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Bradski
Guest
Well said, Leo.
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inocente
Guest
I’m still trying to understand the claim that those who wrestle out the morality for themselves are disabling their consciences, while those who follow a rulebook, which any computer can do, are somehow enabling their consciences.How is it even remotely rational to substitute the moral relativism of your conscience for the teachings of Christ and his Church?
Because Christ and his Church are not convenient for your moral relativism?
You’re just not recognizing the monarchy of Christ the King, are you?
You want to vote on whether Christ was wrong in what he taught, whereas your conscience is right.
Just not your day is it?
As for who is holier than who, anyone actually obeying scripture would have to vote for executing gay men, as God specifically orders in Lev 20:13. Inconvenient, these little facts, aren’t they? Just not your day is it?
A lot of Christians are fed up with being told we’re not following Christ unless we twitch the curtains worrying about what the neighbors are doing in private. The NT hardly mentions sex, yet that’s all we keep hearing, as if Christ is some medieval puritan. The gospel is about mercy not joylessness, treating others with respect not squashing them underfoot. It isn’t about becoming slaves to others’ diktat of who we can and can’t be. Girl power! Black is beautiful! Sing if you’re glad to be gay! Amazing grace! Etc, etc.
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inocente
Guest
Really? So would you say women are not permitted to speak in Church but should ask their husbands at home (1 Cor 14), and those who are slaves to Christian masters must serve them all the more (1 Tim 6), while anyone who believes women are as good as men and is against slavery has disabled their conscience?
You may not intend it but that sounds somewhat legalistic, like an evangelical.
Jesus was against legalism. In his parable summing up the law, the priest and the Levite get it wrong by following rules, then the Good Samaritan (a tribe Jesus’ audience hated) gets it right by not following any rules, and Jesus says ‘Go and do likewise’.
I don’t see the claim that morality is static. Was the Church morally wrong to burn heretics at the stake? Or was it right back then, and now wrong not to burn them anymore? Or, does morality change?
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inocente
Guest
Errr…Citizens have the right to work and to vote, and the duty to pay taxes and abide by the law.
That doesn’t include 18-month-old girls does it?
You insult non-Texans just because we don’t hear of your little local news items.
You insult all your fellow citizens who didn’t vote how you want.
You insult all gay and lesbian citizens.
And finally you insult another poster.
You can easily find a number of polls, here’s the first 5 hits when I googled:
freedomtomarry.org/resources/entry/marriage-polling
pewresearch.org/topics/gay-marriage-and-homosexuality/
reuters.com/article/2014/02/26/us-usa-gay-survey-idUSBREA1P07020140226
quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=1961
huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/08/catholics-gay-marriage-support_n_2835847.html
Your entire case appears to be insulting everyone you possibly can. Don’t post to me again!!!
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tskrobacz
Guest
Very simple…pride is the Sin of the Devil and the worst of the 7 deadly sins. It affirms how diabolical this condition can be.
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Sarcelle
Guest
Do you know married heterosexual couples also have anal sex?What do you have against machine parts fitting together?
Do you think it’s rational and pleasing to force machine parts that don’t fit into each other?
One thing is rather likely: the vast majority of heterosexual humankind do not think it rational, pleasing, or sane to to force a penis up an anus.
If you do and you also disapprove then I will agree with you. Anal sex is a health hazard, no matter who is participating in it.
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ricmat
Guest
First of all, this has nothing to do with women versus men. BTW - I’m gathering from your posts that you are female - whereas I previously thought you were probably male. Sometimes I miss obvious clues, so please pardon me in that case.Really? So would you say women are not permitted to speak in Church but should ask their husbands at home (1 Cor 14), and those who are slaves to Christian masters must serve them all the more (1 Tim 6), while anyone who believes women are as good as men and is against slavery has disabled their conscience?
Women are as good as men, but different than men. This is one of the purposes of Genesis 2 being in the bible (details on the creation of Eve.)
You bring up a point which is important to clarify, and I’ll try my best, but will probably open a can of worms. I better understand where you’re coming from now, I hope.
I think you might be confusing “disciplines” with “dogma.” Disciplines can change with the times, dogma cannot.
For example, Paul defines one of the characteristics of a good Bishop / Priest as “being married only once” and as you know, currently married priests are not allowed. The marriage status of priests can change with the times since it is a discipline, not a dogma.
A concrete example of a dogma is that Christ is indeed God. This will not change with the times.
The examples you list above are “helpful hints for living a good family life in 40AD.” They are not dogma, but at the time they made more sense than they do now.
It might be good for everyone involved in these discussions to differentiate between discipline and dogma (and there may be even another category that doesn’t come immediately to mind). Unfortunately, I can’t think of a list of dogmas to refer to… Perhaps others know of a concise list???
The Samaritan was following the rule to love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus did not say to stop following the rules. Jesus did not say that the other rules should be ignored. The 10 commandments are still in effect. The beatitudes go beyond that to show us an even more perfect way to build on the commandments, not to replace them. Jesus did not give them a dispensation to not follow any rules.
Yes, the church was wrong to burn heretics at the stake (although it was VERY rare). It would still be wrong.
Those persons who make up the church are not perfect. The church exists as a hospital for sinners, not a club in which only perfect persons are allowed. People have done awful things in the past, and will continue to do awful things in the name of the church, or Christ, or God. Many Catholics will find their way to Hell.
The one thing that is static is the dogmatic teachings of the church, because these represent eternal truths, not just “a good idea for this time in history.”
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DrTaffy
Guest
Ironic response from one prone to rants, and very averse to answering questions.
As you avoid Bradski’s question above:
What is it with this fixation on anal sex?
Seriously, what? Gay pride parades are hardly parades for anal sex.
Half of homosexual couples never have anal sex because they are lesbians!
1/3 of gay male couples don’t have anal sex (apparently)
1/3 of heterosexual couples do have anal sex (apparently)
So overall, 1/3 of heterosexual couples have anal sex and 1/3 of homosexual couples have anal sex, and there are far far more heterosexual couples than homosexual couples.
So please stop slavering and drooling about anal sex on every thread about homosexuality.
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
I will answer for him. Anal sex whether between homosexuals or heterosexuals is just plain wrong. Actually I think it is worse between heterosexuals because the woman obviously has the correct opening for the penis, whereas in homosexuals there may be some confusion where to put it.
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Winterwolf00
Guest
So what?
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Winterwolf00
Guest
And you base this number on what?
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Winterwolf00
Guest
Why?
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Winterwolf00
Guest
Why is it wrong?I will answer for him. Anal sex whether between homosexuals or heterosexuals is just plain wrong. Actually I think it is worse between heterosexuals because the woman obviously has the correct opening for the penis, whereas in homosexuals there may be some confusion where to put it.
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Winterwolf00
Guest
Because quite frankly it’s quite disturbing.Ironic response from one prone to rants, and very averse to answering questions.
As you avoid Bradski’s question above:
What is it with this fixation on anal sex?
Seriously, what? Gay pride parades are hardly parades for anal sex.
Half of homosexual couples never have anal sex because they are lesbians!
1/3 of gay male couples don’t have anal sex (apparently)
1/3 of heterosexual couples do have anal sex (apparently)
So overall, 1/3 of heterosexual couples have anal sex and 1/3 of homosexual couples have anal sex, and there are far far more heterosexual couples than homosexual couples.
So please stop slavering and drooling about anal sex on every thread about homosexuality.
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Joie_de_Vivre
Guest
Actually it was morally just to do so and the arguments still hold theological water.
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ricmat
Guest
The majority of heretics were burned at the stake by secular authorities because they threatened the secular establishment, not because they threatened the church. I see no theological reason for the church to burn heretics at the stake.
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ricmat
Guest
This involves a long explanation which can be found at this link from the Catechism:
scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm
If you read it, even if you disagree, you might understand the Catholic position better.
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ricmat
Guest
Personal experience. One example, I teach confirmation classes at our parish. We have 225 teens in our class, and only a handful of them go to Mass every week (a requirement of the Catholic faith). Why don’t they go? Because their parents don’t go. When I talk to catechists in other parishes, it’s the same story.
Also, there have been some surveys of thousands of younger (under 30) Catholics in which they described their own degree of Catholicity (not the actual word, but I don’t remember the actual word). By their own ratings, NONE were able to describe themselves as devout, although they call themselves Catholic.
In our parish (which has 10’s of thousands of registered parishioners) not one person signed up for a bible study class we tried to get going last year.
etc.
Of course, as I stated, it is an estimate.
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Winterwolf00
Guest
No murdering people for holding different beliefs is act of savagery.
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Bruised_Reed
Guest
AIDS can also be contracted through vaginal sex and rectal tearing and bowel incontinence (the latter was mentioned on a different thread) are most commonly diagnosed in women, particularly after childbirth. These examples aren’t the best argument against anal sex or and are not persuasive at all against gay pride parades.
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