Why are there "Gay Pride Parades" ?

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As long as they peacefully express this opinion, then yes. The same for white supremacists, and any group which professes unpopular views. It is fine to engage with a civilized exchange of ideas with them, as long as they are also willing. I want to emphasize: expressing their views but not acting on them.

The freedom of the proponents of unpopular ideas also protects you, just in case your ideas become unpopular.
You are correct here.

And we are agreed that it’s generally not a good idea to interfere with other people’s lives (unless they give you permission).

I don’t believe anyone has posited that forcing one’s way into another’s lives is a moral imperative.

HOWEVER: it is a morally good thing for all of us, Christians or non, to stop the spread of morally repugnant ideas.

What would you do to stop the spread of the morally repugnant idea that God hates homosexuals (let’s just presuppose that you believe in God, ok?)

Do you sit passively by and allow this vile paradigm to proliferate?
 
You are oh so transparent at changing the subject. I’ll ask again.

Are you and Baptists generally O.K. with sodomy? If so, how do you deal with St. Paul’s quotes given earlier in Romans and Corinthians?

Are you O.K. with the sodomites who get AIDS and pass it on to other sodomites? :confused:

Are you O.K. wkith rectal tearing?

Would you agree that it’s against common sense to engage in anal sex, whether homosexual or heterosexual?

If you don’t agree, why? What benefit is obtained from anal sex?
A substantial percentage of gay men and almost all lesbians completely abstain from anal sex. It is a strawman to even discuss anal sex as an issue. As far as STDs go, it is promiscuity, not homosexuality, that is the concern there. Two homosexual virgins having sex with each other in a committed relationship would not lead to a risk of HIV transfer.

We really need to actually discuss the actual issues if we want to change hearts about gay sex. If we go on strawman arguments or use highly offensive terms like “sodomite” or “homosexual lifestyle” we have zero chance.
 
You are correct here.

And we are agreed that it’s generally not a good idea to interfere with other people’s lives (unless they give you permission).

I don’t believe anyone has posited that forcing one’s way into another’s lives is a moral imperative.

HOWEVER: it is a morally good thing for all of us, Christians or non, to stop the spread of morally repugnant ideas.

What would you do to stop the spread of the morally repugnant idea that God hates homosexuals (let’s just presuppose that you believe in God, ok?)

Do you sit passively by and allow this vile paradigm to proliferate?
Excellent. No one needs my permission to do anything. Meaning the public in general. And we need to speak up. The words right and wrong, good and bad still exist. And let us all realize that opinions are not the truth - not always. The truth is the truth.

Human Decency rests on common ideas of morality. Human Dignity rests on a proper understanding of Human Dignity. Human Degradation is Human Degradation.

Peace,
Ed
 
Gay folks are still particularly victimized by violent crimes and treated with hatred, so I understand why they would want to come together and march for an end to hate.

What I do not understand is why anyone would otherwise want to march on behalf of their sex lives.
And there’s the rub. If one marches because one is proud of being a sodomite, the pride becomes more an evidence of trying to convince oneself of the goodness of sodomy … that it is something to be proud of. In that case, pedophiles might want to have their own pedophile parade to assure themselves that pedophilia is moral. NAMBLA (North American Man/Boy Love Association) could organize the parade. 🤷
 
A substantial percentage of gay men and almost all lesbians completely abstain from anal sex. It is a strawman to even discuss anal sex as an issue. As far as STDs go, it is promiscuity, not homosexuality, that is the concern there. Two homosexual virgins having sex with each other in a committed relationship would not lead to a risk of HIV transfer.

We really need to actually discuss the actual issues if we want to change hearts about gay sex. If we go on strawman arguments or use highly offensive terms like “sodomite” or “homosexual lifestyle” we have zero chance.
In both 1984 and Animal Farm George Orwell satirized the clever strategy of calling something other than what it is (Doublespeak). It is purely and simply false to argue that sodomy does not include anal sex, and that we should not talk about it in any case even if it did because we might offend somebody if we do.

By the way, we are not likely to change somebody’s heart about anal sex by not referring to it.
 
… A parade is not a speech, it is only a spectacle. …
I don’t believe this is true.
In Hurley v. Irish-American Gay, Lesbian & Bisexual Group of Boston, the Gay, Lesbian & Bisexual Group sought to be included in the Irish-American St. Patrick’s day Parade.

gis.net/~paul/#What%20the%20Supreme
law.cornell.edu/supct/html/94-749.ZO.html

Quote:

The issues in this case were clear:

(1) Whether the state could compel private citizens to include in their traditionally-themed parade, a protected class (gay, lesbian, and bisexuals) marching behind a banner proclaiming their sexual orientation. Repeatedly, the state courts held that the state’s public accommodation law, prohibiting discrimination in a place of public accommodation, a public street, applied to the Veterans’ annual parade which the Veterans viewed as their speech; and

(2) Whether the Veterans’ refusal to comply could be prosecuted under a Massachusetts penal statute. The state courts said it could.

What the Supreme Court ruled:

The United States Supreme Court, in a rare 9-0 decision, ruled that parades are protected under the First Amendment, and as such, the state could not compel organizers to include groups with messages the organizers disfavored. Justice Souter, writing for the Court, noted, “The state court’s application [of the public accommodation law] however, had the effect of declaring the sponsor’s speech itself to be the public accommodation.”

“Under the free speech guarantees of the Federal Constitution’s First Amendment, (1) the law is not free to interfere with speech for no better reason than promoting an approved message or discouraging a disfavored one, however enlightened either purpose may strike the government, and (2) disapproval of a private speaker’s statement does not legitimize use of the government’s power to compel the speaker to alter the message by including one more acceptable to others.”

Unquote.
:sad_yes:
 
Sorry for the off-topic post, but your religion identifier made me chuckle. My current pastor in CA and my former associate pastor in VA were both former software engineers. Is there some deep connection with software engineering and faith that I’m missing? 😃
LOL. There’s nothing you are missing as far as I know. I placed it in there because it is one of the more significant attributes of my self-identity. It’s always one of the first things that I mention in response to the question “tell me about yourself” and many of the closest people that I have in my life outside of family came into my life though some activity related to software engineering or programming (though they are not necessarily working in the IT field themselves). Even when not talking about software engineering I find the language and concepts of it to be useful when communicating other things. Other SWEs might pick up on when I am doing this but to people without an IT background it isn’t always as obvious.
 
… Is there some deep connection with software engineering and faith that I’m missing? 😃
There was a futuristic Sci-Fi story once about a very large computer. Its makers then fed all the information into it known to man. They then asked it, “What is entropy?” It came back with the answer, “Not enough data.” So they expanded its capabilities and posed the same question; same answer came out. Years went by, still not enough data. Finally, one day an answer came back, “Let there be light.” 🙂
 
You are correct here.

And we are agreed that it’s generally not a good idea to interfere with other people’s lives (unless they give you permission).

I don’t believe anyone has posited that forcing one’s way into another’s lives is a moral imperative.
Up until this point you have my 100% agreement and support.
HOWEVER: it is a morally good thing for all of us, Christians or non, to stop the spread of morally repugnant ideas.
This is where the problem starts to emerge. What you consider morally repugnant may or may NOT coincide what other people consider as such. Nevertheless, I consider it fine to voice your reservations and your wish to help someone whom you “believe” is in error. However, as soon as you get a rejection, you should stop.
What would you do to stop the spread of the morally repugnant idea that God hates homosexuals (let’s just presuppose that you believe in God, ok?)

Do you sit passively by and allow this vile paradigm to proliferate?
I would speak out against it - publicly and forcefully. But I would not attempt to restrict the freedom of the people to voice their ideas, even if I would recommend to stop their efforts to act upon it. To use a reverse example: if some people believe that abortion is murder, their freedom to voice their concern should not ne restricted, however, they should be prevented from blocking access to those clinics that provide abortion services.

I hope we can continue our agreement. 🙂
 
Wearing an earring to signal your homosexuality or wearing women’s underwear in a Gay Pride Parade to signal your homosexuality different signals. The subtlety is lost on the latter.
Sometimes people talk, sometimes people whisper. Sometimes people shout from rooftops and post on billboards. Social signals come in many forms and volume levels.
 
No but they are advertising their homosexuality.
In what ways?
Yes, and popular opinion is very often common sense. 👍
Popular opinion is very often stupid.
Drunkenness in your own home only harms you, or possibly those in your home you abuse while drunk.
That’s the point.
Drunkenness on the road is another matter. It is a crime in most places.
So is drunk and disorderly conduct in public which also tends to be illegal as does sex in public.
AIDS and rectal tearing are not private matters insofar as you can catch AIDS and rectal tearing through promiscuity and frequent anal sex.
Never heard of lesbians getting rectal tearing from sex and only one case ever reported of a lesbian getting HIV from a partner.

Should fornication be a crime as it can lead to transmission of STDs? No, nor should sodomy because neither “destroys social intercourse”.
Likewise prostitution is outlawed in many places because it produces a public menace.
This is one of those cases where common sense is stupid, the criminalization of prostitution creates more problems than the legalization would. Also
You are oh so transparent at changing the subject. I’ll ask again.

Are you and Baptists generally O.K. with sodomy? If so, how do you deal with St. Paul’s quotes given earlier in Romans and Corinthians?

Are you O.K. with the sodomites who get AIDS and pass it on to other sodomites? :confused:

Are you O.K. wkith rectal tearing?

Would you agree that it’s against common sense to engage in anal sex, whether homosexual or heterosexual?

If you don’t agree, why? What benefit is obtained from anal sex?
Please tell me more about the massive dangers associated with lesbian sex.
There is a certain Street Fair that I’ve seen bits of video of. Let’s just say I saw things happening in public.

Ed
The Folsom Street Fair is BDSM.
My own small answer:

There are “Gay Pride” parades because we like to present our own sin as virtue to give ourselves comfort.

This isn’t unique to people with same-sex attraction - the greedy, the powerful, the corrupt, and the war-mongers do it too.
You forgot “the priggish”
Many of us advertise our stance on various matters. There are more overt forms of this this as wearing certain icons (brand images, religious items, bumper stickers) to much more subtle signals such as gestures. This helps us find other people that have a compatible stance on some matter. The advertisements and signals differ from one group to another and one culture to another, but the broadcast of certain social signals seems to be very human and very helpful in directly or indirectly communicating with like minded communication. The monologue of such advertisements can lead to a dialogue among those with compatible stances. It’s social. To not give off any signals at all would be isolating.
Well, what LGBT kids learn from discussions like that is that everyone would be better off if they died.
OK, here’s more than one word.

All sex outside of marriage is a sin.

There. How’s that?
Well, more properly "all sex outside of marriage and inherently sterile sexual acts within marriage
Gay folks are still particularly victimized by violent crimes and treated with hatred, so I understand why they would want to come together and march for an end to hate.

What I do not understand is why anyone would otherwise want to march on behalf of their sex lives.
They are marching about the former
 
Are you and Baptists generally O.K. with sodomy? What benefit is obtained from anal sex?
I’m not exactly sure what you want. Post after post seems to be nothing more than you telling us how much you dislike the idea of anal sex. Would you like it made illegal? Along with all other sexual acts that you think might cause harm and/or you find distasteful?

How about you put your cards on the table, stop complaining about how bad you think things are and tell us exactly how you think it can be made better. What exactly do you propose?
 
I don’t think I follow you. Could you explain?
It is about the fact that people are talking about how bad gay people are and how they are plotting to destroy society, young people hear the hate and start to internalize it.
 
I don’t believe I ever made a reference to physically stopping someone because he might come to harm. You might have me confused with someone else.
I was thinking you might, I don’t know, grab him gently and try to hold him back.
I would probably beg and plead him not to speed down this dark road because he would get hurt. Maybe even grab him gently and try to hold him back. So you wouldn’t do that?
If I had told him the bridge was down and he told me not to worry as he could manage quite well then I’d wish him a safe trip. I don’t know how things work where you come from, but if I were to ‘grab him gently and try to hold him back’ and insist that I knew what was good for him, then I’d better be prepared to lose a few teeth.
 
There was a futuristic Sci-Fi story once about a very large computer. Its makers then fed all the information into it known to man. They then asked it, “What is entropy?”
Not to be pedantic, but it wasn’t a computer as such. Mankind had been slowly evolving through the millenium, moving on from biological to machine intelligence and had actually begun to become part of the universe itself, becoming more and more powerful and all knowing.

The question was; Can entropy be reversed.

Man, which was by now, the universe itself, thought on this until the heat death gradually snuffed out life and then matter itself until there was only man left. And eventualy, before the final last flickering thought was lost, the answer came…let there be light.

If anyone is interested in reading it (although it’s a bit late for a spoiler alert), it’s called The Last Question, written by Isaac Asimov/
 
Meanwhile, back to the topic. Where is the pride in being gay? Honest question.

Ed
 
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