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ElizabethCorbel
Guest
Welcome to the forum, Star Sapphire. I’m glad you found us, too. I miss being able to talk about this stuff, too. Join us any time.
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ElizabethCorbel
Guest
To Jochoa:
I really like what you did with the Beatitudes! Very moving! You have a gift.
I really like what you did with the Beatitudes! Very moving! You have a gift.
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ElizabethCorbel
Guest
Thank you, Tony. I was a little nervous putting it out there. But I wanted Wanstronian to know that pain and suffering don’t prove God’s nonexistence.
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jochoa
Guest
Thank you very much for your time, consideration, and sharing your thoughts, my friend.
Please note that what I share is a personal interpretation, which I not only find to be well aligned but will revise until I am well aligned, of the Holy Bible founded on the Scriptures defining the Greatest Commandments as Jesus Christ stated and demonstrated, especially in His Crucifixion, according to the prayers and Sacraments of Catholicism, as taught by the Magisterium, as experienced in life. Also please note that I simplified that understanding, as to not overwhelm you.
Regarding Mortal Sin
Although those words are Truth, in order to take the extensive time needed to reduce the knowledge down to simplified wisdom, no longer than a post, so that you might have a logical understanding, I have one request: Will you read it with an openness to see the light, or will you simply dismiss it, and switch focus to a different paradox, as you did my first response? Keep in mind that I believe Noah’s Ark is a historical fact, Jonas actually lived in a fish, and the earth is young.
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Lui
Guest
Thanks but I have no interest in learning the details of a religion I don’t believe in. Would you be interested in hearing about Islam to see the light?
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jochoa
Guest
My friend, if you do not want to learn the defenses of Catholicism, perhaps you should heavily consider, what force is acting upon you to continually cause you to return, listen to, and reflect on the Message of Catholicism, even though you think you want nothing to do with it. Please note, I only want you to experience greater peace in life, and if you continually do not listen to the force that is motivating you to come here, you are only prolonging your time out of peace.
Although if I was naturally interested, I would go to an Islam Answers site and consider the Defenses of their Faith, for that would be the most peaceful and educating method. However, seeing as you know Islam is Truth and are willing to share the wisdom to recognize how it is the Truth, then sure. How does one know Islam is Truth?
Thank you very much for all your time and consideration! I look forward to growing in faith with you.
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jochoa
Guest
As do you my friend! Your post was very moving, inspiring, and courageous, especially noting the amount of time you remained patient. I look forward to learning more from you!
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Lui
Guest
Actually when I signed up on CAF I tried to be a Catholic after having been brought up without a religion(although I’ve been baptized). I learned a lot about Catholicism but what made me lose faith wasn’t Atheism nor any other religion but Catholicism itself. The more I learned about it, the more I rejected it. I came to the conclusion that I don’t believe in it and it never brought me any peace. I feel more peaceful now than when I tried to be Catholic. I say tried because no matter how hard I tried to believe I had to realize that I was kidding myself and instead of lying to myself I had to be honest and admit that I don’t believe. That decision is what brought me peace.
I’m not a Muslim. It was just an example that a faithful Catholic isn’t really interested in learning about the truth of Buddhism or Islam either simply because he doesn’t believe it is the truth. You wouldn’t want to study Buddhism because you don’t believe in it. The same applies to me with Catholicism now.
Maybe I wanted to be a Catholic because we humans all want to know why we are here. The thought that after you’re dead, that’s it, isn’t exactly exciting. On the other hand you can’t force yourself to believe. Wishful thinking isn’t real faith.
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jochoa
Guest
Please note, that I was in a similar position as yours several years ago. I was even in a strong stage of considering which faith was Truth: Christianity or Buddhism because the achievement of peace and happiness was evident in both and Buddhism came first, which gave it some weight. But since I did not perceive, in my short considerations, that the Buddha glorified God, and Catholicism has the Beautiful Wisdom of, “IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.” It also has the Beautiful Wisdom of “The Lord Our God is One,” followed by the means to understand a working concept of the Holy Trinity: being unbreakably peaceful, limitlessly happy, and unstoppably energetic as a society and individually, including the foundation of wisdom necessary to understand the verses, paradoxes, and prayers of the Bible and Catholicism. After gaining enough knowledge to whole-heartedly accept the Faith as Truth, my levels of peace, happiness, energy, and wisdom as a member of various societies and individually began to soar. And after your challenge to consider Islam as Truth, I did a quick search. Seeing as Islam does not believe Jesus is God, and I have a simple, somewhat long (13 pages), and justifiably aligned with Catholicism logical method of knowing the Christian God of Catholicism is Truth, one would have to demonstrate how my understandings are illogical and not aligned with Catholicism and life, as we know it. If you would like to take a read, I would gladly share.
Regarding the thread title: Please consider the following questions:
Why are you here? If you are not open to believing any defense we have to offer, what do you want to learn from the Defense of the Catholic Faith, or what is your intent in sharing that you are completely unopen to considering our Defenses, yet you want to announce that you believe Catholicism is wrong?
Recognize that a Catholic is a faithful follower of God. Therefore, If a religion proclaims they have the Truth about God, a faithful follower of God will consider the validity of the justification.
My friend, here is my recommendation to you: If you have a hard time accepting that which is of faith (What happened in the beginning, How can one live inside a fish, how can the earth be young), then just don’t ask about it, don’t think about it, and especially don’t publicly deny it. Keep in mind, God knows how incredibly difficult it is for knowledge based beings to accept that of faith. Just know that patience gets peace, kindness gets happiness, and motivation gets energy. Then work on being unconditionally better at those for the greater good of society and yourself today, than you did yesterday, as Jesus did. God will have mercy on you not believing that which is not provable. However, if you publicly deny Him and His Church, you are blocking and hindering His Will to help others find greater peace and happiness, and most of all find Him.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts!
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Lui
Guest
The right question is why am I still here. I guess debating(in the philosophy section!!) reassures me that Catholicism is wrong. I learn both from Catholics and Non-Catholics. People of all faiths are welcome to debate in this section.
I don’t have a hard time believing in Jonas living inside a fish, a young earth, Noah’s Ark or Adam and Eve as our actual parents. I completely reject it like I reject Zeus, the God of a jungle tribe or Peter Pan and Tinkerbell. It’s not debatable for me because it goes against anything I believe in. It’s like asking you to accept the Pachamama of the Incas.
I think mainly debates with YECs is what made me doubt the most and eventually made me doubt all the rest too.
Again, this is the philosophy section where people of all faiths can express their views. If people don’t want to reason with doubters because it might harm their faith then they should avoid this section. You are expressing your belief in a young earth that many priests I’ve talked to not only reject but despise because they think that this belief is damaging the reputation of the church.
If I couldn’t find God in the endless efforts of trying, then it is not my fault. My main prayer for years was to give me faith over and over and over again. The more I asked the less I received until I finally walked away.
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ElizabethCorbel
Guest
I hope I don’t offend anyone with this post. But I honestly don’t know if Jonah’s story is real or an allegory; I think Noah was a real person that lived through a gigantic flood in the area of Mesopotamia (as also recorded in the Epic of Gilgamesh); and I believe the earth is about 4 billion years old.
Yet the Catholic church accepts me. The Church is wide enough to encompass more than one view. I have friends who are literalists and I think that’s wonderful. They know I’m not and it doesn’t bother them because they can see how much I love the Lord. If you have problems with a literal interpretation of the Bible, there are plenty of priests out there who are willing to show you that Scripture is written on many levels.
What’s more important? That the world was created in six days or that it took millions of years to coalesce out of the cosmic debris left over from when Sol formed? It’s not important either way. What’s important is that the earth was created.
Seriously, if that’s your problem, then don’t let it bother you any more. There are many, many Catholics out there (including priests) that don’t subscribe to a literal interpretation of the Bible. That doesn’t mean you can’t be Catholic.
Yet the Catholic church accepts me. The Church is wide enough to encompass more than one view. I have friends who are literalists and I think that’s wonderful. They know I’m not and it doesn’t bother them because they can see how much I love the Lord. If you have problems with a literal interpretation of the Bible, there are plenty of priests out there who are willing to show you that Scripture is written on many levels.
What’s more important? That the world was created in six days or that it took millions of years to coalesce out of the cosmic debris left over from when Sol formed? It’s not important either way. What’s important is that the earth was created.
Seriously, if that’s your problem, then don’t let it bother you any more. There are many, many Catholics out there (including priests) that don’t subscribe to a literal interpretation of the Bible. That doesn’t mean you can’t be Catholic.
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tonyrey
Guest
Honesty is by far the best policy.ElizabethCorbel;8579524 [QUOTE said:
It is not unknown for some individuals to have made up their mind for once and for all…
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Lui
Guest
Just because you believe it’s true doesn’t mean it IS true.If you reject the reality of guilt you have decided that for yourself!
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jmcrae
Guest
How do you feel about “Bridge Out” signs?
You MUST believe that the bridge is out, or else you (together with your car) will fall into the river.
If you don’t believe that the bridge is out on the basis that “nobody tells me what to believe,” you will most likely proceed toward where the bridge used to be, and you will plunge your car into the river, because you won’t have time to stop.
It’s the same with believing in God. God is the source of life. If we don’t believe in Him, we can’t take advantage of the life that He offers us (not because He has something against us, but simply because we don’t avail ourselves of the opportunity) and then - we die and go to the place of the dead, which is called Hell.
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jochoa
Guest
Thank you very much my friend for answering my question. And, I definitely agree with you that everyone of all faiths are welcome to debate here. Please consider the following point:
Although you guess you are still here to be reassured that Catholicism is wrong, I know that one of the reasons you are still here is to help me grow in perspective and consideration, from which I have greatly grown in understanding the knowledge required to understand the Wisdom of the Faith of Catholicism. I can only pray that in time, I may share the knowledge you have helped me realize, and the visions you have helped me see.
Please note: I really enjoy reasoning with doubters, or anybody for that matter. I enjoy considering their perspective because their perspective is valid (now whether or not their perspective is the Fullness of Truth is a separate justification).When I learn how their perspective is valid, I grow in patience/peace, kindness/happiness, motivation/energy, knowledge/wisdom, and most of all Faith. My concern is for your peace. If you are not willing to reason with believers, then participating in a debate with believers is only going to hurt your level of peace for it will be frustrating(aka out of peace) that they do not see what you see. Also, please note, that I am very willing to only debate what you would like to know because the greater purpose is to grow together as a team in patience and kindness. Therefore, if at any point you feel uncomfortable with discussing the topic at hand, please let me know and we will move on. Also, please take care not to judge Jesus or His Church based on followers of Catholicism. Understand the Word by focusing solely on the Words, especially the Greatest Commandments, of Jesus and the Catechisms of His Church.
On that note, please consider the following reasoning as to how I validly justify your perspective:
Although your reasoning of the “world was not created in seven days: is valid”, it is limited to your circular reasoning.
Example to understanding YEC: God says, “I created the earth in seven days.” On the surface, this is incorrect for we know the earth was created over many years. However, when you consider circular reasoning, this is valid. Circular Reasoning: when you realize that God’s time is different than our time because God’s Complete Existence is different than our existence, then “God created earth in seven of his days of His existence.”
Applying this to the difficulties you face accepting the Word:
Recognize that you are operating according to circular reasoning. You are only considering your perspective. If you are unwilling to consider arguments against your reasoning, then your reasoning will always seem absolute. However, recognize there are so many perspectives to learn, and God’s is the most difficult. The only method of understanding His perspective is to become one with the Holy Spirit. Becoming one with the Holy Spirit is when you learn to: Always be and spread the means to be perfectly patient and kind and motivated for God with all your body and with all your spirit and with all your thoughts and with all your will towards God, others, and yourself as Jesus did, as His Church prays and teaches.
Please consider the following points:
- Your prayer has been answered, just as every single human who prays for it receives. You have faith, however, you are using your faith to believe in something other than the Fullness of Truth.
- It is not the Wisdom of the Church that is damaging the reputation of the Church. It is the combination of the lack of knowledge, perspective, and oneness with the Holy Spirit that damages the reputation.
- Based on your statement:”It is not debatable for me…,” the efforts of your mind ended, and are therefore not endless. However, neither I nor your body have lost hope for you. Recognize that you stated that you think you walked away, but yet you are still here. My friend, focus on listening to your body. It tells your mind many feelings of peace, happiness, and energy, and demonstrates many actions of patience, kindness, and motivation. The rest will fall into place. And that is why “Love God with All your Body” is first! Simply Amazing, Our God!
My friend, I am very grateful for you being in my life. I have gained great perspective and excellent vision from pondering your challenging and thought-provoking questions. I hope one day I may share this vision with you.
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Lui
Guest
The difference is that I know a bridge exists for a fact because all people on this planet will tell me that the bridge exists.
Christianity is built on belief and belief only. If only 2 billion people are Christians and from those 2 billion maybe a part actually believe, what makes me think that they are right?
I don’t believe in Hell but I know that I will die if I fall off a bridge.
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LayingHands
Guest
Actually, you have plenty of TIME, since time is eternal and so are YOU, as a part of GOD’s Supersoul…GOD says our only purpose for human consious lives is to consiously, willfully, and constantly, be with HIM, because " After many births and deaths, he who actually in knowledge surrenders unto ME, knowing ME to be the Cause of ALL Causes, and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare".
During the evolution of your eternal spirit soul…you have evolved through all species of living entities, however, then you were ocean creature, animals, plants or trees…this current life, in which you have incarnated into humanity, is the ONLY life form which has a godly, willful consious mind and as such, this opportunity, in this human life form, is your opportunity for your salvation and liberation, to return back to the Supreme Soul, GOD… may be your only chance…if you fall and fail in this life, forgetting your Father GOD, his science of rules and Laws of Material Nature…then he says, in your next lives you may begin the evolutionary cycle, again…the choice is yours, and completely in your hands…GOD says “Always think of me. Become my devotee, Worship Me, and offer your homage unto Me. The result is that you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this, because you are my very dear friend. Engage your mind always in thinking of Me, engage your body in My service: and surrender unto Me. Completely absorbed in Me, surely will you come to ME”…
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buffalo
Guest
Catholicism is the law of life, the life of the intelligence, the solution of all problems. Catholicism is the truth, and everything that departs from it one iota, is disorder, deception, and error.” Juan Donoso Cortes, Marquis of Valdegamas
http://forums.catholic-questions.org/picture.php?albumid=639&pictureid=10820
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