Why are there so many Jewish atheists and agnostics?

[meltzerboy]

It seems to me there are more Jewish atheists and agnostics than Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Muslim, or Hindu ones. Do you also think that is the case, and if so, why?

 

[WildCatholic]

Because a lot of Jews are cultural Jews. Typically I’ve found only orthodox and conservative Jews to be sincere in faith. I assume most Jewish atheists were raised in the reform tradition, which is very liberal and is more cultural than anything

 

[lax16]

It seems to me there are more Jewish atheists and agnostics than Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Muslim, or Hindu ones. Do you also think that is the case, and if so, why?

Hi meltzerboy - I agree that there seems to be quite a few Jewish people who consider themselves either atheist or agnostic, but mainly agnostic.

The reasons I have been given for this (by Jewish friends and family members) are:

1. We should not force religious views on anyone else, therefore, we have to acknowledge that no one religion is true
2. Jewish people are thinkers, therefore we always question, argue and debate
3. If there was a God, he would not have allowed the Holocaust to happen
4. We must embrace all religions, beliefs, and lifestyles and claim that as our primary identity (liberalism = Judaism)
5. Jewish people tend not to continue religious education beyond preparation for bar/bat mitzvah and therefore are not sure of their religious history
6. a perception that being a “cultural Jew” is also being an “intellectual”
7. a belief that conservative values = Christian values and therefore, must be avoided (even if they are held to be true by Orthodox Jews)
8. a strong dislike for Orthodox Judaism and Jews

 

[meltzerboy]

Because a lot of Jews are cultural Jews. Typically I’ve found only orthodox and conservative Jews to be sincere in faith. I assume most Jewish atheists were raised in the reform tradition, which is very liberal and is more cultural than anything

That may be the case for some or many Reform Jews. However, as a Reform Jew myself, I would draw a distinction between Reform Judaism and cultural Judaism. Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[meltzerboy]

Hi meltzerboy - I agree that there seems to be quite a few Jewish people who consider themselves either atheist or agnostic, but mainly agnostic.

The reasons I have been given for this (by Jewish friends and family members) are:

1. We should not force religious views on anyone else, therefore, we have to acknowledge that no one religion is true
2. Jewish people are thinkers, therefore we always question, argue and debate
3. If there was a God, he would not have allowed the Holocaust to happen
4. We must embrace all religions, beliefs, and lifestyles and claim that as our primary identity (liberalism = Judaism)
5. Jewish people tend not to continue religious education beyond preparation for bar/bat mitzvah and therefore are not sure of their religious history
6. a perception that being a “cultural Jew” is also being an “intellectual”
7. a belief that conservative values = Christian values and therefore, must be avoided (even if they are held to be true by Orthodox Jews)
8. a strong dislike for Orthodox Judaism and Jews

This sounds like a “good” list of possible explanations. I myself was thinking particularly along the lines of #2 and #5, but I cannot completely deny any of the other reasons you offer. Thanks for this information.

 

[lax16]

This sounds like a “good” list of possible explanations. I myself was thinking particularly along the lines of #2 and #5, but I cannot completely deny any of the other reasons you offer. Thanks for this information.

I was literally quoting family and friends with each explanation.

I have heard these things said for 24 years!

Obviously, this does not mean it applies to all Jewish people, but it is definitely true in my world.

 

[DaveBj]

I don’t have any figures comparing the percentage of atheists and agnostics among ethnic Jews before WWII and after WWII, but if that percentage is greater now than it was in the early decades of the 20th century, I wonder if the Holocaust might have played a role in the increase. In other words, “Look what happened to us under Nazism! A good God would not have let that happen. Therefore, I can’t believe in God.”

 

[lax16]

This sounds like a “good” list of possible explanations. I myself was thinking particularly along the lines of #2 and #5, but I cannot completely deny any of the other reasons you offer. Thanks for this information.

As far as #2 is concerned…

I love a lively discussion and debate about religion and politics, etc. and do not shy away from these topics even if it gets a little “heated”. However, the part I don’t understand is that the Jewish people (in my life) do not believe that God provides us the final answer, the absolute truth.

That is the part that stumps me. How can a group of people be God’s chosen people, who get their very identity from believing in the one True God, and yet question that this same True God has complete authority. Any thoughts?

 

[Gem02]

Based on what I’ve heard from Rabbi Shmuley Boteach and Rabbi Tovia Singer they would turn away Christians who wanted to convert to Judaism and told them that they could still be good people and share in the world to come even if they stayed Christian. This always struck me as odd as I heard these statements while they were having debates against Christianity. If belief didn’t matter then what was the need for a debate then right? However what I gather from this is that perhaps some Jews don’t believe you have to believe in the right god or God in general in order to be a good Jew. So maybe that is why there are many agnostic and atheist Jews?

 

[Dale_M]

It seems to me there are more Jewish atheists and agnostics than Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Muslim, or Hindu ones. Do you also think that is the case, and if so, why?

I think there is sort of a similarity with Catholics. A large number of Catholics continue to identify as such, even though they no longer believe. They may describe themselves as a “recovering Catholic” or a “cultural Catholic” but they retain an identity which is apart from religious beliefs or attendance at religious services.

I think this ethnic identity that many Catholics have is one reason why polls consistently show that most Catholics in the US do not agree with important Church teachings. In the case of Protestants, former believers simply shed their religious identity. But non-believing Catholics tend to hang onto their identity as Catholics.

 

[meltzerboy]

Based on what I’ve heard from Rabbi Shmuley Boteach and Rabbi Tovia Singer they would turn away Christians who wanted to convert to Judaism and told them that they could still be good people and share in the world to come even if they stayed Christian. This always struck me as odd as I heard these statements while they were having debates against Christianity. If belief didn’t matter then what was the need for a debate then right? However what I gather from this is that perhaps some Jews don’t believe you have to believe in the right god or God in general in order to be a good Jew. So maybe that is why there are many agnostic and atheist Jews?

There is actually a custom in Judaism that consists of turning away potential converts to the religion three times. The reason is the belief that before one decides to convert, one should think long and hard about the hard work that entails (i.e. becoming a Jew) so one may be better able to decide whether one is really serious about assuming this kind of huge responsibility. Further, Judaism does not believe in evangelizing; therefore, conversion is based on a sincere desire to adopt a Jewish way of life. After three requests, it is more likely a person is sincere about wanting to convert, rather than their request’s being no more than a passing whim. Insofar as sharing in the “World to Come,” non-Jews are thought to have an easier opportunity since they are bound only by the Noahide Law consisting of seven commandments rather than the full Torah. (I believe there is somewhat of a similar belief in Catholicism, though not exactly the same.) The so-called righteous Gentile may surely partake of the World to Come.

 

[meltzerboy]

I think there is sort of a similarity with Catholics. A large number of Catholics continue to identify as such, even though they no longer believe. They may describe themselves as a “recovering Catholic” or a “cultural Catholic” but they retain an identity which is apart from religious beliefs or attendance at religious services.

I think this ethnic identity that many Catholics have is one reason why polls consistently show that most Catholics in the US do not agree with important Church teachings. In the case of Protestants, former believers simply shed their religious identity. But non-believing Catholics tend to hang onto their identity as Catholics.

I think you’re right. I have several Catholic friends in name only; however, they maintain their identity as Catholic.

 

[meltzerboy]

As far as #2 is concerned…

I love a lively discussion and debate about religion and politics, etc. and do not shy away from these topics even if it gets a little “heated”. However, the part I don’t understand is that the Jewish people (in my life) do not believe that God provides us the final answer, the absolute truth.

That is the part that stumps me. How can a group of people be God’s chosen people, who get their very identity from believing in the one True God, and yet question that this same True God has complete authority. Any thoughts?

Jews have a custom of debating with G-d Himself, even accusing Him of inflicting natural disasters and large-scale injustices on the Earth. They do not shy away from confrontational argument with G-d, let alone other people, and see little contradiction in protesting at the same time as believing. There seems to be a high tolerance for ambiguity in Jewish people’s minds, perhaps partly due to a lack of central authority in the religion as compared to the authoritative position of the Catholic Church.

 

[meltzerboy]

I don’t have any figures comparing the percentage of atheists and agnostics among ethnic Jews before WWII and after WWII, but if that percentage is greater now than it was in the early decades of the 20th century, I wonder if the Holocaust might have played a role in the increase. In other words, “Look what happened to us under Nazism! A good God would not have let that happen. Therefore, I can’t believe in God.”

I’m almost certain the Holocaust played a decisive role in Jews’ questioning the existence of G-d.

 

[DaveBj]

Jews have a custom of debating with G-d Himself, even accusing Him of inflicting natural disasters and large-scale injustices on the Earth. They do not shy away from confrontational argument with G-d, let alone other people, and see little contradiction in protesting at the same time as believing. There seems to be a high tolerance for ambiguity in Jewish people’s minds, perhaps partly due to a lack of central authority in the religion as compared to the authoritative position of the Catholic Church.

One need go no farther than Fiddler on the Roof to see that custom dramatized

 

[meltzerboy]

One need go no farther than Fiddler on the Roof to see that custom dramatized

Yes, indeed. In my previous post, I should have said “allowing” disasters and injustices rather than inflicting them. It would nevertheless be considered a sin of omission by human standards.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Could it also be that one can be Jewish by ethnicity,regardless of whether thy are by faith?

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Norman Podhoretz has written a whole book on the subject:

2009: Why Are Jews Liberals? New York: Doubleday,

 

[lax16]

Jews have a custom of debating with G-d Himself, even accusing Him of inflicting natural disasters and large-scale injustices on the Earth. They do not shy away from confrontational argument with G-d, let alone other people, and see little contradiction in protesting at the same time as believing. There seems to be a high tolerance for ambiguity in Jewish people’s minds, perhaps partly due to a lack of central authority in the religion as compared to the authoritative position of the Catholic Church.

I can understand this and agree that Jewish people have a high tolerance for ambiguity.

Maybe the lack of central authority came about as a result of Judaism splitting into three divisions - Catholics, however fall into similar divisions, (just not officially) and obviously retain one central authority. Wouldn’t God’s laws be the “central authority”?

The questions I have next are: Do Jews believe in absolute truth? Even if God does allow disaster and injustice, is this not God’s will? At what point are we obedient?

Thanks!

 

[meltzerboy]

Could it also be that one can be Jewish by ethnicity,regardless of whether thy are by faith?

There are Jews who call themselves cultural Jews: among celebrities, Barbara Walters and Amy Goodman, for example. So yes, one can consider oneself Jewish by ethnicity only. And technically, if one is born of a Jewish mother, one is Jewish provided one does not convert, even if one claims to be an atheist.