"Why are there so many different Christian interpretations? If all Christians have th

[Kay_Cee]

What Apophasis said.
Kay cee may I be honest with you-- Im getting bored with all of this. Could you just make your point.

Well, first you were curious, but now you’re bored.

As for making my point, that’s difficult to do if you refuse to answer the questions.

The truth is this thread is just going in circles and Neither of us are going to change our positions. So I stand behind my initial post and add the following and that is all I have on the subject. Im not going to try to convince you anymore then you can convince me.

I might point out that others have been following our converstion.

I believe in the following statement as Im sure you do as well. This is how I am choosing to live my life. Trying to debate someone into believing one side or another doesnt work. The following statement sums up my belief in how I know I have understanding in how I read the bible. I believe this with all my heart, soul and mind.
“What is the role of the Holy Spirit in our lives today?”

After the gift of salvation through Jesus Christ, of all the other gifts given to mankind by God, there is none greater than the presence of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit has many functions, roles, and activities. First, He does a work in the hearts of all people everywhere. Jesus told the disciples that He would send the Spirit into the world to “convict the world concerning sin, and concerning righteousness, and concerning judgment” (John 16:7-11). Everyone has a “God consciousness,” whether they admit it or not, because the Spirit applies the truths of God to men’s own minds as to convince them by fair and sufficient arguments that they are sinners. Responding to that conviction brings men to salvation.

Once we are saved and belong to God, the Spirit takes up residence in our hearts forever, sealing us with the confirming, certifying, and assuring pledge of our eternal state as His children. Jesus said He would send the Spirit to us to be our Helper, Comforter, and Guide. “And I will pray the Father and He will give you another Helper that He may abide with you forever” (John 14:16). The Greek word translated here “Helper” means one who is called alongside and has the idea of someone who encourages and exhorts. “Abiding” has to do with His permanent residence in the hearts of believers (Romans 8:9; 1 Corinthians 6:19, 20; 12:13). Jesus gave the Spirit as a “compensation” for His absence, to perform the functions toward us which He would have done if He had remained personally with us.

Among those functions is that of revealer of truth. The Spirit’s presence within us enables us to understand and interpret the Word. Jesus told His disciples “when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth” (John 16:13). He reveals to our minds the whole counsel of God as it relates to worship, doctrine, and Christian living. He is the ultimate guide, going before, leading the way, removing obstructions, opening the understanding, and making all things plain and clear. He leads in the way we should go in all spiritual things. Without such a guide, we would be apt to fall into error. A crucial part of the Truth He reveals is that Jesus is who He said He is (John 15:26; 1 Corinthians 12:3). The Spirit convinces us of Christ’s deity and sonship, His incarnation, His being the Messiah, His sufferings and death, His resurrection and ascension, His exaltation at the right hand of God, and His role as the Judge of all. He gives glory to Christ in all things (John 16:14).
Another of His roles is that of gift-giver. First Corinthians 12 describes the spiritual gifts given to believers in order that we may function as the body of Christ on earth. All these gifts, both great and small, are given by the Spirit so that we may be His ambassadors to the world, showing forth His grace and glorifying Him.

The Spirit also functions as fruit-producer in our lives. When He indwells us, He begins the work of harvesting His fruit in our lives - love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, meekness, and self-control (Galatians 5:22-23). These are not works of our flesh, which is incapable of producing such fruit, but they are products of the Spirit’s presence in our lives.

The knowledge that the Holy Spirit of God has taken up residence in our lives, that He performs all these miraculous functions, that He dwells with us forever and will never leave or forsake us is cause for great joy and comfort. Thank God for this precious Gift – the Holy Spirit and His work in our lives!

I trust the bolded statement with all my heart and soul and mind. I really have nothing more to say–it all boils down to trust and faith.

God Bless and I hope all of you here feel the same way.

Continued below as the post is too long.

 

[Kay_Cee]

AFH, I take it from this you are unwilling to answer my questions, even though all I asked for was a simple yes, no, or I don’t know.

I can’t help wondering why it was question #8 that made you want to stop answering.

8) When the believer checks his fallible interpretation against the Bible, are his interpretations of other verses, the ones he’s checking his first interpretation against, also fallible?

I didn’t think the question was difficult, since from what you’ve stated before, I gather you think no one has infallibility interpreting scripture. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

I guess the conversation is over. God bless you in your journey.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Hi All,

I found this while looking for another verse and thought it fit well into the thread:thumbsup:

Proverbs 2:
Pro 2:1 ¶ My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;

Pro 2:2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, [and] apply thine heart to understanding;

Pro 2:3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, [and] liftest up thy voice for understanding;

Pro 2:4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as [for] hid treasures;

Pro 2:5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.

Pro 2:6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth [cometh] knowledge and understanding.

Pro 2:7 He layeth up sound wisdom for the righteous: [he is] a buckler to them that walk uprightly.

Pro 2:8 He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints.

Pro 2:9 Then shalt thou understand righteousness, and judgment, and equity; [yea], every good path.

Pro 2:10 When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul;

Pro 2:11 Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee:

Pro 2:12 To deliver thee from the way of the evil [man], from the man that speaketh froward things;

Pro 2:13 Who leave the paths of uprightness, to walk in the ways of darkness;

Pro 2:14 Who rejoice to do evil, [and] delight in the frowardness of the wicked;

Pro 2:15 Whose ways [are] crooked, and [they] froward in their paths:

Pro 2:16 To deliver thee from the strange woman, [even] from the stranger [which] flattereth with her words;

Pro 2:17 Which forsaketh the guide of her youth, and forgetteth the covenant of her God.

Pro 2:18 For her house inclineth unto death, and her paths unto the dead.

Pro 2:19 None that go unto her return again, neither take they hold of the paths of life.

Pro 2:20 That thou mayest walk in the way of good [men], and keep the paths of the righteous.

Pro 2:21 For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it.

Pro 2:22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

Hi All,

I found this while looking for another verse and thought it fit well into the thread:thumbsup:

Proverbs 2:
Pro 2:1 ¶ My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;

Pro 2:2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, [and] apply thine heart to understanding;

Pro 2:3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, [and] liftest up thy voice for understanding;

Pro 2:4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as [for] hid treasures;

Pro 2:5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.

Pro 2:6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth [cometh] knowledge and understanding.

Pro 2:7 He layeth up sound wisdom for the righteous: [he is] a buckler to them that walk uprightly.

Pro 2:8 He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints.

Pro 2:9 Then shalt thou understand righteousness, and judgment, and equity; [yea], every good path.

Pro 2:10 When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul;

Pro 2:11 Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee:

Pro 2:12 To deliver thee from the way of the evil [man], from the man that speaketh froward things;

Pro 2:13 Who leave the paths of uprightness, to walk in the ways of darkness;

Pro 2:14 Who rejoice to do evil, [and] delight in the frowardness of the wicked;

Pro 2:15 Whose ways [are] crooked, and [they] froward in their paths:

Pro 2:16 To deliver thee from the strange woman, [even] from the stranger [which] flattereth with her words;

Pro 2:17 Which forsaketh the guide of her youth, and forgetteth the covenant of her God.

Pro 2:18 For her house inclineth unto death, and her paths unto the dead.

Pro 2:19 None that go unto her return again, neither take they hold of the paths of life.

Pro 2:20 That thou mayest walk in the way of good [men], and keep the paths of the righteous.

Pro 2:21 For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it.

Pro 2:22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.

Amen! Amen! Amen!
It’s just another reminder to me that I’d be absolutely lost without the scriptures.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

AFH, I take it from this you are unwilling to answer my questions, even though all I asked for was a simple yes, no, or I don’t know.

I can’t help wondering why it was question #8 that made you want to stop answering.

8) When the believer checks his fallible interpretation against the Bible, are his interpretations of other verses, the ones he’s checking his first interpretation against, also fallible?

I didn’t think the question was difficult, since from what you’ve stated before, I gather you think no one has infallibility interpreting scripture. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

I guess the conversation is over. God bless you in your journey.

Hi,
It wasnt the question itself, I just feel the questioning is being drawn out too long. I have a short attention span–sorry I should have stated before I get bored real fast. I probably have adult ADD
I figure I would lay out where I am coming from since that is what you told others here you wanted to know–so I did. I figure that would move this questioning along. I know you are using logic–God did not give me a mind filled with logic. Im more of an emotional person. See we all have our strengths and weaknesses. Logic is my weakness. Now I am being very vulnerable in telling all my weakness so I hope you would not use that against me. Since we are all christians here I will assume that would never happen

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Amen! Amen! Amen!
It’s just another reminder to me that I’d be absolutely lost without the scriptures.

Me TOO:thumbsup:

 

[Blue_Serenity]

Me TOO:thumbsup:

I could use a good “praise and worship” service right about now! Sorry, off topic.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I could use a good “praise and worship” service right about now! Sorry, off topic.

LOL

The first 4 chapters of Proverbs speaks of wisdom and how important it is and how we can **all **get it.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

LOL

The first 4 chapters of Proverbs speaks of wisdom and how important it is and how we can **all **get it.

Proverbs is written like short little poems, isn’t it?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Proverbs is written like short little poems, isn’t it?

I have heard it put that way before and also the following way:
A proverb is a pithy statement of wisdom, often worded in a clever way to make it easy to remember. Most of the proverbs consist of 2 clauses, presenting either similarities or contrasts.
There are 4 types of Proverbs:
1.)Some are single statements expressing a simple fact 16:7

2.) Some consist of 2 clauses or phrases, in which one thing is compared to another: 25:25

3.) Some have 2 clauses or phrases, usually connected by but, and describing things that are opposite to each other. 10:7

4.)Some have 2 clauses or phrases in which the same thought is repeated in a slightly different way: 23:27

Ok now back to topic at hand:thumbsup:

 

[sandusky]

"Kay Cee:

I might point out that others have been following our converstion.

Indeed they have…

Hi,
It wasnt the question itself, I just feel the questioning is being drawn out too long. I have a short attention span–sorry I should have stated before I get bored real fast. I probably have adult ADD
I figure I would lay out where I am coming from since that is what you told others here you wanted to know–so I did. I figure that would move this questioning along. I know you are using logic–God did not give me a mind filled with logic. Im more of an emotional person. See we all have our strengths and weaknesses. Logic is my weakness. Now I am being very vulnerable in telling all my weakness so I hope you would not use that against me. Since we are all christians here I will assume that would never happen

Bless your heart, AFH, you do exhibit the fruits of the Spirit. :tiphat:

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Indeed they have…

Bless your heart, AFH, you do exhibit the fruits of the Spirit. :tiphat:

Thank you I try moment by moment
I feel like Im the little engine that could with God behind me pushing me–saying --it’s ok you can do it, keep going, your almost there,Im right here with you, your not alone, take a deep breathe and hold my hand, take another deep breathe and know that heaven and Me is on the other side waiting for you.

God is really the only thing that sustains us–if we let Him.

 

[sandusky]

Blue Serenity:

Amen! Amen! Amen!
It’s just another reminder to me that I’d be absolutely lost without the scriptures.

Amen.

A couple of my favorites:

Psalm 19:7-11
7 The law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the soul; The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The precepts of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; The commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9 The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever; The judgments of the Lord are true; they are righteous altogether.
10 They are more desirable than gold, yes, than much fine gold; Sweeter also than honey and the drippings of the honeycomb.
11 Moreover, by them Your servant is warned; In keeping them there is great reward.

All of Psalm 119, but here are some favorites passages and verses:

Psalm 119:1-4
1 How blessed are those whose way is blameless, Who walk in the law of the Lord.
2 How blessed are those who observe His testimonies, Who seek Him with all their heart.
3 They also do no unrighteousness; They walk in His ways.
4 You have ordained Your precepts, That we should keep them diligently.

Psalm 119:9-11
9 How can a young man keep his way pure? By keeping it according to Your word.
10 With all my heart I have sought You; Do not let me wander from Your commandments.
11 Your word I have treasured in my heart, That I may not sin against You.

Psalm 119:57-64
57 The Lord is my portion; I have promised to keep Your words.
58 I sought Your favor with all my heart; Be gracious to me according to Your word.
59 I considered my ways And turned my feet to Your testimonies.
60 I hastened and did not delay To keep Your commandments.
61 The cords of the wicked have encircled me, But I have not forgotten Your law.
62 At midnight I shall rise to give thanks to You Because of Your righteous ordinances.
63 I am a companion of all those who fear You, And of those who keep Your precepts.
64 The earth is full of Your lovingkindness, O Lord; Teach me Your statutes.

Psalm 119:97-112
97 O how I love Your law! It is my meditation all the day.
98 Your commandments make me wiser than my enemies, For they are ever mine.
99 I have more insight than all my teachers, For Your testimonies are my meditation.
100 I understand more than the aged, Because I have observed Your precepts.
101 I have restrained my feet from every evil way, That I may keep Your word.
102 I have not turned aside from Your ordinances, For You Yourself have taught me.
103 How sweet are Your words to my taste! Yes, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
104 From Your precepts I get understanding; Therefore I hate every false way.
105 Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.
106 I have sworn and I will confirm it, That I will keep Your righteous ordinances.
107 I am exceedingly afflicted; Revive me, O Lord, according to Your word.
108 O accept the freewill offerings of my mouth, O Lord, And teach me Your ordinances.
109 My life is continually in my hand, Yet I do not forget Your law.
110 The wicked have laid a snare for me, Yet I have not gone astray from Your precepts.
111 I have inherited Your testimonies forever, For they are the joy of my heart.
112 I have inclined my heart to perform Your statutes Forever, even to the end.

Psalm 119:114
114 You are my hiding place and my shield; I wait for Your word.

Psalm 119:164
164 Seven times a day I praise You, Because of Your righteous ordinances.

And who can forget Isaiah?

Isaiah 8:20
20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Amen.

A couple of my favorites:

Psalm 19:7-11
7 The law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the soul; The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The precepts of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; The commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9 The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever; The judgments of the Lord are true; they are righteous altogether.
10 They are more desirable than gold, yes, than much fine gold; Sweeter also than honey and the drippings of the honeycomb.
11 Moreover, by them Your servant is warned; In keeping them there is great reward.

All of Psalm 119, but here are some favorites passages and verses:

Psalm 119:1-4
1 How blessed are those whose way is blameless, Who walk in the law of the Lord.
2 How blessed are those who observe His testimonies, Who seek Him with all their heart.
3 They also do no unrighteousness; They walk in His ways.
4 You have ordained Your precepts, That we should keep them diligently.

Psalm 119:9-11
9 How can a young man keep his way pure? By keeping it according to Your word.
10 With all my heart I have sought You; Do not let me wander from Your commandments.
11 Your word I have treasured in my heart, That I may not sin against You.

Psalm 119:57-64
57 The Lord is my portion; I have promised to keep Your words.
58 I sought Your favor with all my heart; Be gracious to me according to Your word.
59 I considered my ways And turned my feet to Your testimonies.
60 I hastened and did not delay To keep Your commandments.
61 The cords of the wicked have encircled me, But I have not forgotten Your law.
62 At midnight I shall rise to give thanks to You Because of Your righteous ordinances.
63 I am a companion of all those who fear You, And of those who keep Your precepts.
64 The earth is full of Your lovingkindness, O Lord; Teach me Your statutes.

Psalm 119:97-112
97 O how I love Your law! It is my meditation all the day.
98 Your commandments make me wiser than my enemies, For they are ever mine.
99 I have more insight than all my teachers, For Your testimonies are my meditation.
100 I understand more than the aged, Because I have observed Your precepts.
101 I have restrained my feet from every evil way, That I may keep Your word.
102 I have not turned aside from Your ordinances, For You Yourself have taught me.
103 How sweet are Your words to my taste! Yes, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
104 From Your precepts I get understanding; Therefore I hate every false way.
105 Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.
106 I have sworn and I will confirm it, That I will keep Your righteous ordinances.
107 I am exceedingly afflicted; Revive me, O Lord, according to Your word.
108 O accept the freewill offerings of my mouth, O Lord, And teach me Your ordinances.
109 My life is continually in my hand, Yet I do not forget Your law.
110 The wicked have laid a snare for me, Yet I have not gone astray from Your precepts.
111 I have inherited Your testimonies forever, For they are the joy of my heart.
112 I have inclined my heart to perform Your statutes Forever, even to the end.

Psalm 119:114
114 You are my hiding place and my shield; I wait for Your word.

Psalm 119:164
164 Seven times a day I praise You, Because of Your righteous ordinances.

And who can forget Isaiah?

Isaiah 8:20
20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

WOW!! That is some powerful scripture

 

[sandusky]

Will Pick:

The Churh is the Pillar of truth and not the Bible 1Tim 3:15, According to the Bible Itself, the Church is the “pillar of truth” (1 Timothy 3:15), not the Bible. Some “Bible” Christians insist that a “pillar” (the Church) was created to “hold up” another structure (the Bible). They claim the Bible is the structure being held up according to this passage. Well, if that is the case, how did the early Church “hold up” the Bible for the first three to four hundred years when the Bible Itself didn’t even exist?

Thanks for the reiterative recitation of the mantra, Will.

However, the absence of a canon does not mean the absence of scripture.
Will Pick:

Also, even if the Church is only a “pillar” holding up the Bible, doesn’t that mean that the Church is the interpreter of Scripture rather than the individual?Is private interpretation of the Bible condoned in the Bible Itself? No, it is not (2 Peter 1:20).

Here is the full context of v 20, Will:2 Peter 1:16-21

16 For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty.

17 For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such an utterance as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory, “This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased”—

18 and we ourselves heard this utterance made from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.

19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.

20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,

21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.Please demonstrate for us how that passage forbids private interpretation of scripture.
Will Pick:

Was individual interpretation of Scripture practiced by the early Christians or the Jews? Again, “NO” (Acts 8:29-35).

What do call the writings of the ECF’s, Will? And didn’t Jesus hold the Jews responsible for knowing the scripture?

With respect to Acts 8, neither does that passage forbid private interpretation, but rather, it reinforces the truth that new believers need teachers, and this is confirmed in the Word by God’s sending of teachers to His church; in fact, I’m illustrating that now by correcting your wrong understanding of that verse.
Will Pick:

For that matter, aren’t ALL non-Catholic Christians as individuals claiming “infallibility” when it comes to interpreting the Bible?

I’m not; any of you other Prots doing that?
Will Pick:

If one were to put two persons of the “same” non-Catholic Christian denomination (i.e., two Presybterians, two Lutherans, two Baptists, etc.) in separate rooms with a Bible and a notepad and ask them to write down their “interpretation” of the Bible, passage for passage, shouldn’t they then produce the exact same interpretation? If guided by the Holy Spirit as Scripture states, the answer should be “Yes.” But would that really happen? History has shown that the answer is “No.”

You misunderstand, Will; not everyone who claims to be guided by the HS is; and, not all who claim to practice sola scriptura, do so. Among those churches that truly practice sola scriptura, and there are many, is found great unity; in fact, more unity than there has ever been, or will ever be in your church; also, put 2 of each of the different denominations within Catholicism together in a room, and the results would be the same as that for Presbyterians, Lutherans, and Baptist. For a microcosmic proof of that, peruse the various forums and sub-forums on this website.

Furthermore, if disagreement is your basis for bad theology, the RCC is in the same boat as everybody else.
Will Pick:

Now, in the case of Catholics, the Church which Christ founded and is with forever (Matthew 28:20) interprets the Bible, as guided by the Holy Spirit, (Mark 13:11) for the “sheep” (the faithful). The Church (not individuals) interpret Scripture. In Catholicism, Scripture is there for meditation, prayer and inspiration, not for individual interpretation to formulate doctrine or dogma.

That notion has been disproved on this thread.

Researcher, and Deb216 both admit to private interpretation without the aid of the Pope and Magisterium in their quest for truth.

The way I see it, people have two choices, Will: either they privately interpret, or they blindly follow.

Which have you done?

 

[ncgolf]

The way I see it, people have two choices, Will: either they privately interpret, or they blindly follow.

Which have you done?

What a croc of a statement … private interpretation for the fullness of truth is the blind leading the blind. The other option you give is better stated as no one follows blindly … to follow the Church you must have your eyes wide open not closed. You close your eyes and follow all that will happen is you run into walls.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

What do call the writings of the ECF’s, Will? And didn’t Jesus hold the Jews responsible for knowing the scripture?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

What a croc of a statement … private interpretation for the fullness of truth is the blind leading the blind. The other option you give is better stated as no one follows blindly … to follow the Church you must have your eyes wide open not closed. You close your eyes and follow all that will happen is you run into walls.

To follow Christ you must have your eyes open as well and also your heart:thumbsup:

 

[jmcrae]

Hi, I hadnt thought of it that way before thanks. I forgot that Jesus held the Jews responsible for knowing Scripture.

They had to know the Jewish interpretation of the Scriptures, though - they couldn’t pick a verse here, pair it up with a verse there, and get the Bible to say whatever they wanted it to say, the way so many non-Catholics do. This is what is meant by “no private interpretations.”

The ECFs also were not making up their own interpretations of Scripture - they were passing on the teachings of the Apostles, and exploring and studying these teachings in order to come to a better understanding of them - not making stuff up as they went along, according to the burning of the bosom, or random thoughts jumping into their heads from nowhere, being mistaken for the “Holy Spirit.”

 

[sandusky]

What a croc of a statement … private interpretation for the fullness of truth is the blind leading the blind. The other option you give is better stated as no one follows blindly … to follow the Church you must have your eyes wide open not closed. You close your eyes and follow all that will happen is you run into walls.

I think that would be crock, not croc, unless you are referring to me as some sort of reptilian.

Are you?