Why are the New Age movement and other exotic ideas so attractive?

[PRmerger]

Your previous facination on other threads of me and Fred Phelps aside,

Er, Matt, dear. You have followed me on this thread.

The facts make it appear as if you’re stalking me, not the other way around.

I got here on May 14.

You came…when? After searching where I’d been posting perhaps?

Nevertheless, I think you’re cute, so you’re welcome to keep following me on my threads.

I’m also posting here, just to make things easier for you to follow me.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Hello Christine:

-Insofar as New Age religions might borrow from Eastern religions (they also borrow from Christians), there is no salvation offered in Eastern thought, as we do not believe that anyone is lost.

-As far as harnessing the power of God for any of one’s own purposes, that does not come from Eastern thought.

-As far as sin goes, in the east sin is thought to be when one is out of alignment with the proper order of things. If it is better to see someone as bad, well you can see it that way if you like. No person is totally bad, nor is any person totally good. The point is that every person should do their best, but they should do so out of love, not fear. Since in the east there is no salvation and no threat of being lost, it think it would follow that the ground is much more fertile for being good out of love, rather than fear. If we are truly honest with ourselves, I think we have to concede that once the idea of the potential fear and retribution are introduced into the mix, I think it would be hard to say in any introspective way or with any certainty how much of one’s goodness is out of love and how much is out of fear. If it’s out of love, then why even mention the threats in the first place, right?

-Moreover, most people who have any sort of religious convictions feel, or at least hope that what they have is the truth. You selected what faith you have because it made sense to you, or resonated with you, or maybe you were raised in it. Such is the case with most people I would think. Because what one person thinks is different from what another thinks doesn’t make either of them “made up.” Each has done their best to arrive at what they feel is the truth. Some cite Apostolic succession, while other just cite Jesus, and still others see it all fitting in another context all together. To me, what Jesus said matches well with things that were said by others many years before His birth. You see it as matching what church fathers saw. Because to me He fits into a broader context doesn’t make your version made up. You did your best to follow what you thought was true. I think it is the same for most everyone.

Your friend
Sufjon

Hi Sufjon,

I don’t think Hinduism is particularily New Age, although new agers did borrow some things from it and add it to their hodgepodge.

Sin is actually out of alignment with God’s plan for mankind. That means that there is a natural order to what God created and there are basic laws that mankind should follow. However each person cannot come up with his own set of rules as to what is right and wrong, because that is chaotic. As for love, yes we are to love our fellow humans, who are indeed not either all good nor all bad, mostly we are all sinners, but we are to love the sinner - not his sins.

I don’t know why there is no such thing as salvation or redemption in your religion. It seems to be a rather hopeless religion. Rather empty and impersonal, come to think of it, kind of like new age philosophy!

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Sufjon,

I think it is fair to characterize this post as Relativism put into action. We are all about the same, with about the same insights and energies and we will all try hard to find our own way… and we will all probably succeed at whatever we do or believe in - because, in the long run, distinctions do not nake that great a difference after all.

You may find this link sheds some additonal light on what you seem to be proposing: catholicexchange.com/2005/04/19/92600/

Read it and let me know what you think of it.

God bless

Hello Christine:

-Insofar as New Age religions might borrow from Eastern religions (they also borrow from Christians), there is no salvation offered in Eastern thought, as we do not believe that anyone is lost.

-As far as harnessing the power of God for any of one’s own purposes, that does not come from Eastern thought.

-As far as sin goes, in the east sin is thought to be when one is out of alignment with the proper order of things. If it is better to see someone as bad, well you can see it that way if you like. No person is totally bad, nor is any person totally good. The point is that every person should do their best, but they should do so out of love, not fear. Since in the east there is no salvation and no threat of being lost, it think it would follow that the ground is much more fertile for being good out of love, rather than fear. If we are truly honest with ourselves, I think we have to concede that once the idea of the potential fear and retribution are introduced into the mix, I think it would be hard to say in any introspective way or with any certainty how much of one’s goodness is out of love and how much is out of fear. If it’s out of love, then why even mention the threats in the first place, right?

-Moreover, most people who have any sort of religious convictions feel, or at least hope that what they have is the truth. You selected what faith you have because it made sense to you, or resonated with you, or maybe you were raised in it. Such is the case with most people I would think. Because what one person thinks is different from what another thinks doesn’t make either of them “made up.” Each has done their best to arrive at what they feel is the truth. Some cite Apostolic succession, while other just cite Jesus, and still others see it all fitting in another context all together. To me, what Jesus said matches well with things that were said by others many years before His birth. You see it as matching what church fathers saw. Because to me He fits into a broader context doesn’t make your version made up. You did your best to follow what you thought was true. I think it is the same for most everyone.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Sufjon]

Hi Sufjon,

I don’t think Hinduism is particularily New Age, although new agers did borrow some things from it and add it to their hodgepodge.

Sin is actually out of alignment with God’s plan for mankind. That means that there is a natural order to what God created and there are basic laws that mankind should follow. However each person cannot come up with his own set of rules as to what is right and wrong, because that is chaotic. As for love, yes we are to love our fellow humans, who are indeed not either all good nor all bad, mostly we are all sinners, but we are to love the sinner - not his sins.

I don’t know why there is no such thing as salvation or redemption in your religion. It seems to be a rather hopeless religion. Rather empty and impersonal, come to think of it, kind of like new age philosophy!

Hi again Christine. My religion is full of rules, albeit for different reasons I suppose. Tell me of you would why you would see Hinduism as a hopeless religion. I an honestly fascinated that you would think that, so could you tell me why?

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Sufjon]

Hi, Sufjon,

I think it is fair to characterize this post as Relativism put into action. We are all about the same, with about the same insights and energies and we will all try hard to find our own way… and we will all probably succeed at whatever we do or believe in - because, in the long run, distinctions do not nake that great a difference after all.

You may find this link sheds some additonal light on what you seem to be proposing: catholicexchange.com/2005/04/19/92600/

Read it and let me know what you think of it.

God bless

Hi tqualey; I read the article. You asked what I think. I think the Pope is doing his best to defend and protect what he feels to be true. Relativism would indeed seem to threaten all that. Since I have nothing to lose, I also have nothing to defend, but I can certainly understand his POV.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[CMatt25]

Er, Matt, dear. You have followed me on this thread.

The facts make it appear as if you’re stalking me, not the other way around.

I got here on May 14.

You came…when? After searching where I’d been posting perhaps?

Nevertheless, I think you’re cute, so you’re welcome to keep following me on my threads.

I’m also posting here, just to make things easier for you to follow me.

:blushing: aww PR I don’t know with 100% certainty if I’m all that cute. But I digress.

Actually there is a Unity Church near me that seems to have somewhat of a draw and I had thought they were considered new age. So I saw the thread and happened to have stumbled upon you. Which likewise it is of course usually a pleasure to do so except perhaps once in awhile when you ask me the same questions and I have to repeat my same answers an infinite number of times.

But peace be with you always. :hug1:

 

[PRmerger]

:blushing: aww PR I don’t know with 100% certainty if I’m all that cute. But I digress.

Actually there is a Unity Church near me that seems to have somewhat of a draw and I had thought they were considered new age. So I saw the thread and happened to have stumbled upon you. Which likewise it is of course usually a pleasure to do so except perhaps once in awhile when you ask me the same questions and I have to repeat my same answers an infinite number of times.

But peace be with you always. :hug1:

So indulge me then, friend. What is the canon/yardstick that you use to discern when the Church has got it right and when she is wrong?

Please try to use a criterion that is not vague and nebulous, and one that also allows you to say that Fred Phelps et al are wrong even if they do pray and claim to be guided by the HS.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, CMatt25,

Hey, you want 100% certainty…? I’ll give it to you: you ain’t that cute!

Now, get back to some serious posting… and just answer PRmerger’s question!

God bless

:blushing: aww PR I don’t know with 100% certainty if I’m all that cute. But I digress.

Actually there is a Unity Church near me that seems to have somewhat of a draw and I had thought they were considered new age. So I saw the thread and happened to have stumbled upon you. Which likewise it is of course usually a pleasure to do so except perhaps once in awhile when you ask me the same questions and I have to repeat my same answers an infinite number of times.

But peace be with you always. :hug1:

 

[PRmerger]

Hi, CMatt25,

Hey, you want 100% certainty…? I’ll give it to you: you ain’t that cute!

Now, Tom, you just made me spit out my milk in laughter!

 

[PRmerger]

Actually there is a Unity Church near me that seems to have somewhat of a draw and I had thought they were considered new age.

Ah. So you’re looking for a church that conforms to your beliefs?

Does anyone else see something wrong with that paradigm?

So I saw the thread and happened to have stumbled upon you.

Well, there’s nothing wrong with seeing who’s online and checking out what thread she’s on. I’ve been known to do that a time or two.

 

[CMatt25]

Hi, CMatt25,

Hey, you want 100% certainty…? I’ll give it to you: you ain’t that cute!

Now, get back to some serious posting… and just answer PRmerger’s question!

God bless

Tom, PR might have been sipping milk but I had just set down a Mt Dew. The canon/yardstick you used to make that certain judgment of belief though?

:newidea: You and PR will have to search my answer. The Lord knows I have given it to her (PR that is) enough recently. :grouphug:

 

[CMatt25]

Hi, Sufjon,

I think it is fair to characterize this post as Relativism put into action.

Tom, you make the word “relativism” to sound like it’s such a dirty word. But it’s not. Sufjon was correct by saying, if I understood correctly, that folks do their best to follow what they believe is true. That’s what faith is. God bless you in yours and everyone along their faith journeys in search of the truth.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, PRmerger,

Now, please, swallow all food … you have to have a lot of imagination to do the “Heimlich maneuver” over the net! Here… just in case it is needed: americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4605 Now, on to the topic…

You have absolutely no appreciation how difficult it is to actually do this! Really!!!

Ah. So you’re looking for a church that conforms to your beliefs?
Does anyone else see something wrong with that paradigm?

First of all, one must be relatively sure of one’s own beliefs - at least at that time. New ideas are always coming in … and, let’s face it, old beliefs do get a threadbare around the sleeves and elbows and other people do notice one’s archiac beliefs! But, this is nothing when compared to finding a group or congregation that actually is in agreement with what one is currently believing!!!

Chances are there is never a 1:1 type relationship with total agreement. At least I do not think this is common given the 30,000+ denominations out there right now!

I would think that one would need to have more than 50% agreement between a chruch’s teaching and one’s own nearly infallible personal beliefs. How would it look to be in the pew flipping a coin to see if the preacher was going to agree with your opinions or not! I would think that most would like 90% or better - but, given human nature … a passing score of 70% - just like in school - is probably what is needed.

But, then we find ourselves back to getting new thoughts… and that puts a entirely new strain on one’s current church. Given that there are 30,000+ competing denominations that differ on every major and minor point imaginable - except one - you see the difficulty one has in finding a church with at least that 70% agreement. The time consumption takes place is that most preachers only preach on Sundays - so the other six days of the week one is left sifting out rumors on who is teaching what. Yes, this leads to itchy ears - but chances are, St. Paul did not know about Benadryl…!!!

So, I think in fairness, criticizing those who seek a church after their own fancies appears to lack both sensitivity and ‘niceness’ - and does nothing to promote Relativism!! Shame on you for such a lack of sympathy… Oh, and the only thing the 30,000+ agree on… is that the Catholic Church is wrong…

Now, you can go back to milk (got cookies? ) I certainly would not want you to choke on this tongue-in-cheek post.

God bless

 

[PRmerger]

:newidea: You and PR will have to search my answer. The Lord knows I have given it to her (PR that is) enough recently. :grouphug:

Matt, I am appealing to you as a friend and sister in Christ to indulge me. Please repeat your answer for me.

What is the canon/yardstick that you use to discern when the Church has got it right and when she is wrong?

Please try to use a criterion that is not vague and nebulous, and one that also allows you to say that Fred Phelps et al are wrong even if they do pray and claim to be guided by the HS.

Please?

 

[CMatt25]

Ah. So you’re looking for a church that conforms to your beliefs?

Looking for what church? Unity? No PR. I never said I was looking to join Unity. Of course indeed I’m a huge advocate of unity in Him, PR. But the Unity Church as I understand it is probably not traditionally mainline enough for me to look to join it. Just as there are things about Unitarian Universalists that I respect. The acceptance and openness they exemplify I have the utmost regard for. I’m not currently looking there either though. But if other folks find a spiritual home and God’s love in either, then that’s certainly fine with me. Who am I to judge? Where 2 or 3 are gathered in His name, there He is with them in their midsts! Peace.

 

[PRmerger]

Now, you can go back to milk (got cookies? ) I certainly would not want you to choke on this tongue-in-cheek post.

God bless

Tongue firmly planted in cheek, ala President Obama?

The Telegraph US - Breaking news, opinion & analysis

 

[CMatt25]

Matt, I am appealing to you as a friend and sister in Christ to indulge me. Please repeat your answer for me.

What is the canon/yardstick that you use to discern when the Church has got it right and when she is wrong?

Please try to use a criterion that is not vague and nebulous, and one that also allows you to say that Fred Phelps et al are wrong even if they do pray and claim to be guided by the HS.

Please?

PR, I’ve indulged you plenty on the forum already with my answer to your same question on other threads. Speaking to you about faith, conscience, belief, prayer, study, sincere attempts to discern. And yet about how you can believe I’m wrong. And both of us can believe Phelps is wrong. And Phelps might say both of us are wrong.

But after repeatedly answering, you said you do not understand. And at one point I can only guess because you do not understand me, you even accused me of allowing injustice towards homosexuals and other races because I disagree with Fred but in the end, short of doing something like plucking his eyes out, I saw no way of forcing him to change his beliefs to mine. Nor to yours. I said I could tell him I disagree just as you tell me you do not agree with me. But in the end I have to agree to disagree with Fred Phelps and that made you mad you said.

So why would I indulge you again with the same answers here? Just so you can say you still do not understand and continue to call my criterion vague and nebulous, and so forth. We go in circles and at some point I just sometimes have to say folks just might not understand another in matters of faith. And that’s just the reality of faith and belief to me.

And it’s past my bedtime as it is so I am heading there now. Have a good night. And peace and understanding. I trust we shall meet again on another thread. God bless.

 

[PRmerger]

So why would I indulge you again with the same answers here?

You disappoint, brother. :sad_yes:

Incidentally, when you do address my questions I acknowledge and thank you for that. To wit:

You posted:

I don’t know if this answer will satisfy you or or not. Or if you will say it is a non-answer as well. But I have always to this point in my journey at least, just accepted the Blessed Mother was a virgin. But if the Church did not teach that, my brain might say otherwise

.

(note, folks, that it only took 3 pages of my asking)

and I answered:

Yes, this is an answer! Thank you.

 

[mangy_dog]

Because the multi-tentacled beast of the “new age” massages the hedonistic ego of our modern society.

You deserve better; you are entitled; it is your right; you are better than; they’re wrong-you’re right; it goes on and on.

No one (save a small few) is interested in the “Good News” or “The Sound Doctrine”.

The world, the flesh and the devil have desensitized us to the point of accepting doctrines of demons.

We look for the exotic; the strange; the new’; the exclusive; the trendy; instant gratification. No one wants to pray the Rosary or go to Confession or go to Mass. No interest in a life of prayer and a life of the spirit - nutured by the Sacraments.

This is a huge subject and at the center of the New Age movement is Lucifer.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Mangy Dog,

I would say this is really a great summary!

The history of God’s interaction with humans - as recorded in the Bible - has a long and amazingly consistent approach that unfolds to even the causual reader: we can not stay focused on God!

Now, staying focused on a fertility god and goddess, sacrificing babies (and today it is unborn babies) and worshipping Mammon who looks remarkably like George Washington is what we are doing today. Some want to criticize this - and worship Nature, Mother Earth and go out and find a tree to hug as a demonstration of oneness with everything! Ah, and then there are those who desire the Eastern flavor of distraction… to ‘curry’ favor wih their gods, various systems of navel gazing and the loss of self in something else.

It really is just too big a thought: the Creator of the entire Universe - loved us so much that He sent His only begotten Son to earth to die for our sins. All are redeemed through the Blood of Jesus Christ. But, some will reject this tremendous love - and find Lucifer more than willing to provide earthly distractions for an eternity of his pleasures in tormenting us for foolishly following him

God bless

Because the multi-tentacled beast of the “new age” massages the hedonistic ego of our modern society.

You deserve better; you are entitled; it is your right; you are better than; they’re wrong-you’re right; it goes on and on.

No one (save a small few) is interested in the “Good News” or “The Sound Doctrine”.

The world, the flesh and the devil have desensitized us to the point of accepting doctrines of demons.

We look for the exotic; the strange; the new’; the exclusive; the trendy; instant gratification. No one wants to pray the Rosary or go to Confession or go to Mass. No interest in a life of prayer and a life of the spirit - nutured by the Sacraments.

This is a huge subject and at the center of the New Age movement is Lucifer.