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CHRISTINE77
Guest
Pride is one of the deadly sins. Pride cast Satan into Hell. Pride goeth before a fall.
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
How is it even remotely rational to substitute the moral relativism of your conscience for the teachings of Christ and his Church?
Because Christ and his Church are not convenient for your moral relativism?
You’re just not recognizing the monarchy of Christ the King, are you?
You want to vote on whether Christ was wrong in what he taught, whereas your conscience is right.
Just not your day is it?
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
The most perverse kind of Pride is shameless Pride parading itself down 5th Avenue.
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ricmat
Guest
Well, firstly, we were talking about God’s rules, not mine.
When someone thinks for themselves, follows their conscience, and comes up with a conclusion opposite of God’s rules, I’d say that would be a good example of a disabled conscience.
Yes, the process of preparing for the coming of Christ, the “last Word”, there was a gradual change in the moral laws. An eye for an eye…is actually an improvement over the normal ways of that time, where it was “off with your head if you offend me in any way.”
To quote another example is Christ’s response about bills of divorce. Moses allowed his people to divorce because of their hardness of heart. And Jesus went on to say that divorced and remarried people were in fact committing adultery. And Jesus said this with authority (since he is God).
Jesus’ word is the final authoritative word. There is no new revelation since the death of the last Apostle (John). It doesn’t change with the whims of the times. Right and Wrong do not change because of a majority vote of the people. That didn’t work in Sodom and Gomorrah, and it doesn’t work here either.
Part of Adam and Eve’s original sin is that they wanted to define for themselves what is good and what is evil. That tendency has unfortunately been passed on to us all. Because it’s a built-in tendency doesn’t mean that we have to succumb to it. But knowing that it exists, we must try by asking for God’s grace to overcome it.
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Leo2014
Guest
Very true…but you know as well that Catholics / Christians divorce rate is just as high (if not higher) than those in the secular realm. I agree that marriage is a covenant that should be kept between a man and a woman.
But what is your point? We should question everything - this isn’t CCD class. If we have all these standards established for us by Christ but we do little to adhere to them than it is pointless to announce them simply for the sake of judging others?
For society, moral law does change through history. The example of slavery is one. There was a time that even good Christian people did not seem to have a problem with slavery. Through the course of events it was judge to be wrong. Hence, standard were changed and today we see it as a moral wrong to enslave our fellow brethren.
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unstoppable_II
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Government cannot treat every citizen exactly the same. How do you treat an 18-year-old man the same as an 18-month-old girl? “There is a tendency for a principle to expand beyond the limits of its logic,” said Justice Benjamin Cardozo. That is exactly what we have here, a principle expanded beyond its logical limits. Government is obligated to treat people as similarly as possible only those who are in substantially similar circumstances. Heterosexuals and homosexuals are nowhere near in similar circumstances.
How society is affected by a change in family structures is not off topic. The lesbian mayor of Huston recently demanded that pastors and ministers turn over their sermons and homilies to the city government, and you don’t see how that kind of government overreach affects everyone? I can see you have a lack of abstract thought problem.
So … what? A majority of voters re-elected obama.
Look. You “can’t see” but you think Americans should re-arrange their society to accommodate a disorder? Gimme a break. The burden of proof is on the advocate of social change not the defender of the status quo. Up to, and including now, all you have offered are a couple of opinion polls which you pulled out of your head. If that’s all you can offer in the way of proof, don’t bother replying to this post.
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ricmat
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So, do God’s morals - as revealed by Christ, change, or not?
We all should be slaves to God’s word. Is that wrong because society says it’s wrong?
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unstoppable_II
Guest
Just not your day is it?
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Leo2014
Guest
Enlighten me…
What I am saying; it’s the way we convey the message and the way others perceive what we are stating is not what we conceive. Yes, the Bible states; an eye for an eye. But I would think that most of us these days find that rather barbaric and are quick the reference were the Lord states; Love thy neighbor. However, we are quick to over look that one because it is just so much more gratifying for us to inflict punishment it feeds the devil within us that wants revenge. It is so much harder for us to say; I forgive you and truly feel it in our hearts and than embrace the serenity.
We are not “slaves to God’s word”, we should be. If this was the case, none of us would be sinners. Humility is a hard one for us to embrace. It is so much easier for us to point out the problems in the world than to face the ones dwelling in our hearts. The reality is that people do not see us for the saint that we proclaim to be.
Therefore, to answer your question; God’s morals don’t change…but hopefully we do…for the better.
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Joie_de_Vivre
Guest
LGBT people have also faced and overcome adversity.
Sam sex marriage doesn’t lead to the patriarchal principle and thus your argument is null.
Do you think the lesbians and bisexual women in a gay pride parade are marching for anal sex? How about the gay men who don’t engage in gay sex? You are attacking a strawman.That people voluntarily stop engaging in anal sex, both for the public safety and for the sake of their immortal souls. Also that they stop marching for anal sex as if that were something to brag about. Is that such an irrational request in your book?
Come on, put **your **cards on the table. Do you think anal sex is something to celebrate?
Not everything is reducible to it’s base components.What do you have against machine parts fitting together?
Do you think it’s rational and pleasing to force machine parts that don’t fit into each other?
One thing is rather likely: the vast majority of heterosexual humankind do not think it rational, pleasing, or sane to to force a penis up an anus.
Sodomy also includes oral sex, why do you fail to include that?
Your argument makes as much sense as using an explanation of why not to put diesel in a gas engine to argue against E10.
In modern English the sin is better treated as hubris as the word pride has changed significantly whereas hubris has not, indeed it is the Greek word for it in the Bible
Actually Catholics are tied with atheists for lowest divorce rate.
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unstoppable_II
Guest
I didn’t say that it did. But it will lead to some other form of despotic, oppressive society. We have an example in the recent lesbian mayor of Huston. So my argument is not null.
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ricmat
Guest
I mentioned eye for an eye only in the context that Inocente brought up changing morals prior to Christ. Are you thinking that I’m supporting revenge here? I’m not!
Of course I agree. It was poor phrasing on my part. No one is perfect, though we should try to be.
Uhh…I don’t proclaim to be a saint. I proclaim to be someone who wants to be a saint, and help others become saints. Sometimes difficult true things need to be said, and not doing so out of fear of offending someone surely will not help them.
Our problems vs. other’s problems – This isn’t an either / or situation. Of course we must face the problems in our hearts. I’m not smart enough to know what those problems are sometimes, and it takes someone else to let me know about it. If you’re trying to say that one must be perfect before admonishing others, then I must disagree. That certainly wouldn’t have been good for me.
It was a rhetorical question.
If you go to Mass regularly, you might have heard this at some point:
Reading 1 EZ 33:7-9
Thus says the LORD:
You, son of man, I have appointed watchman for the house of Israel;
when you hear me say anything, you shall warn them for me.
If I tell the wicked, “O wicked one, you shall surely die, ”
and you do not speak out to dissuade the wicked from his way,
the wicked shall die for his guilt,
but I will hold you responsible for his death.
But if you warn the wicked,
trying to turn him from his way,
and he refuses to turn from his way,
he shall die for his guilt,
but you shall save yourself.
PS there’s a longer version at EZ 3:18-21
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
Okay Gay Hubris Parade.
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Joie_de_Vivre
Guest
It’d still be “Gay Pride Parade”Okay Gay Hubris Parade.
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unstoppable_II
Guest
Whatever you call it, it is still intended as a poke in the eye of heterosexual America.
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Bradski
Guest
What is it with this fixation on anal sex?That people voluntarily stop engaging in anal sex, both for the public safety and for the sake of their immortal souls. Also that they stop marching for anal sex as if that were something to brag about. Is that such an irrational request in your book?
Come on, put **your **cards on the table. Do you think anal sex is something to celebrate?
It simply cannot be because you are interested in any way about sexual health. There is zero evidence for that. Otherwise perhaps you could point me to the posts where you have raised equal concern about any of the many STDs that are prevalent in the heterosexual community? Where are the many words you have written on the requirement for sex education? Where are the threads you have started about using precautions such as condoms to protect against STDs?
There are none, because you are not interested in the subject. It’s a glaringly obvious to anyone who reads your posts that you use it as an excuse for your incessant anti-gay stance.
Neither are you interested in the mortal souls of those involved. Otherwise you would be showing equal concern for any heterosexual people who might be having sex outside of marriage or even inside marriage with no thought of conception. But perhaps you are. In which case please point me to the posts where you have expressed at least equal concern for the wellbeing of your fellow man.
But again, there are none. Because you are not interested in their immortal souls. It is another excuse for your stance.
I think you enjoy the righteous indignation. I think you feed off your anger. You don’t want anything except to be able to shout out - look at these people! See what they do! Aren’t you as disgusted as me? We must stop this!
But the majority of people, even the majority of Catholics think: What on earth is the matter with this guy? Why the fixation with sex? Why the constant posts about what two men (forget the women!) might be getting up to in bed? How on earth can someone be remotely interested in what others do between the sheets?
But the marches. Ah, yes, the March For Anal Sex that apparently swings past your house on a weekly basis. Men (forget the women!) demanding, yes - demanding, the right to have anal sex. Well, maybe you could take some time from writing about it and have a word with some of them next time they march pass and tell them: ‘Hey - it’s legal these days. Apparently, America and every single civilised country on the planet has decided that what type of sex you have and with whom is no longer a concern to the legislative, judicial or executive branches of government so…you’ll be pleased about this…there’s no need to march any more!’ They’ll thank you for it.
While you’re at it, you can tell them about safe sex practices. You know, do something practical about sexual health. I know you’re so keen on it. And if they are interested (but only if they are interested) you can explain that God considers homosexuality to be abhorrent and it might be better if they married a nice girl and only had sex when they wanted to make a baby.
It would be killing four birds with one stone (Count 'em! Four!). No more marches, safer sex and maybe some of them will see the error of their ways and start looking for a nice girl with whom to start a family.
And the fourth? Well, it’ll convince anyone reading about it that you do have their best interests at heart after all. Because no-one believes it for one second at the moment.
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
I ask you if anal sex is something to celebrate and you give me this insufferable rant?
Answer the question!
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Joie_de_Vivre
Guest
Have you stopped beating your wife?
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Bradski
Guest
Sorry, I thought it was a hypothetical as I’m not aware of anyone who does celebrate it and I’ve watched a few of the Gay Mardis Gras in Sydney over the years. In fact, my daughter joined some friends on a float last year and her husband and his mate drove it in the parade. I’m pretty certain she would have mentioned it if particular sexual practices were a specific part of the celebration.
What she took part in and what everyone watched was the celebration by gay people of all walks of life (including floats with gay police and one with gay members of the armed services) of the fact that they didn’t have to hide their sexuality. That they weren’t going to get physically and verbally assaulted just going about their everyday, 9 til 5 boring old existence like the rest of us do.
They were celebrating the fact that the vast majority of people don’t these days don’t concern themselves with what type of sex they have or whether they are a danger to children or that they are any more likely to be spreading sexual diseases throughout all of Christendom than anyone watching the parade (although, as you might be aware, there are still exceptions to this).
They were celebrating the fact that people now realise that being gay is not a perversion. They were celebrating the fact that they don’t have to lie about how they feel about members of their own sex. They were celebrating freedom from bigotry, freedom from fear, freedom from hate.
And what do you see. Charles? You see a celebration of anal sex. Good grief…
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Leo2014
Guest
One point of criticism that I have heard from non-believers about Catholics & Christians is their self righteousness. Of course we cannot wait until we are perfect before admonishing others. However, we always seem to forget to make the disclaimer that we are sinners as well and also have struggles of our own.
In regards to Gays having a parade, we have to understand their struggles. Now don’t interrupt this as us needing to surrender our beliefs. But there are practical needs that they should be entitle too - such as healthcare, estate transfers or any other legal services. Unfortunately, the only way these services have been available between two people has been through the bonds of marriage.
It may be semantics to some, but I don’t believe that we should use the term “marriage” when describing a union between two people who are not of faith. As much as we disagree religiously about that lifestyle of those that are gay, in a free society, we have to respect that they also have inalienable rights to some of the same services that the rest of us enjoy.
Yes, there are moral issues that conflict with traditional values. Obviously, admonishing people does not work. The challenge is how do we effectively share our message.
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