Why are the New Age movement and other exotic ideas so attractive?

[GaryTaylor]

I’m sorry I haven’t read all the pages of this topic yet, but I can offer my two cents.

There are many reasons I now identify myself as pagan. What is perhaps the greatest draw off the beaten spiritual path is the self-discovery of it all. I have no church teachings, no spiritual leaders I answer to. I gather information from life experiences, from various religious texts, from various spiritual leaders, and from others following their own paths. I process that information, note what I think are good ideas, bad ideas, possibly true, or impossible. At the end of it all, I have a perfectly tailored religion for myself that is constantly changing and developing. I’m not a Wiccan or a reconstructionist or a Christian. I have animist leanings, do some minor magic (though some Wiccans would argue that it’s not magic because I don’t cast a circle), and believe in the equality of all humanity. I do not believe Jesus is the son of God, nor do I believe in hell. I do not believe most of what is in the bible, but see it as a collection of myths as useful as that of any other society or religion. I’ve yet to commit to many solid beliefs, preferring for now to consider what does and does not make sense (and honestly, fairies make more sense than hell to me), but that’s okay for pagans. Paganism does not demand that you know what you want to believe in right off the bat, and it’s okay to take your time.

So in other words you have your own developed faith which is ever evolving and based completely on your own thought process. So in essense there is no balance to right or wrong except what you deem that to be in your own mind.

In other words you could be 100% off the mark and continue to follow this path for years in error. And hopefully if all works out for the best which btw is unlikely than nothing detrimental will happen or occur. Yet from where you stand you may already have one foot in the bucket and dragging in the other and not even know it yet.

If you don’t believe in Good or evil, God or Lucifer why would you believe in the supernatural? What confirms its existence for you. What proves their is no God or satan?

Since you say you don’t believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then do you believe in God? Do you believe all the exorcisms preformed are fake? The Mystics of 2000 years all fake? The Seers, Prophets all fake? The multiple appearences of the BVM all fake? The Miracles performed by Jesus Christ all fake? The predictions of the Prophets 2/3 which already came true, all fake?

How did a man with no college education, never wrote a book or a song, never lead an army, become the most important figure to ever walk the face of the earth? And redefine Morality, changed the course of nations and of civil man. And whose message is still as relevant today as 2000-years ago? The most written about man in History. No one in History claims more biographys than Jesus Christ. No female claims more biographys than the BVM. No man or woman has been more venerated in the Arts than Jesus Christ or the BVM. Debated weekly in universitys worldwide and never attended college?

What would you say are the odds of all this being wrong, yet being a reality? And this is aside from the Bible and the prophecy of Israel which is so accurate at first it was believed the prophets wrote after the fact?

Just some questions to ponder my friend, just some thoughts to contimplate.

The more you research Jesus Christ the more profound His being becomes. No theologian or historian would deny that Jesus Christ was the most important figure that ever walked the face of the earth.

God Bless, Gary

 

[ThatKrazyPagan]

So in other words you have your own developed faith which is ever evolving and based completely on your own thought process. So in essense there is no balance to right or wrong except what you deem that to be in your own mind.

You missed the point about processing information from all facts, from many points of view. It’s far better, in my view, than relying on the teachings of just one point of view. There is much more balance to be had relying on your own experiences supplemented by many readings on morality than to just go “by the book.”

In other words you could be 100% off the mark and continue to follow this path for years in error. And hopefully if all works out for the best which btw is unlikely than nothing detrimental will happen or occur. Yet from where you stand you may already have one foot in the bucket and dragging in the other and not even know it yet.

What makes it unlikely that my path doesn’t work out for me? Because I don’t rely on a book or a specific leader? Also, “foot in the bucket”? I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that you think I’m hell-bound. You know nothing about me beyond the fact that I don’t take your book as truth. Even your church teachings say that others can be saved through other religions, so long as they are guided to do good in the world.

If you don’t believe in Good or evil, God or Lucifer why would you believe in the supernatural? What confirms its existence for you. What proves their is no God or satan?

It’s what I believe is possible and less possible. The bible is full of contradictions and teachings which are just reflections of backward culture from thousands of years ago in which wives must submit to their husbands and slavery is a-okay! I believe there may possibly be a god, gods, or other divine being. However, he/she/it/they is/are not likely 100% as the bible portrays. I don’t believe in the supernatural because I do not believe there is anything which is unnatural. If fairies, ghosts, demons, or spirits exist, they must be natural (or else they wouldn’t exist!). Like Anna, I’ve had a few inexplicable experiences that suggest something more than what science knows exists is active in our world. These are personal experiences, and they convince me of possibilities, but they will not convince anyone else. I even have my doubts about them, which is why I believe in possibilities, not “I absolutely believe fairies and ghosts and demons all exist!” It takes a lot to convince me to believe in something absolutely.

Since you say you don’t believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then do you believe in God?

Maybe.

Do you believe all the exorcisms preformed are fake?

Probably.

The Mystics of 2000 years all fake?

Yep.

The Seers, Prophets all fake?

For the most part. I believe that some of these people, Jesus included, like today’s Dalai Lama, do the best work they can to speak to the people they come from to make some good happen in the world. Sometimes they have important messages, but do I believe that they are 100% correct? Certainly not.

The multiple appearences of the BVM all fake?

Considering I’ve seen firsthand a poor sick woman raving about how Jesus came to her and told her to break into a house, definitely.

The Miracles performed by Jesus Christ all fake?

Yep.

The predictions of the Prophets 2/3 which already came true, all fake?

Yep.

How did a man with no college education, never wrote a book or a song, never lead an army, become the most important figure to ever walk the face of the earth? And redefine Morality, changed the course of nations and of civil man. And whose message is still as relevant today as 2000-years ago? The most written about man in History. No one in History claims more biographys than Jesus Christ. No female claims more biographys than the BVM. No man or woman has been more venerated in the Arts than Jesus Christ or the BVM. Debated weekly in universitys worldwide and never attended college?

Because the people who believed they were divine took power in the world. People in power are the ones who write the history books and control debate. If it were another group that took power, you can bet there would be more literature about someone else.

What would you say are the odds of all this being wrong, yet being a reality? And this is aside from the Bible and the prophecy of Israel which is so accurate at first it was believed the prophets wrote after the fact?

I’d say the odds are pretty good. You’d say different, but we’re talking about my beliefs here, right?

 

[Sufjon]

Lost Wanderer,
Did you actually read the article? The author gives an answer to the OP’s question: Why are the New Age movement and other exotic ideas so attractive?

"A Hunger for Experience

In the cases of young people who get involved in occultism or the cults, curiosity promises a release from listless boredom. Curiosity and boredom may lead to drugs, sex and crime. This combination may also lead to exotic religions, anything from playing with the seance to digging potatoes on a cult commune. Resting on a religious ignorance, the young may put their trust in the stars or submit slavishly to the smug nodding of a plump little Eastern guru. Those who were “into macrobiotic food” last year, may be “into Yoga” this year, and they may be “into spoon-bending, levitation and spiritualism” next year, and into a mental home the year after next."
Link: freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2446217/posts

Eastern religions are mentioned multiple times in the article as well as the spiritual dangers of the occult.

Anna

Whether or not the OPs questions are answered by the biased editorial you posted depends largely on whether or not you subscribe to the same opinions of the priest who wrote it. It is not a work of any factual or scholarly value, and reflects a profound level of ignorance in regards to eastern thought salted with typical arrogance and bias on the part of the author. He even used disparaging terms when describing teachers from other faiths, as in the passage about “plump little eastern gurus.” By the way, most gurus are rather emaciated, but I don’t know what that has to do with anyone’s level of spirituality. If it is relevant, than I hope he’s not overweight.

You do realize that this is in no way an academic work to be taken with any level of import, do you not? He also takes a dismissive view on things like yoga, and I doubt he even knows what that is. There are a number of components to yoga, which include devotion to God in one’s thoughts and actions, study of scriptures, austerities such as celibacy and non-violence, prayer and so on. That is what a yogi does. Would not a good catholic priest strive to practice the same things in his own rite in regards to his own religion? The people he is deriding are doing the same things he is **supposed **to be doing. He mentions digging potatoes in a commune.And what does it matter if one lives in a commune? Does the author live in a rectory or a monastery? Maybe that rectory has a garden behind it. Is that not communal living? Whether or not the author thinks his prayers or beliefs are any more valid in the eyes of God or correct is only a matter of opinion. He has nothing, absolutely nothing to base his religion on other than faith. That is all any of us have. Taking lightly what is sacred in the hearts of others is a sure way to separate yourself from others. When you separate yourself from others you have separated yourself from God.

Of course anyone can write an editorial. The scary part is that this man probably has a congregation somewhere or comes in contact with people in a spiritual role of some sort. Holy Orders come with no assurances as to the character of the person receiving them. A person finishing last in his class in medical school is still called “doctor.” Publishing an article doesn’t imply anything as to the veracity of the author.

Your friend,
Sufjon

 

[Denise1957]

I was listening to Catholic radio yesterday, and the speaker was Matthew Arnold, who is a convert to Catholicism from New Age beliefs. He recommended reading a Vatican document on the New Age movement, called, “JESUS CHRIST THE BEARER OF THE WATER OF LIFE: A Christian reflection on the New Age.” It’s quite lengthy, but a worthwhile read for those who want a good understanding of what the New Age movement is, and how Christianity is not compatible with it, from a Catholic perspective. It is respectful, though realistic (for those New Agers here who may possibly take offense easily).

Section 4 (scroll about halfway down the page) describes New Age techniques. It does not include all techniques, since there are so many. It then goes on to give the Christian response, in the second paragraph.

Link to Vatican document:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html#4 NEW AGE AND CHRISTIAN FAITH IN CONTRAST
.

Excerpt from section 4:

"The point of New Age techniques is to reproduce mystical states at will, as if it were a metter of laboritory material. Rebirth, biofeedback, sensory isolation, holotropic breathing, hypnosis, mantras, fasting, sleep deprivation and trancendental meditation are attempts to control these states and to experience them continuously. (70) These practices create an atmosphere of psychic weakness (and vulnerability). When the object of the exercise is that we should re-invent ourselves, there is a real question of who “I” am. “God within us” underline this question. Isolated individual personalities would be pathological in terms of New Age (in particular transpersonal psychology). But “the real danger is the wholistic paradigm. New Age is thinking based on totalitarian unity and that is why it is a danger…”(71) More moderately: "we are authentic when we ‘take charge of ourselves, when our choice and actions flow spontaneously from our deepest needs, when our behavior and expressed feelings reflect our personal wholeness.’ (72) The Human Potential Movement is the clearest example of the conviction that humans are divine, or contain a divine spark within themselves.

The Christian approach grows out of the Scriptural teachings about human nature; men and women are created in God’s image and likeness (Gen 1.27) and God takes great consideration much to the relieved surprise of the Psalmist (cf Ps. 8) The human person is a mystery fully revealed only in Jesus Christ (cf. GS22), and in fact becomes authentically human properly in his relationship with Christ through the gift of the Spirit.
(73) this is far from the caricature of anthropocentrism ascribed to Christianity and rejected by many New Age authors and practitioners."

 

[Denise1957]

Excerts from Vatican document regarding New Age beliefs, continued:

Also included in section 4:

"Do we save ourselves, or is salvation a gift from God?

The key is to discover by what or by whom we are saved. Do we save ourselves by our own actions, as is often the case in New Age explanations, or are we saved by God’s love? Key words are ‘self-fulfillment,’ ‘self-realisation,’ ‘self-redemption.’ New Age is essentially Pelagian in it’s understanding of about human nature.

For Christians, salvation depends on a participation in the passion, death, and resurrection of Christ, and on direct personal relationship with God rather than on any technique. The human situation, affected as it is by original sin, can only be rectified by God’s action; sin is an offense against God, and only God can reconcile us to himself. In the divine plan of salvation, human beings have been saved by Jesus Christ who, as God and man, is the one mediator of redemption. In Christianity, salvation is not an experience of self, a meditative and intuitive dwelling within oneself, but much more the forgiveness of sin, being lifted out of profound ambivalence in oneself and the calming of nature by the gift of communication with a loving God. The way to salvation is not found simply in a self-induced transformation of conciousness, but a liberation from sin and its consequences which then leads us to struggle against sin in ourselves and in the society around us. It necessarily moves us toward a loving solidarity with our neighbor in need."

Link to Vatican document on the New Age:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html#4 NEW AGE AND CHRISTIAN FAITH IN CONTRAST

 

[Anna_Scott]

Whether or not the OPs questions are answered by the biased editorial you posted depends largely on whether or not you subscribe to the same opinions of the priest who wrote it. It is not a work of any factual or scholarly value, and reflects a profound level of ignorance in regards to eastern thought salted with typical arrogance and bias on the part of the author. He even used disparaging terms when describing teachers from other faiths, as in the passage about “plump little eastern gurus.” By the way, most gurus are rather emaciated, but I don’t know what that has to do with anyone’s level of spirituality. If it is relevant, than I hope he’s not overweight.

You do realize that this is in no way an academic work to be taken with any level of import, do you not? He also takes a dismissive view on things like yoga, and I doubt he even knows what that is. There are a number of components to yoga, which include devotion to God in one’s thoughts and actions, study of scriptures, austerities such as celibacy and non-violence, prayer and so on. That is what a yogi does. Would not a good catholic priest strive to practice the same things in his own rite in regards to his own religion? The people he is deriding are doing the same things he is **supposed **to be doing. He mentions digging potatoes in a commune.And what does it matter if one lives in a commune? Does the author live in a rectory or a monastery? Maybe that rectory has a garden behind it. Is that not communal living? Whether or not the author thinks his prayers or beliefs are any more valid in the eyes of God or correct is only a matter of opinion. He has nothing, absolutely nothing to base his religion on other than faith. That is all any of us have. Taking lightly what is sacred in the hearts of others is a sure way to separate yourself from others. When you separate yourself from others you have separated yourself from God.

Of course anyone can write an editorial. The scary part is that this man probably has a congregation somewhere or comes in contact with people in a spiritual role of some sort. Holy Orders come with no assurances as to the character of the person receiving them. A person finishing last in his class in medical school is still called “doctor.” Publishing an article doesn’t imply anything as to the veracity of the author.

Your friend,
Sufjon

Sufjon,

I just quickly checked the threads I’ve been posting on. I have company coming this week and will be on vacation with family. So, probably won’t be posting much for a few weeks.

However, I do want to answer your post.

I posted the link to that particular article in an attempt to let Lost Wanderer see what people within his own faith have to say about the issues of our discussion.

As it turns out, the article did nothing to affect Lost Wanderer’s thinking on the issue. The only thing it seems to have accomplished is insulting you; and for that I am truly sorry. I do think the author could have conveyed a point without the derogatory comments.

Denise1957 did post quotes from the Vatican, which come from a more “official” source.

Please accept my most sincere apology for any offense I caused.

Peace and blessings,
Anna

 

[Sufjon]

Sufjon,

I just quickly checked the threads I’ve been posting on. I have company coming this week and will be on vacation with family. So, probably won’t be posting much for a few weeks.

However, I do want to answer your post.

I posted the link to that particular article in an attempt to let Lost Wanderer see what people within his own faith have to say about the issues of our discussion.

As it turns out, the article did nothing to affect Lost Wanderer’s thinking on the issue. The only thing it seems to have accomplished is insulting you; and for that I am truly sorry. I do think the author could have conveyed a point without the derogatory comments.

Denise1957 did post quotes from the Vatican, which come from a more “official” source.

Please accept my most sincere apology for any offense I caused.

Peace and blessings,
Anna

Hi Anna: No apology needed. I wasn’t insulted, but frustrated with the author of the article. My tone can be kind of gruff at times when replying to talking points, so my apologies in return if I have been unkind. Have a great time on your vacation and enjoy being with your company and family!

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Anna_Scott]

Hi Anna: No apology needed. I wasn’t insulted, but frustrated with the author of the article. My tone can be kind of gruff at times when replying to talking points, so my apologies in return if I have been unkind. Have a great time on your vacation and enjoy being with your company and family!

Your friend
Sufjon

Sufjon,
I’m so relieved to find your post. You were not gruff. All things considered, you actually took it pretty well.

Peace and blessings to you,
Anna

 

[cyberwolf001]

It seems that the attitude to Modern Paganism has been to mock it or pretend it is somehow not a real religion. Also there is a call to make Christianity / Catholicism purer, more strict and by the book.

For our part we just keep on growing and growing. Members come to use for many reasons, some are fed up with Christianity and have started looking else where for answers, many learn of us and realize deep in there hearts this is what they’ve always believed in anyway, just now they have a name for it.

For my part I came out of faith to my gods and so far the only challenge to it I’ve gotten is a very weak one. What if they are demons? Just think how this can apply to every faith on Earth.

 

[Denise1957]

“The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried.”
- G. K. Chesterton

 

[ThatKrazyPagan]

It seems that the attitude to Modern Paganism has been to mock it or pretend it is somehow not a real religion.

I’ve definitely come across this, though more harshly from atheist friends than religious ones. Some Catholic classmates have mocked paganism in front of me without knowing my ties to it, but my Catholic friends who know about my religion respect it.

 

[cyberwolf001]

“The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried.”
- G. K. Chesterton

Actually I did try it, and I found it wanting. I have found paganism difficult and rewarding.

 

[StTommyMore]

Actually I did try it, and I found it wanting. I have found paganism difficult and rewarding.

Balderdash. How can a do-it yourself religion be difficult? How can the only religion in which God has fully revealed himself to man be found wanting?

 

[Jayne_L]

There is no accountability in ‘new age’… its all you are one with God… there is no hell… no satan … ect…

You are just energy and blah blah blah.

I got into to it… when I saw how empty and ridiculous it actually was, I became a Catholic.
So… it was good for something.

Here is a video of the typical new age nonsense…pay this guy money and he will stare at you, giving you his positive energy.

[youtube.com/watch?v=eT-M4f(name removed by moderator)Lo&feature=player_embedded](

(name removed by moderator)Lo&feature=player_embedded)

I realise I’m seriously late to this thread and I’m replying to a post on page one, but that’s just freaky!

 

[cyberwolf001]

Balderdash. How can a do-it yourself religion be difficult? How can the only religion in which God has fully revealed himself to man be found wanting?

POPPYCOCK! How can a religion in which everything you have to do to make it to paradise is laid out in black and white be difficult? How can the religion in which the Gods have fully manifested themselves to humanity and continue to interact with them be found wanting?

See I can do it too. Now got anything of substance my friend?

Now maybe this isn’t the most mature response but I hope it makes my point.

 

[ThatKrazyPagan]

Balderdash. How can a do-it yourself religion be difficult? How can the only religion in which God has fully revealed himself to man be found wanting?

Because you have to actually study a LOT to be well informed in your decision. Of course, you could just choose to be Wiccan and read one or two books and call it a day, but there are those of us who work very hard to come to the best truths we can find. Your patronizing comment shows that you know nothing about paganism.

 

[SteveVH]

POPPYCOCK! How can a religion in which everything you have to do to make it to paradise is laid out in black and white be difficult? How can the religion in which the Gods have fully manifested themselves to humanity and continue to interact with them be found wanting?

See I can do it too. Now got anything of substance my friend?

Now maybe this isn’t the most mature response but I hope it makes my point.

It’s what is contained in the black and white that makes it difficult, my friend, such as “take up your cross daily and follow me.” “Return good for evil.” “Love your enemies.” That is not easy for anyone, yet it is necessary if one follows the path of Christ.

 

[Sunny_Swanblack]

Im a wiccan and I can tell you exactly why I follow this path. I was raised a hindu, and I attended mass for over a year simply because I was trying to find that which resonated. I appreciate the ideology of Catholics but then I discovered Wicca.
This felt so unbelievably right and true, like waking up from a dream which had imprusoned me for so long. Like I had been wandering aimlessly for many years and I had finally come home. We live in harmony with the earth to the vest extent of our abilities. We do not seek power over others, we live by the Rede.
I have been practicing for over a year and I am a Dianic Wiccan.
Most of us are perfectly happy and spiritualy content in our faith, we dont want/need to be converted to any other religon, I do understand where you are coming from.

Blessed Be
Sunny.

 

[StTommyMore]

Because you have to actually study a LOT to be well informed in your decision. Of course, you could just choose to be Wiccan and read one or two books and call it a day, but there are those of us who work very hard to come to the best truths we can find. Your patronizing comment shows that you know nothing about paganism.

Paganism is made up nonsense adhered to by teenagers rebelling against their parents, or, if adults, people who never managed to mature past adolescence. The key to paganism is there is no authority, and therefore no responsibility. Do not presume to tell me what I do and don’t know. You have never met me, and you claim to know me by reading one post? Such hubris. I repeat: paganism ios made up nonsense. especially for those who claim to be “druids.”

 

[cyberwolf001]

Paganism is made up nonsense adhered to by teenagers rebelling against their parents, or, if adults, people who never managed to mature past adolescence. The key to paganism is there is no authority, and therefore no responsibility. Do not presume to tell me what I do and don’t know. You have never met me, and you claim to know me by reading one post? Such hubris. I repeat: paganism ios made up nonsense. especially for those who claim to be “druids.”

Well it’s like this bud. If someone claims Catholicism is bad up of people that worship a cookie it is obvious they know nothing of Catholicism.

You claim Paganism is made up of immature people. This shows you are ignorant of the Pagan faith. Of course these kind of accusations are common and honestly I don’t care, you go on saying that. We will go on building our temples, building our seminaries, putting out our books and growing and growing. Next year we are projected to be the 3rd or 4th largest faith in America and by 2020 or 2030 the largest so yeah… Not bad for a bunch of immature children I’d say.

The fact that your entire argument is just insults and put downs (in fact most apologists “arguments” are just that) just tells me you really have nothing to bring to the table as a logical argument so you switched to ad hominems.