250 species of seabirds.

Wildlife is not the only area to suffer from the effects of marine debris. Plastic bags are the leading external cause of marine engine damage in Massachusetts. Other plastic items foul propellers and interfere with fishing tackle.

Now, if you are an Old Timey religious sort and feel you have the right to do whatever you feel to animals because you have some sort of dominion over them, the harm doesn’t stop there. Plastic photodegrades over time, breaking down into smaller and smaller pieces. It is also a sponge for toxins like PCBs and DDT. Marine life ingest these into their systems, and people in turn eat the marine life. The effects of these toxins can be disastrous on humans as well. The effects on cancer rates, early puberty, early menopause and many more recently observed trends in human populations are only now starting to be understood.

In the end, one careless person who doesn’t care causes little harm on the broader scale. Lots of careless people who don’t care cause a good deal of harm, and what goes around comes around. Karma is not a religious doctrine. It is an observable law of nature. The harm cause to other living things finds it’s way back to you in one way or another.

Sunny Swanblack will be happy to know that same sex unions have not as yet been linked
harming marine life , although abusive heterosexual relationships lead the way as a causal factor in psychological and physical harm to women and children. They significantly outpace same sex unions as a contributing enabler to domestic violence.

Your friend
Sufjon