J
jmcrae
Guest
The proper context of the Scriptures is the Catholic Church. They cannot be properly understood outside of their proper context.St. Jerome himself said “ignorance of scriptures is ignorance of Christ”.
"Why are there so many different Christian interpretations? If all Christians have th
- Status
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Hi, Ill address you and JM:thumbsup: My very begining posts actually does answer the question. Im sorry if the answer doesnt sit well with you but it is what it is.Kay Cee;1920645 [QUOTE said:
Yes I do have the Hs indwelling in me.
I thought I would give you a little blurb on Who the Holy Spirit is–so you have a better understanding of where I am coming from. Again, you may or may not agree with this but here it is:There are many misconceptions on the identity of the Holy Spirit. Some view the Holy Spirit as a mystical force. Others understand the Holy Spirit as the impersonal power God makes available to followers of Christ. What does the Bible say about the identity of the Holy Spirit? Simply put - the Bible says that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also tells us that the Holy Spirit is a Person, a Being with a mind, emotions, and a will.
The fact that the Holy Spirit is God is clearly seen in many Scriptures including Acts 5:3-4. In this verse Peter confronts Ananias as to why he had lied to the Holy Spirit and tells him that he had “not lied to men but to God.” It is a clear declaration that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God. We can also know that the Holy Spirit is God because He possesses the attributes or characteristics of God. For example, the fact that the Holy Spirit is omnipresent is seen in Psalm 139:7-8, “Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.” Then in 1 Corinthians 2:10, we see the characteristic of omniscience in the Holy Spirit. “But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.”
We can know that the Holy Spirit is indeed a Person because He possesses a mind, emotions, and a will. The Holy Spirit thinks and knows (1 Corinthians 2:10). The Holy Spirit can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30). The Spirit intercedes for us (Romans 8:26-27). The Holy Spirit makes decisions according to His will (1 Corinthians 12:7-11). The Holy Spirit is God, the third “Person” of the Trinity. As God, the Holy Spirit can truly function as the Comforter and Counselor that Jesus promised He would be (John 14:16,26; 15:26).
The bible.
I have a question for you guys.
How do you determine who is interpreting any written work correctly?
How do you decide who is interpreting the Fathers and the Pope correctly?
K
KindredSoul
Guest
I have a sincere question, that may sound a little leading, but it’s not meant to be.
Seeing as how these criteria all seem to stem from personal flaws/laziness, don’t those criteria require you to judge the very character/skill of people with whom you disagree as inferior to those who “get it right?” It’s as if not only are you saying many people will interpret scripture wrongly (that much is true), but they must be doing so by their own personal fault, whether unbelief, sinfulness, immaturity, or outright laziness. Is that really for you to judge, even if your “opponent’s” point of view justifies something like, say, abortion?
The Catholic would say people misinterpret Scripture because it was never meant to be used alone…it seems the Protestant must say people misinterpret scripture because “they possess at least one of these flaws, or else they’d get it right without needing any church to tell them,” all the while having to conclude that some people (perhaps themselves) must not have any of those flaws, which is the only way anyone can get it right by this logic. It just sounds a little judgmental/mind-reading to me.
Sorry, again…I don’t mean to sound aggressive at all. I just can’t think of how else to word it.
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
I guess it does sound slightly judgemental but that is just how humans are.I have a sincere question, that may sound a little leading, but it’s not meant to be.
Seeing as how these criteria all seem to stem from personal flaws/laziness, don’t those criteria require you to judge the very character/skill of people with whom you disagree as inferior to those who “get it right?” It’s as if not only are you saying many people will interpret scripture wrongly (that much is true), but they must be doing so by their own personal fault, whether unbelief, sinfulness, immaturity, or outright laziness. Is that really for you to judge, even if your “opponent’s” point of view justifies something like, say, abortion?
The Catholic would say people misinterpret Scripture because it was never meant to be used alone…it seems the Protestant must say people misinterpret scripture because “they possess at least one of these flaws, or else they’d get it right without needing any church to tell them,” all the while having to conclude that some people (perhaps themselves) must not have any of those flaws, which is the only way anyone can get it right by this logic. It just sounds a little judgmental/mind-reading to me.
Sorry, again…I don’t mean to sound aggressive at all. I just can’t think of how else to word it.
We all fall into one of the categories at some level. I would fall into lack of training because Ive only been studying the bible for 3 years, so I am by no means an expert.
When someone tells me something about scripture, I dont judge their character at all, I simply go to scriptures to see if they are correct in what they say. I am not judging their character just what they tell me.Dont worry I wasnt offended by what you said or how you put it.
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jmcrae
Guest
Because they agree with the author on what it means.The bible.
I have a question for you guys.
How do you determine who is interpreting any written work correctly?
Most authors don’t just write a book and then never say anything about it.
Normally what happens is, after the book is published, various reviewers interview the author to find out what the goal was with writing that book, and how they perceive it. If the reading public has questions about the book, they go to the author for clarification. These clarifications are put into writing at some point (letters, magazine articles, web sites, blogs, etc.) and so, if you have an interest in a particular book beyond what is in the book itself (for example, you want to know if Harry Potter is based on a real person, or if Jason Bourne has anything in common with real CIA spies) you can do actual research and find out what the author says about these characters.
After having done this research, if someone comes along and tells you something that’s the opposite of what the author said in an interview or in a magazine article about the book, then you can tell the person, “No, that’s wrong. Here’s what the author actually intended.”
By whether they agree with each other, with those in the past who have also studied these things, and also with the actual teachings of the Church, which come down to us from the Apostles.
For example, the other day, someone made an assertion about the Letter of Pope Clement to the Corinthians. I happen to have a copy of that letter in my library, so I looked it up, and I realized that he had made a small error. I pointed out the error, and he withdrew his statement, and he says that he is doing some more research on this.
We don’t have to rely only on our own personal opinions. There is actual solid, objective data out there that we can use, that shows us what the authors of Scripture actually intended.
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
This solid actual data would also be an intrepretation
K
Kay_Cee
Guest
I’m afraid I’m going to have to bow out of the discussion for a while. We’re still having major computer problems, and even though we have a new computer, the only internet service I’ve got now is a time limited Net Zero (our old one isn’t working for some reason) and I have to leave what time we’ve got to my kids in case they need to do research for homework.
I’ll try to get back ASAP!
I’ll try to get back ASAP!
K
Kay_Cee
Guest
Could you be more specific? I’m not seeing it, and since I’m on limted time, I don’t have time to look. Could you please re-post it, and I’ll look at it when I return? Thanks!
That’s a excellent question. If we misinterpret something, we have live persons in the Magesterium who can correct us.I have a question for you guys.
How do you determine who is interpreting any written work correctly?
How do you decide who is interpreting the Fathers and the Pope correctly?
If someone misinterprets the Bible, can the Bible stand up and say, “Hey! You’re misinterpreted me!”
Sorry, that’s all I have time for. I’ll (I hope!) be back in a few days!
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Hurry back!!
J
jmcrae
Guest
What kind of sense does that make?
Even if the work is fictional, the author is the one who knows what it means. You can’t go up to the author of a book and tell them that they meant something different than what they say they meant.
I think you’ve missed my point.
The Bible didn’t write itself. The Apostles and their first followers wrote it. We go to what the Apostles and their first followers said about it, afterwards, to find out what they meant by it. We go to their Successors, the Bishops, to find out what they were taught about it.
When I said, “you can do actual research and find out what the author says about these characters,” I didn’t mean going back and reading the book itself again.
I meant, going to their students, and going to the reviews, and the magazine articles that they wrote, and the lectures they gave, and the interviews that they gave, about the book.
In the case of the New Testament, we find out from their students, the Early Fathers, by reading what the Early Fathers wrote, and by looking into history and finding out what the Early Church actually believed - how did they interpret it, and what did they write about it, what songs did they sing, what pictures did they paint, etc.?
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By whether they agree with each other, with those in the past who have also studied these things, and also with the actual teachings of the Church, which come down to us from the Apostles
Yes, but it’s the interpretation of the poeple who actually wrote it (the Apostles), and their students.This solid actual data would also be an intrepretation
If I take a class from Margaret Atwood (she writes Canadian fiction) on her works, I can be sure that I know what she meant by them, because she would explain it to the class. I took a class from her one time, and she explained why her stories always have sad endings. She said, “All stories have sad endings. It’s just that so many authors quit writing in the middle. But after the “happily ever after,” someone eventually gets into a fight, someone eventually gets sick, and all of them eventually die. I keep writing the stories up to the part where they all die, because to me, that’s the interesting part.” Knowing that helps us to understand her stories better.
Stephen Leacock noticed one time that there was a course being offered on his poetry. He had never heard of the instructor before, and he was sure that she had never contacted him for information about his works, before. So, he decided to enroll in the class under an assumed name, just to see what she might be teaching.
He failed the class.
The reason he failed the class was that the teacher was making up her own interpretation of his writings. She never even noticed or realized that he was the real Stephen Leacock, and even when he revealed himself to her and told her that he was, in fact, Stephen Leacock, she still insisted that his interpretation of his own writings was incorrect, and that she alone knew their real meaning.
I sometimes worry that a lot of “Bible alone” Christians are going to be like that instructor, with God, when they get to the Judgement Day. They are going to be so sure that their interpretation is the right one, that they won’t even believe God when He tells them in person that their interpretation is incorrect.
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Kay_Cee
Guest
I’m back!
AFH, now that I’ve had time to look things over, I’d like to respond to your answers to a couple of my questions from post #156.
I asked if you yourself fit the criterea for having the authority to interpret scripture. You answered yes.
But in post #153 you responded to jmcrae’s position that you had misinterpreted some verses (he said they were about the Second Coming) and you seemed to agree with him that you had been wrong.
So what does this authority of yours mean if you can be wrong? Certainly you’re not claiming infallibility, are you? And if you can be wrong, why should anyone look to you as an authority?
And what does it mean if, as you posted above, that you go to your minister (not just the Bible itself) to find out the correct interpretation of certain verses? If you’re a true believer with the Holy Spirit dwelling within you–and that gives you the authority to interpret scripture–why not just ask the Holy Spirit if you’re right? Why go to someone else?
I also asked:
Could you please be more specific? Book, chapter, and verse, please.
AFH, now that I’ve had time to look things over, I’d like to respond to your answers to a couple of my questions from post #156.
I asked if you yourself fit the criterea for having the authority to interpret scripture. You answered yes.
But in post #153 you responded to jmcrae’s position that you had misinterpreted some verses (he said they were about the Second Coming) and you seemed to agree with him that you had been wrong.
So what does this authority of yours mean if you can be wrong? Certainly you’re not claiming infallibility, are you? And if you can be wrong, why should anyone look to you as an authority?
And what does it mean if, as you posted above, that you go to your minister (not just the Bible itself) to find out the correct interpretation of certain verses? If you’re a true believer with the Holy Spirit dwelling within you–and that gives you the authority to interpret scripture–why not just ask the Holy Spirit if you’re right? Why go to someone else?
I also asked:
You answered: The Bible.
Could you please be more specific? Book, chapter, and verse, please.
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Hi, I did not say I was wrong I said I understand that that passage was referring to end times and I should have been more specific in that I was speaking of one verse within that passage.
We can all be wrong on issues because no one is infallible-- not even me–although sometimes I would like to let my kids think I know it all.
I go to someone else who has more knowledge then I do. The HS gives each one of us(believers) a gift from God. My ministers is the gift of teaching /preaching. My gift is acts of service–which is why I run the homeless ministry. God chose people to spread His message so of course there will be people who know more biblically then I and I know more then some others who may be starting out. We all have our role within the church.
You guys go to the catechism and your priests and Im sure people who are more versed in catholocism then you—right? You also claim to have HS(I think–right)As for your last question Iwill have to revert back to my OP’s. If you dont like those answers Im sorry but it is what it is.
I also asked:
You answered: The Bible.
Could you please be more specific? Book, chapter, and verse, please.
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Hi JM,
I may have understood you wrong. Like I just posted, I revert back to my OP’s. Human error is possible when reading scripture because of the reasons I posted. I understand you want more of an answer, but there is no other answer I can give you.
It is difficult to explain the HS to someone it really has to be experienced to get it. There is really nothing I could say that would convince you regarding this issue of my OP so I really have nothing left to say
Sorry
K
Kay_Cee
Guest
Then why should I accept you as an authority? You claim you have the authority to interpret scripture, but then also claim you could be wrong.Hi, I did not say I was wrong I said I understand that that passage was referring to end times and I should have been more specific in that I was speaking of one verse within that passage.
We can all be wrong on issues because no one is infallible-- not even me–although sometimes I would like to let my kids think I know it all.
And, if the Holy Spirit were truly guiding you, you would never be wrong, since the Holy Spirit is never wrong. Or are you saying the Holy Spirit guides you only some of the time or guides you insufficiently?
My point was that we do need an authority to tell us if our interpretations are right. You seemed to have verified that for me. This also seems to me to refute Sola Scriptura since we do need guides, not just the Bible alone.I go to someone else who has more knowledge then I do. The HS gives each one of us(believers) a gift from God. My ministers is the gift of teaching /preaching. My gift is acts of service–which is why I run the homeless ministry. God chose people to spread His message so of course there will be people who know more biblically then I and I know more then some others who may be starting out. We all have our role within the church.
I’m also curious why you claim you have the authority to interpret scripture when you admit others have “more knowledge.”
I claim the Church as a whole has the Holy Spirit to guide it. I have never claimed that I have any authority to interpret scripture.
I’m not seeing your answer there. Could you please repost it in something shorter?As for your last question Iwill have to revert back to my OP’s. If you dont like those answers Im sorry but it is what it is.
Now I did ask for scripture passages to back up your assertion that your criterea for determining who has the authority to interpret scripture is correct. But, of course, since you admit you’re not infallible, how am I to tell if your interpretation of those passages (once you give them) is the correct one?
And please don’t tell me to check it against the Bible! You’ve already told me the Bible is not enough because others have “more knowledge.” So which others that have more knowledge should I go to? The ones who say the Eucharist is truly the Body and Blood of Christ or the ones who say it isn’t? The ones who adhere to infant Baptism or the ones who don’t?
AFH, the biggest problem I have here is that you’re telling me you have the authority to interpret scripture, the Holy Spirit is guiding you, but you still could be wrong in your interpretations. I’m finding that very contradictory. If you truly have a God-given authority to interpret scripture and God Himself is guiding you, you would never err!
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Hi,
Do you agree with the following?
"Who is the Holy Spirit?”
There are many misconceptions on the identity of the Holy Spirit. Some view the Holy Spirit as a mystical force. Others understand the Holy Spirit as the impersonal power God makes available to followers of Christ. What does the Bible say about the identity of the Holy Spirit? Simply put - the Bible says that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also tells us that the Holy Spirit is a Person, a Being with a mind, emotions, and a will.
The fact that the Holy Spirit is God is clearly seen in many Scriptures including Acts 5:3-4. In this verse Peter confronts Ananias as to why he had lied to the Holy Spirit and tells him that he had “not lied to men but to God.” It is a clear declaration that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God. We can also know that the Holy Spirit is God because He possesses the attributes or characteristics of God. For example, the fact that the Holy Spirit is omnipresent is seen in Psalm 139:7-8, “Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.” Then in 1 Corinthians 2:10, we see the characteristic of omniscience in the Holy Spirit. “But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.”
We can know that the Holy Spirit is indeed a Person because He possesses a mind, emotions, and a will. The Holy Spirit thinks and knows (1 Corinthians 2:10). The Holy Spirit can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30). The Spirit intercedes for us (Romans 8:26-27). The Holy Spirit makes decisions according to His will (1 Corinthians 12:7-11). The Holy Spirit is God, the third “Person” of the Trinity. As God, the Holy Spirit can truly function as the Comforter and Counselor that Jesus promised He would be (John 14:16,26; 15:26).
A
ALLFORHIM
Guest
Hi,
If you believe the above, do you also believe this:
Will the Holy Spirit ever leave a believer?"
Simply put, no, the Holy Spirit will never leave a believer. This truth is revealed in many different passages in the New Testament. For example, Romans 8:9 tells us, “If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.” This verse is very clear that if someone does not have the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, then he/she is not saved; therefore, if the Holy Spirit were to leave a believer, he/she would have lost his/her relationship with Christ and lost his/her salvation. Yet this is clearly contrary to what the Bible teaches about the “eternal security” of Christians. Another verse that speaks clearly to the permanence of the Holy Spirit’s indwelling presence in the life of believers is John 14:16. Here Jesus states that the Father will give another Helper and that “He may be with you forever.”
The fact that the Holy Spirit will never leave a believer is also seen in Ephesians 1:13-14 where believers are said to be “sealed” with the Holy Spirit, “who is given as a pledge of our inheritance with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.” The picture of being sealed with the Spirit is one of ownership and possession. God has promised eternal life to all who believe in Christ, and as a guarantee that He will keep His promise, He has sent the Holy Spirit to indwell the believer until the day of redemption. Similar to making a down payment on a car or a house, God has provided all believers with a down payment of their future relationship with Him by sending the Holy Spirit to indwell them. The fact that all believers are sealed with the Spirit is also seen in 2 Corinthians 1:22 and Ephesians 4:30.
Prior to Christ’s death, resurrection, and ascension into Heaven, the Holy Spirit had a “come and go” relationship with people. The Holy Spirit indwelt King Saul, but then departed from him (1 Samuel 16:14). Instead, the Spirit came upon David (1 Samuel 16:13). After his adultery with Bathsheba, David feared that the Holy Spirit would be taken from him (Psalm 51:11). The Holy Spirit filled Bezaleel to enable him to produce the items needed for the tabernacle (Exodus 31:2-5), but this is not described as a permanent relationship. All of these changed after Jesus’ ascension into Heaven. Beginning on the day of Pentecost (Acts chapter 2), the Holy Spirit began permanently indwelling believers. The permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the fulfillment of God’s promise to always be with us, and never forsake us.
While the Holy Spirit will never leave a believer, it is possible for our sin to “quench the Holy Spirit” (1 Thessalonians 5:19) or “grieve the Holy Spirit” (Ephesians 4:30). Sin always has consequences in our relationship with God. While our relationship with God is secure in Christ, unconfessed sin in our lives can hinder our fellowship with God and effectively quench the Holy Spirit’s working in our lives. That is why it is so important to confess our sins because God is “faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9). So, while the Holy Spirit will never leave us, the benefits and joy of His presence can in fact depart from us.
If you believe the above, do you also believe this:
Will the Holy Spirit ever leave a believer?"
Simply put, no, the Holy Spirit will never leave a believer. This truth is revealed in many different passages in the New Testament. For example, Romans 8:9 tells us, “If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.” This verse is very clear that if someone does not have the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, then he/she is not saved; therefore, if the Holy Spirit were to leave a believer, he/she would have lost his/her relationship with Christ and lost his/her salvation. Yet this is clearly contrary to what the Bible teaches about the “eternal security” of Christians. Another verse that speaks clearly to the permanence of the Holy Spirit’s indwelling presence in the life of believers is John 14:16. Here Jesus states that the Father will give another Helper and that “He may be with you forever.”
The fact that the Holy Spirit will never leave a believer is also seen in Ephesians 1:13-14 where believers are said to be “sealed” with the Holy Spirit, “who is given as a pledge of our inheritance with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.” The picture of being sealed with the Spirit is one of ownership and possession. God has promised eternal life to all who believe in Christ, and as a guarantee that He will keep His promise, He has sent the Holy Spirit to indwell the believer until the day of redemption. Similar to making a down payment on a car or a house, God has provided all believers with a down payment of their future relationship with Him by sending the Holy Spirit to indwell them. The fact that all believers are sealed with the Spirit is also seen in 2 Corinthians 1:22 and Ephesians 4:30.
Prior to Christ’s death, resurrection, and ascension into Heaven, the Holy Spirit had a “come and go” relationship with people. The Holy Spirit indwelt King Saul, but then departed from him (1 Samuel 16:14). Instead, the Spirit came upon David (1 Samuel 16:13). After his adultery with Bathsheba, David feared that the Holy Spirit would be taken from him (Psalm 51:11). The Holy Spirit filled Bezaleel to enable him to produce the items needed for the tabernacle (Exodus 31:2-5), but this is not described as a permanent relationship. All of these changed after Jesus’ ascension into Heaven. Beginning on the day of Pentecost (Acts chapter 2), the Holy Spirit began permanently indwelling believers. The permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the fulfillment of God’s promise to always be with us, and never forsake us.
While the Holy Spirit will never leave a believer, it is possible for our sin to “quench the Holy Spirit” (1 Thessalonians 5:19) or “grieve the Holy Spirit” (Ephesians 4:30). Sin always has consequences in our relationship with God. While our relationship with God is secure in Christ, unconfessed sin in our lives can hinder our fellowship with God and effectively quench the Holy Spirit’s working in our lives. That is why it is so important to confess our sins because God is “faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9). So, while the Holy Spirit will never leave us, the benefits and joy of His presence can in fact depart from us.
A
ALLFORHIM
Guest
I am giving you these explanations so you know where I am coming from as far as my beliefs about who and what the HS does:thumbsup:
"When / How do we receive the Holy Spirit?"
The Apostle Paul clearly taught that we receive the Holy Spirit the moment we believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior. 1 Corinthians 12:13 declares, “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body-whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free - and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.” Romans 8:9 tells us that if a person does not possess the Holy Spirit, he or she does not belong to Christ - “You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.” Ephesians 1:13-14 teaches us that the Holy Spirit is the seal of salvation for all those who believe, “Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession-to the praise of his glory.”
This discussion is controversial because the ministries of the Holy Spirit are often confused. The receiving / indwelling of the Spirit occurs at the moment of salvation. The filling of the Spirit is an ongoing process in the Christian life. While we hold that the baptism of the Spirit also occurs at the moment of salvation, some Christians do not. This sometimes results in the baptism of the Spirit being confused with “receiving the Spirit” as an act subsequent to salvation. In conclusion, how do we receive the Holy Spirit? We receive the Holy Spirit by simply believing in the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior (John 3:5-16). When do we receive the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit becomes our permanent possession the moment we believe.
"When / How do we receive the Holy Spirit?"
The Apostle Paul clearly taught that we receive the Holy Spirit the moment we believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior. 1 Corinthians 12:13 declares, “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body-whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free - and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.” Romans 8:9 tells us that if a person does not possess the Holy Spirit, he or she does not belong to Christ - “You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.” Ephesians 1:13-14 teaches us that the Holy Spirit is the seal of salvation for all those who believe, “Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession-to the praise of his glory.”
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These three Scriptures make it clear that the Holy Spirit must be received at the moment of salvation. Paul could not say that we all were baptized by one Spirit and all given one Spirit to drink if not all of the Corinthian believers possessed the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:9 is even stronger. If a person does not have the Spirit, he does not belong to Christ. Therefore, the possession of the Spirit is an identifying factor of the possession of salvation. Further, the Holy Spirit could not be the “seal of salvation” (Ephesians 1:13-14) if He is not received at the moment of salvation. Many Scriptures make it abundantly clear that our salvation is secured the moment we receive Christ as Savior.
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
After the gift of salvation through Jesus Christ, of all the other gifts given to mankind by God, there is none greater than the presence of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit has many functions, roles, and activities. First, He does a work in the hearts of all people everywhere. Jesus told the disciples that He would send the Spirit into the world to “convict the world concerning sin, and concerning righteousness, and concerning judgment” (John 16:7-11). Everyone has a “God consciousness,” whether they admit it or not, because the Spirit applies the truths of God to men’s own minds as to convince them by fair and sufficient arguments that they are sinners. Responding to that conviction brings men to salvation.
Once we are saved and belong to God, the Spirit takes up residence in our hearts forever, sealing us with the confirming, certifying, and assuring pledge of our eternal state as His children. Jesus said He would send the Spirit to us to be our Helper, Comforter, and Guide. “And I will pray the Father and He will give you another Helper that He may abide with you forever” (John 14:16). The Greek word translated here “Helper” means one who is called alongside and has the idea of someone who encourages and exhorts. “Abiding” has to do with His permanent residence in the hearts of believers (Romans 8:9; 1 Corinthians 6:19, 20; 12:13). Jesus gave the Spirit as a “compensation” for His absence, to perform the functions toward us which He would have done if He had remained personally with us.
Among those functions is that of revealer of truth. The Spirit’s presence within us enables us to understand and interpret the Word. Jesus told His disciples “when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth” (John 16:13). He reveals to our minds the whole counsel of God as it relates to worship, doctrine, and Christian living. He is the ultimate guide, going before, leading the way, removing obstructions, opening the understanding, and making all things plain and clear. He leads in the way we should go in all spiritual things. Without such a guide, we would be apt to fall into error. A crucial part of the Truth He reveals is that Jesus is who He said He is (John 15:26; 1 Corinthians 12:3). The Spirit convinces us of Christ’s deity and sonship, His incarnation, His being the Messiah, His sufferings and death, His resurrection and ascension, His exaltation at the right hand of God, and His role as the Judge of all. He gives glory to Christ in all things (John 16:14).
Another of His roles is that of gift-giver. First Corinthians 12 describes the spiritual gifts given to believers in order that we may function as the body of Christ on earth. All these gifts, both great and small, are given by the Spirit so that we may be His ambassadors to the world, showing forth His grace and glorifying Him.
The Spirit also functions as fruit-producer in our lives. When He indwells us, He begins the work of harvesting His fruit in our lives - love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, meekness, and self-control (Galatians 5:22-23). These are not works of our flesh, which is incapable of producing such fruit, but they are products of the Spirit’s presence in our lives.
The knowledge that the Holy Spirit of God has taken up residence in our lives, that He performs all these miraculous functions, that He dwells with us forever and will never leave or forsake us is cause for great joy and comfort. Thank God for this precious Gift – the Holy Spirit and His work in our lives!
J
jmcrae
Guest
Notice also, who it was that Ananias was actually trying to fool. Notice how it is that to lie to the Church that is under the authority of the Apostle Peter is the same thing as to lie to God the Holy Spirit.
All of these things are true. None of them indicate that the Holy Spirit comes personally to AllForHim to make her an infallible interpreter of the Scriptures.
The first one indicates that the Catholic Church has the Holy Spirit, though, and that to go against the Catholic Church is the same thing as going against the Holy Spirit - when we offend the Church, it is the Holy Spirit who becomes offended.
A
ALLFORHIM
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