Why are there three Persons in God? Why not more? and related questions

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  1. Did God “have” to exist in a Trinity?
If so, why did the Nature of God require only three Persons, why not four or an infinite number?
  1. If the Father is the Lover, and the Son is the Beloved, and the Holy Spirit is the outpouring of love from the Father and the Son, why isn’t their a fourth Person who is generated from the love of the three Persons?
  2. Also, if the Holy Spirit is the outpouring of love between the Father and the Son how isnt He composed of two Persons? What I mean is the basic philosophy I understand is that the Son is the “thought” of God the Father, and because He is perfect, the thought is Personified as the Son.
Now, if that thought is Personified to beget one Person (the Son), how is the perfect love from the Father and the Son restricted to form only one other Person (the Holy Spirit)? The love of the Father is perfect as is the Son’s love. So why wasn’t two Persons formed from the outpouring of the Father and the Son?
  1. Is this why (question 3) the Orthodox church believes the Holy Spirit proceeded only from the Father?
Btw, questions 2 and 3 are similar, but not exactly the same.
 
I’m sure some theologian on here can give a good answer but always keep in mind this doctrine was not invented by philosophy only refined by it, so trying to get a philosophical explanation isn’t really going to work.

The idea of the trinity is strange, but so are subatomic particles.
 
Yes, but subatomic particles can be explained can’t they. Even though I myself don’t have a clue about them :p.
 
mschrank said:
I’m sure some theologian on here can give a good answer but always keep in mind this doctrine was not invented by philosophy only refined by it, so trying to get a philosophical explanation isn’t really going to work.
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I don’t want to derail this thread. But I have to ask, how do we know that philosophy only refined the doctrine and that the doctrine wasnt defined by philosophy in the name of God?
 
So what you are really asking is, why didn’t God reproduce?

Why does He need to? He is everlasting.
 
MH84 said:
Yes, but subatomic particles can be explained can’t they. Even though I myself don’t have a clue about them :p.
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We can explain what one might do, but not what they are. Some scientists say they don’t even really exist!
 
MH84 said:
Yes, but subatomic particles can be explained can’t they. Even though I myself don’t have a clue about them :p.
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I’m not so sure that they can. Ask a physicist what subatomic particles are made of. Previously they were thought to be “point” particles, having no dimensions. How can something material have no dimensions? Now they are thought to be 1 dimensional strings or 2 dimensional membranes. But what exactly are they?

I think the Trinity is essential to God, since God is Trinity, and God is eternal and does not change, that’s how He exists and must exist from all eternity.
 
JimG said:
I think the Trinity is essential to God, since God is Trinity, and God is eternal and does not change, that’s how He exists and must exist from all eternity.
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I’ll take this as as attempt at question 1. I see that you are saying He has to exist as a Trinity because that is that nature of God. But why three? Moreover, why does the existence of Persons stop at three? Please refer to the OP for more detail on my questions.
 
We know from the bible that man is made in the image of God–therefore in some way He reflects God.

Trigonometry could also be a reflection of god in mathematics.

My point is maybe there is a reason why Trigonometry involves the number three and maybe it is because God is the Trinity–3–and not more or less persons.
 
Jerry-Jet said:
We know from the bible that man is made in the image of God–therefore in some way He reflects God.

Trigonometry could also be a reflection of god in mathematics.

My point is maybe there is a reason why Trigonometry involves the number three and maybe it is because God is the Trinity–3–and not more or less persons.
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What about the other branches of math? Why trigonometry out of all the possible comparisons? Is the whole universe governed by the rules of trigonometry?
 
MH84 said:
  1. Did God “have” to exist in a Trinity?
If so, why did the Nature of God require only three Persons, why not four or an infinite number?
Click to expand...
Simply because it has been revealed to us that God is the Holy Trinity. If you don’t accept that “revelation” is possible, then you won’t accept ANY conclusion drawn from that axiom.
  1. If the Father is the Lover, and the Son is the Beloved, and the Holy Spirit is the outpouring of love from the Father and the Son, why isn’t their a fourth Person who is generated from the love of the three Persons?
Click to expand...
  1. Also, if the Holy Spirit is the outpouring of love between the Father and the Son how isnt He composed of two Persons? What I mean is the basic philosophy I understand is that the Son is the “thought” of God the Father, and because He is perfect, the thought is Personified as the Son.
Click to expand...
Now, if that thought is Personified to beget one Person (the Son), how is the perfect love from the Father and the Son restricted to form only one other Person (the Holy Spirit)? The love of the Father is perfect as is the Son’s love. So why wasn’t two Persons formed from the outpouring of the Father and the Son?
Click to expand...
  1. Is this why (question 3) the Orthodox church believes the Holy Spirit proceeded only from the Father?
Click to expand...
Btw, questions 2 and 3 are similar, but not exactly the same.
Click to expand...
God the Father is the ineffable. He is utterly omnipotent and inexpressible in His omnipotence.

God the Son is God’s “interface” between Himself and His creation.

God the Holy Spirit is God’s activity.

If there is an omnipotence, and a conduit, and a “doing”, what is there missing in being God?
 
CalmDownWisWins said:
Simply because it has been revealed to us that God is the Holy Trinity. If you don’t accept that “revelation” is possible, then you won’t accept ANY conclusion drawn from that axiom.

God the Father is the ineffable. He is utterly omnipotent and inexpressible in His omnipotence.

God the Son is God’s “interface” between Himself and His creation.

God the Holy Spirit is God’s activity.

If there is an omnipotence, and a conduit, and a “doing”, what is there missing in being God?
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Why did you even quote me? You didnt answer any of the questions. Please just admit you don’t know. This is a complicated topic.
If there is an omnipotence, and a conduit, and a “doing”, what is there missing in being God?
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Im not sure if this is in line with Catholic teaching. But if it is, it only explains God’s relationship with us.
 
MH84 said:
Why did you even quote me? You didnt answer any of the questions. Please just admit you don’t know. This is a complicated topic.

Im not sure if this is in line with Catholic teaching. But if it is, it only explains God’s relationship with us.
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Your questions are nonsense.

The reason that God is the Holy Trinity is simply, and ONLY, because He is.

There are no answers to your questions other than that you either accept that that is true, or not.

The “suboptimal” answers to your questions are:
  1. Because He is the Holy Trinity per His revelation to us.
  2. There is no “fourth person” of a trinity, by defiition.
  3. A person of a trinity is not more than one person, by definition.
  4. The incorrect understanding of the Eastern Orthodox churches really should be addressed to them as to why they refuse to accept this particular revealed truth.
 
CalmDownWisWins said:
Your questions are nonsense.

The reason that God is the Holy Trinity is simply, and ONLY, because He is.

There are no answers to your questions other than that you either accept that that is true, or not.

The “suboptimal” answers to your questions are:
  1. Because He is the Holy Trinity per His revelation to us.
  2. There is no “fourth person” of a trinity, by defiition.
  3. A person of a trinity is not more than one person, by definition.
  4. The incorrect understanding of the Eastern Orthodox churches really should be addressed to them as to why they refuse to accept this particular revealed truth.
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They are nonsense to you because you can’t answer them.
  1. Okay, but that is a subjective answer
  2. Trinity is our term for God. The bible never uses the word Trinity.
  3. Are you trying to mock my question? You are creating a strawman argument.
  4. So you don’t know
 
There are no answers to your questions other than that you either accept that that is true, or not.
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:confused:
This is an apolegetics forums, right?

If you were to tell a non-believer, “You either accept that as true or not”, I don’t think they would be too convinced.
 
MH84 said:
:confused:
This is an apolegetics forums, right?

If you were to tell a non-believer, “You either accept that as true or not”, I don’t think they would be too convinced.
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I don’t care whether they accept it or not.

The answer as to why the Holy Trinity is a trinity is not a reasoned conclusion. It is simply an axiomatic fact.

There is no “argument” to justify such a thing.

If I were an apologist, and the idea of the Holy Trinity came up in abject isolation to the rest of the deposit of faith, then I’d prove myself to be an incredibly incompetent apologist!

A better question might be: What are the implications of God being a trinity? That we can use to explain some things that are more enlightening about being a Christian.

But once again, your questions are nonsensical, despite your protestations to the contrary.

There is no need to “justify”, prove, or rationalize revealed truths. That’s why we call the Holy Trinity a “MYSTERY”.

Mysteries, as Catholics know them, are interesting ONLY in their implications, and not in there “rationale”.
 
MH84 said:
They are nonsense to you because you can’t answer them.
  1. Okay, but that is a subjective answer
  2. Trinity is our term for God. The bible never uses the word Trinity.
  3. Are you trying to mock my question? You are creating a strawman argument.
  4. So you don’t know
Click to expand...
Your quesitons are nonsense because you won’t accept the only acceptable answers to them.
 
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