One should be good because it is what we were made for, Sufjon.
I would be very careful here, friend. You are getting quite close to violating the rules of the CAFs for contempt for Catholicism.
It isn’t a question of being “more” genuine, as if a quality like this could be quantified. “I’ll say you only had 5-units of genuine and I require at least 10-units to sit at this table!” May be a way of putting a specific focus on where such an approach may leadi, Sufjon. And, that would be a problem when it comes to implementation. Yes, we must want to do good - and, avoid evil - but, it is the reason behind our actions that makes all of the difference. The Ancient Greeks were concerned about their ‘good reputation’ and to be held in the high regard of others. Christians truly focused on Christ wish to serve Him from love - those with less a focus wish to avoid Hell - but, the focus is there on Christ, and that is what is important.
Hold on a minute, Sufjon, what is the basis for calling Paul ‘sociopathic’. This looks like an adverb for ‘sociopath’ so let’s take a look at that as a concept. Here is the linka for making such a psychiatric diagnosis from the DSM-iv criteria: mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html. As an RN with three years in acute psychiatric nursing, I can tell you Paul was not sociopath. But, you go through this list, pick out the behavior you think qualifies him as such - give the citation and we can proceed from there. Him arresting Jews who defected to Christianity and bringing them back to Jerusalem to stand trial where they were then probably executed does not quality. Paul was acting under orders from the governing authority of the Jewish religous officials. He had the power of law behind his actions. He also thought He was serving God in what he did.
From someone claining to be studying Christianity - you have to start expanding your readings of St. Paul. The voice of Christ was heard by those accompanying Paul to Damascus, but apparently no one else saw anything. Christ spoke with Paul on serveral occasions and the Holy Spirit guided his routes - or blocked them as the case may be. Now, you are certainly free to believe whatever you want - but, if you are going to pitch out St.Paul then you are leaving out most of the NT writings. And, truly, it would be an honor to have St. Paul visit with me and my family.
Regarding Paul, I don’t think there are any other eye-witness accounts of his Damascus road experience, but if you read Acts chapter 9, you’ll see that there is an account of the disciple of our Lord named Ananias, and how he baptized Paul (formerly Saul). I’ll back up a little bit. Paul was left blinded by the experince of our Lord speaking to him on the road to Damascus, and he had to be led by his hands by those in his company who were also going to Damascus. He was in Damascus for three days, blind and unable to eat anything. After three days, our Lord appeared to Ananias in a vision, in Damascus. Our Lord told Ananias to go to a certain street and house where he would then find Saul of Tarsus. Ananias became concerned because he had heard of Saul, and said…“Lord, I have heard by many of this man, and how much evil he had done to they saints in Jerusalem. And here he hath authority from all the cheif priests to bind all that invoke thy name.” And the Lord said to him…“Go thy way, for this man is to me a vessel of election, to carry my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel. For I shall show him what great things he must suffer my name’s sake.”
PR, inspired in the sense of me, Matt, saying it should have been included in the late 4th century compilation of the Bible? No. But there are writings that can inspire me, PR, beyond those books which were put in back then. I’d have to read it to be able to answer whether it gave me any inspiration or not.
Yes you said something along the lines of how peculiar it was that non Catholics quoted the Bible but did not accept an infallible Catholic Church. But after rereading your post, I see you were not advocating that they quoted from the exact same version, considering the differences in books of versions as out friend tqualey pointed out.
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But, unlike Servant of Good Fulton Sheen - Nurmbers is one of the God breathed books of the Bible. And, the real issue here is that God’s Word is guaranteed in the Bible, while no such guarantee exists with Sheen’sYes you said something along the lines of how peculiar it was that non Catholics quoted the Bible but did not accept an infallible Catholic Church. But after rereading your post, I see you were not advocating that they quoted from the exact same version, considering the differences in books of versions as out friend tqualey pointed out.
It’s similar to when I read the Bible, PR, whether it’s one of my versions approved by the USCCB or my NKJV. Or one online. Often I have to reread it to grasp my understanding. So once in awhile I even have to reread your posts too, PR.
Exactly. It was only through the infallible authority of the Catholic Church that you know what’s* theopneustos* or not.
Yes, that’s why I try to use the word theopneustos, to differentiate between “inspirational” and inspired.
Thanks Tom. While I have another version approved by the USCCB, I actually have used the NAB site a good bit when quoting Scripture here on the forum. It is a nice site with a Catholic Bible quickly assessible. I just figure it is sometimes best to use a source those I am having discussions with relate to. I am very hesitant to use say my NKJ version for instance when quoting Scripture to Catholics.Hi, CMatt25
You brought up several good points that I would like to make a modest contribution to.
There truly is a necessary distinction between an ‘inspirational’ work and an ‘inspired’ work. I have been listening to lectures from the late Archbishop Fulton Sheen (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulton_J._Sheen) - and, if you are interested, his lectures are available download. Seriously, he was a gifted and inspirational speaker (and, writer, too!)
I know I probably won’t get much of an argument that the Book of Numbers is probably about as arid as any book ever written!
The practical applications of this may seem a bit obscure - but, for the early Catholic Church who had just come out from almost routine murderous persecutions - the challenge was to identify those Books that God has inspired a human author to write - and not some other work that may be ‘inspirational’ - but not ‘inspired’. A good example would be the Didache (newadvent.org/cathen/04779a.htm) that was ‘inspirational’ and practical, too - but, not ‘inspired’. Unaided, 5th Century man would not be able to make such a determination - and, don’t forget, there were fraudulent works written by the Gnostics attempting ot deceive the followers of Christ. The Catholic Church about the year 400AD established the Canon of Sacred Scripture containing all of the inspired works of God, determined that the entire work was inspired, set the Books in a proper order and ruled that any works that were not in this Canon were not inspired. And, that is what we have to this day. In fact, here is a link to the entire on-line Bible from the USCCB: usccb.org/nab/bible/index.shtml You see… I spared no expense!
But, having the approved version is of little comfort if you do not understand what it says - or - there is a dispute about what is being said. What is really needed is an authority that can make a totally correct pronouncement on what something means - and No One Else Has This Quality - except the Catholic Church. We know this from the words of Christ who told the Apostles (the First Bishops of the Catholic Church) “He who hears you hears Me” (Luke 10:16, John 5:24)
The interface with this and New Age is a little difficult for me to describe. When you look around, with everything in flux - the doctrines of the Catholic Church are very stable … while New Age is searching for self-fulfillment by hugging trees, venturing with a mentor into the wilderness of self-expression and self-understanding, decrying the despoiling of nature when it should be enthroned - and then there is the philosophy, music, art and drugs that make this such an temporarily enriching and almost instantly fulfilling activity. As I understand it - without the latter, very few would be drawn to New Age.
Ultimately, for those truly seeking genuine fulfillment - they find out it does not lie in self - but in the Other, as St. Augustine found out. Like with anything else - look at the outcomes from these - or, any other group.
God bless .
Sheen I have some familairity with but honestly have not been a student of his over the yrs to comment on much about him. I am glad you find such inspiration however in his talks. God bless you!.PR, we have had this discussion on other threads. God bless you with a wonderful week. Peace be with you.Exactly. It was only through the infallible authority of the Catholic Church that you know what’s* theopneustos* or not.
So here’s the question again of consistency in one’s paradigm. How and when do you discern when the CC got it right and when she got it wrong?
What is the canon you use to determine if she’s right?
It seems you believe she got it right in excluding the GofT. Why do you believe that?
Yep, and my question remains unanswered, besides the nebulous, vague, "“I have faith in what I believe in because I have faith.” Or “God lets me know.”
Yes you are right. I was reading about the differences between Christianity and New Age and one is that while we believe in One Christ, New Agers believe there are many christs.
Yes, this is a good list of differences that you’ve provided here. They show why New-Age beliefs are not compatible with Catholicism. The one listed above which says: “New Age - deny sin, imperfect knowledge” is prevalent in many New Age groups. For some groups, like gnosticism (though there are different gnostic schools of thought) there is an emphasis on the only real sin as being that of lack of spiritual “knowledge.” Or even “secret knowledge.” This is a sad thing, because those adherents will spend their entire lives looking for the secret knowledge, which keeps them in a state of continual searching, rather than being in a continual state of trying to conform to God’s will for us, and staying in a state of grace, as well as learning to love God with all of our heart, mind and soul, and our neighbor as ourselves - which, I find, is a real challenge.
Amen!
I’m so glad that you were able to turn back to Catholicism. I was a difficult case. I think that God allowed a terrible crisis to enter into my life, which caused me finally to turn away from New Age beliefs and toward the Catholic faith, though making a long stop with Protestantism along the way. New Age beliefs were woefully inadequate to help me. I know that some here will say that New Age beliefs have helped them through a crisis, but not with me, and not with those New-Agers whom I still know and care about.Amen!
(by the way, I also dappled in new age ideas for a while, looking for secret knowledge. When I finally realized how empty and futile my life was without God, I turned back to Catholicism.)
Yes, New agers tend to think that no one is a sinner, and there is no such thing as sin. Once we realize that we are all sinners, it is so obvious that we need our Redeemer.
I found this quote: “Humility is not self-loathing. It’s seeing yourself as you are: a child of God who’s maybe got some issues to work out, a child of God nonetheless.”
I’m glad you are a Catholic now too. There is no doubt in my mind that it is the true path.I’m so glad that you were able to turn back to Catholicism. I was a difficult case. I think that God allowed a terrible crisis to enter into my life, which caused me finally to turn away from New Age beliefs and toward the Catholic faith, though making a long stop with Protestantism along the way. New Age beliefs were woefully inadequate to help me. I know that some here will say that New Age beliefs have helped them through a crisis, but not with me, and not with those New-Agers whom I still know and care about.
I like your quote about humility!
PR, your questions have rarely gone unanswered unless I accidentally miss one. Or you asked something that had already been answered.
And God bless you PRMerger in yours.Hello Christine:
Well, yes, with a nebulous, “God does it when I pray and meditate” kind of answer. Like I said, your answer is about as satisfactory as a parent telling a 12 year old when asked how babies are made, “God does it somehow.” Yipes! No 12 year old is going to accept that! No matter how true it is that “God does it somehow.”PR, your questions have rarely gone unanswered unless I accidentally miss one. Or you asked something that had already been answered.