Why are WE here?

[djeter]

Does humaity have a precise reason for existence?

Hi PJM:

Been reading your blog recently. Great posts on the Virgin Mary. Everyone should check it out.

To get to your question: Fr. Robert Barron in his wonderful book Catholicism, tells us that the ancient rabbinic interpreters appreciated the first human being as the prototypical priest and the Garden of Eden as the primordial temple. In fact, the same Hebrew term is used to designate Adam’s cultivation of the soil and, much later in the biblical narrative, the priest’s activity within the Jerusalem Temple. Adam, we hear, walked in easy fellowship with God in the cool of the evening and spoke to him as to a friend. This ordering of Adam to God meant that our first parent was effortlessly caught up in adoration.

The term “adoration” comes from Latin adoratio, which in turn is derived from “ad ora” (to the mouth). adore, therefore, is to be mouth to mouth with God, properly aligned to the divine source, breathing in God’s life. When one is in the stance adoration, the whole of one’s life – mind, will, emotions, imagination, sexuality – becomes ordered and harmonized, much as the elements of a rose window arrange themselves musically around a central point. The beautiful garden in which the first priest lived is symbolic of the personal and, indeed, cosmic order that follows from adoration.

This is why, by the biblical telling, orthodoxy, literally “right praise,” is consistently defended as the key to flourishing and why idolatry, incorrect worship, is always characterized as the prime source of mischief and disharmony. The worship of false gods – putting something other than the true God at the center of one’s concern – conduces to the disintegration of the self and the society. **Another way to formulate this idea is to say that we become what we worship. ** Or if you prefer the old 60’s catchphrase “You are what you eat.”

Why are we here? To praise God. To fulfill our existence as homo adorans. One answer, a myriad of interpretations.

The full Fr. Barron post is here.

In Christ,

dj

 

[prodigalson2011]

That’s just the thing - we atheists don’t spoil our present lives. We realise it’s the only one we get, and instead of wasting it worshipping a man-made concept, we live it. Atheism sets you free!

Hi all; first time poster, long time observer (quite bemused in this case.) As a former atheist, I can’t resist offering this little reflection. Listening to myself and other “evangelical atheists,” it occurred to me that for all of the unbelievers’ criticism of our dependence on Scripture for explanation of our beliefs (which is, of course, a gross misconception) most of the"ne atheists’"s arguments depend on a steady nigh-verbatim regurgitation of Dawkins, Kitchens and the like. How many, I wonder, possess the education and expertise to verify-for themselves, without some degree of blind trust, the totally subjective metaphysical inderences of their favored “prophets.” I would refer you to Denis Noble’s ingenious rewriting of Dawkins’ “selfish gene” proposition, which leaves all the scientifically verifiable data in tact, whilst completely altering the philosophical implications.

Meanwhile, they boast of their superior quality of life, as though believing in God precludes you from enjoying anything that doesn’t transcend the temporal. They then, ever so condescendingly, inform us that they, unlike us, don’t WASTE their lives. Meanwhile, how much precious time do they spend on internet forums about things they don’t believe, and have no apparent interest in believing, bemoaning the failure of those therein to recognize the obvious superiority of their intellect. And who has the God delusion?

 

[prodigalson2011]

Please forgive the many typos; these forums are not exactly smart phone friendly. Also, my apologies to our resident atheists if my previous post was a little aggressive and/or offensive. I don’t mean it to be malicious, but rather only hope that, through sheer bluntneds, you might at least realize that you do cast the religious in a most patronizing light. Not to say that some of us aren’t guilty of the same thing.

 

[jochoa]

The difference is that I know a bridge exists for a fact because all people on this planet will tell me that the bridge exists.
The difference is that I knowChristianity is built on belief and belief only because all people on this planet will tell me that the bridge exists

Please consider the following points:

1. Please recognize that not all people on this planet will tell you that the bridge exists. There are some people who claim that everything we experience is only a figment of imagination. Please note that I would tell you that the bridge exists, however I could also tell you that I think there was a point in time as to which it was a figment of God’s imagination.
2. Please recognize that I know Atheism requires Faith. There will come a point as to which science must default, from the inability to see what happened before the earliest seen event, to Faith. And will have to say in many complex words and justifications, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
   Consider human life coming into existence:There were laws of unchanging forces, and the parents operated according to those laws, and the parents and laws worked in unity to create life.
   Consider planet earth coming into existence: There were laws of unchanging forces, and the single source of all the matter of the planet operated according to those laws, and the source and laws worked together in unity to create the planet.
   Consider the Big Bang: There were laws of unchanging forces, and a single source of all matter of the universe operated according to those laws, and the source and the laws worked together in unity to create the universe.
   Consider the required Faith-Based existence of the single source of the universe (God): John 1:2 DRB - “The same was in the beginning with God.”
   Please note: There is an incredibly content wisdom that is gained from these two Amazingly Graceful lines of Scripture, when one loving ponders the precise wording, structure, and implications.

…what makes me think that they are right?

Once again my friend, please take care not to judge Jesus Christ by His followers. Just as you and I struggle to understand the Fullness of Truth, they do too. Please forgive us, including yourself, for we know not what we do. Also, only you can make yourself think they are right. And to answer your question, content wisdom comes from the Amazing Grace of God’s Word: The Scripture defining and surrounding the Greatest Commandments.
When you ask Jesus, “How do I find Peace in this seemingly crazy world?” He says, “Learn, do, and spread the means to Patience as I have always done and will continue to do.”
When you ask Jesus, “How do I find Happiness in this seemingly crazy world?” He says, “Learn, do, and spread the means to Kindness as I have always done and will continue to do.”
When you ask Jesus, “How do I find the Energy to always be Patient and Kind, even when this seemingly crazy world is making me suffer for unjust causes?” He says, “Learn, do, and spread the means to Motivation for God (something inexhaustible, immaterial, omnipresent, eternal, and personally motivated for you) as I have done and will continue to do.”
I could write much more on the content wisdom found in the Greatest Commandments and John 1:1-2, so please ask if you are interested, I will gladly share.

I don’t believe in Hell but I know that I will die if I fall off a bridge.

Please consider the following points to help you recognize your lack of perspective:

1. What if the bridge is at water-level, how do you know you will die?
2. Even if you do die, how do you know you will not be resurrected for proper judgment?
   Please consider the following, which is based on a developing concept.
   Even if you do not believe in Hell, recognize that anytime someone needs help, they are in a state out of peace, happiness, energy, and/or wisdom, which is the state of Hell. Since s/he is in “Hell”, they need to be helped out of Hell and back into Heaven (unbreakable peace, limitless happiness, unstoppable energy, and content wisdom)!

Thoughts?

 

[BrunoMaria]

**Lui wrote and many others say, they don’t believe in hell. But please note, that he who does not believe in hell, calls Jesus a liar! Who wouldn’t mind to bear such mortal sin?!
How dare you to think Jesus told lies, when He so often warned us of hell and explained hell to us.
If you want to know the verses, simply go to any bible online - or to
jmom.honlam.org/rsvce/
and there give in the searchword HELL and you find the prove.

Yours
Bruno**

 

[buffalo]

Lui wrote and many others say, they don’t believe in hell. But please note, that he who does not believe in hell, calls Jesus a liar! Who wouldn’t mind to bear such mortal sin?!
How dare you to think Jesus told lies, when He so often warned us of hell and explained hell to us.
If you want to know the verses, simply go to any bible online - or to
jmom.honlam.org/rsvce/
and there give in the searchword HELL and you find the prove.

Yours
Bruno

Sister Faustina’s Vision of Hell
“I, Sister Faustina Kowalska, by the order of God, have visited the Abysses of Hell so that I might tell souls about it and testify to its existence…the devils were full of hatred for me, but they had to obey me at the command of God, What I have written is but a pale shadow of the things I saw. But I noticed one thing: That most of the souls there are those who disbelieved that there is a hell.” (Diary 741)
http://www.divinemercysunday.com/srfaust4.jpg The Apostle of Divine Mercy
St. Maria Faustina Kowalska
of the
Congregation of the Sisters of Our Lady of Mercy

      "Today, I was led by an angel to the Chasms of Hell. It is a place of            great torture; how awesomely large and extensive it is! The kinds of            tortures I saw:
      **The First Torture that constitutes hell is**:
 The loss of God.
      **The Second is:**
 Perpetual remorse of conscience.
      **The Third is**
 That one's condition will never change.
      T**he Fourth is:**
 The fire that will penetrate the soul without            destroying it. A terrible suffering since it is a purely spiritual            fire, lit by God's anger.
      **The Fifth Torture is:**
 Continual darkness and a terrible suffocating smell,            and despite the darkness, the devils and the souls of the damned see            each other and all the evil, both of others and their own.
      **The Sixth Torture is:**
      The constant company of Satan.
      **The Seventh Torture is:**
      Horrible despair, hatred of God, vile words, curses and blasphemies.                                                   These are the Tortures suffered by all the damned together, but that            is not the end of the sufferings.
      
      ** Indescribable Sufferings
      **There are special Tortures            destined for particular souls. These are the torments of the senses.            Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings related to            the manner in which it has sinned.
       
      **I would have died
      **There are caverns and pits            of torture where one form of agony differs from another. I would have            died at the very sight of these tortures if the omnipotence            of God had not supported me.
       **
      No One Can Say There is No Hell
      **Let the sinner know that he will be tortured            throughout all eternity, in those senses which he made use of to sin.           **I am writing this at the command of God, so that no soul may find            an excuse by saying there is no hell, or that nobody has ever been            there, and so no one can say what it is like**...how terribly souls            suffer there! Consequently, I pray even more fervently for the            conversion of sinners. I incessantly plead God's mercy upon them. O My            Jesus, I would rather be in agony until the end of the world, amidst            the greatest sufferings, than offend you by the least sin." (Diary            741)

 

[tqualey]

Hi Buffalo,

Thank you for presenting this - I had not read it before! It is indeed a fearful account of what this good sister saw through the power of God. But, naturally, there are those who will continue to doubt there is a hell - and this has the intellectual appeal of a small child whistling in the dark so as not to be fearful.

I am remineded of the parable in Luke 16 about the Rich Man and Lazarus. I think it would be good to review this for the benefit of those who still doubt the existence of Hell.

22When the poor man died, he was carried away by angels to the bosom of Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried, 23and from the netherworld,* where he was in torment, he raised his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24And he cried out, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me. Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am suffering torment in these flames.’ 25Abraham replied, ‘My child, remember that you received what was good during your lifetime while Lazarus likewise received what was bad; but now he is comforted here, whereas you are tormented.j 26Moreover, between us and you a great chasm is established to prevent anyone from crossing who might wish to go from our side to yours or from your side to ours.’ 27He said, ‘Then I beg you, father, send him to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they too come to this place of torment.’ 29But Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.’ 30* He said, ‘Oh no, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31Then Abraham said, ‘If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead.’”

By a special favor of God, Sister Faustina was given a vision of only what the damned see upon their entry into eternal loss. It is like the good sister ‘died’ and returned from this infernal place to report - not only that it exists, but that there are many tortures for those who enter.

Like Bruno Maria said, to deny Hell is call Christ a liar - and, this is truly a very serious offense against God.

God bless

Sister Faustina’s Vision of Hell
“I, Sister Faustina Kowalska, by the order of God, have visited the Abysses of Hell so that I might tell souls about it and testify to its existence…the devils were full of hatred for me, but they had to obey me at the command of God, What I have written is but a pale shadow of the things I saw. But I noticed one thing: That most of the souls there are those who disbelieved that there is a hell.” (Diary 741)
http://www.divinemercysunday.com/srfaust4.jpg The Apostle of Divine Mercy
St. Maria Faustina Kowalska
of the
Congregation of the Sisters of Our Lady of Mercy

      "Today, I was led by an angel to the Chasms of Hell. It is a place of            great torture; how awesomely large and extensive it is! The kinds of            tortures I saw:
      **The First Torture that constitutes hell is**:
 The loss of God.
      **The Second is:**
 Perpetual remorse of conscience.
      **The Third is**
 That one's condition will never change.
      T**he Fourth is:**
 The fire that will penetrate the soul without            destroying it. A terrible suffering since it is a purely spiritual            fire, lit by God's anger.
      **The Fifth Torture is:**
 Continual darkness and a terrible suffocating smell,            and despite the darkness, the devils and the souls of the damned see            each other and all the evil, both of others and their own.
      **The Sixth Torture is:**
      The constant company of Satan.
      **The Seventh Torture is:**
      Horrible despair, hatred of God, vile words, curses and blasphemies.                                                   These are the Tortures suffered by all the damned together, but that            is not the end of the sufferings.
      
      No One Can Say There is No Hell
      Let the sinner know that he will be tortured            throughout all eternity, in those senses which he made use of to sin.           **I am writing this at the command of God, so that no soul may find            an excuse by saying there is no hell, or that nobody has ever been            there, and so no one can say what it is like**...how terribly souls            suffer there! Consequently, I pray even more fervently for the            conversion of sinners. I incessantly plead God's mercy upon them. O My            Jesus, I would rather be in agony until the end of the world, amidst            the greatest sufferings, than offend you by the least sin." (Diary            741)

 

[Lui]

Lui wrote and many others say, they don’t believe in hell. But please note, that he who does not believe in hell, calls Jesus a liar! Who wouldn’t mind to bear such mortal sin?!
How dare you to think Jesus told lies, when He so often warned us of hell and explained hell to us.
If you want to know the verses, simply go to any bible online - or to
jmom.honlam.org/rsvce/
and there give in the searchword HELL and you find the prove.

Yours
Bruno

How can I call someone a liar who A) I’m not sure he actually said that and B) I’m not sure existed in the first place?

 

[Lui]

Sister Faustina’s Vision of Hell
]

Oh, if Sister Faustina said it, it’s gotta be true Maybe she was on the wrong medication.

 

[Lui]

Like Bruno Maria said, to deny Hell is call Christ a liar - and, this is truly a very serious offense against God.

News Flash: the majority of humanity denies the existence of Hell(and Jesus as God). The typical intimidation by certain fanatic religious people: either you believe or you will suffer the worst possible punishment until eternity.
Not even the mafia or fascist Governments are as threatening. I can now see how people in the last 2000 years must have been threatened, intimidated, tortured, killed and exploited if they dared to reject Christianity.

 

[buffalo]

Oh, if Sister Faustina said it, it’s gotta be true Maybe she was on the wrong medication.

Perhaps you should read the diary to see if she was. You should also know of the resistance the Church had for many years and why after she became a saint. But I doubt your a priori worldview would allow you to. So irrational.

 

[buffalo]

News Flash: the majority of humanity denies the existence of Hell(and Jesus as God). The typical intimidation by certain fanatic religious people: either you believe or you will suffer the worst possible punishment until eternity.
Not even the mafia or fascist Governments are as threatening. I can now see how people in the last 2000 years must have been threatened, intimidated, tortured, killed and exploited if they dared to reject Christianity.

News flash - the majority of Americans believe in hell, they just think no one goes there.

Lui, you are exercising your free will by choosing to doubt. However, you are no longer invincibly ignorant, so you should be concerned.

 

[Lui]

News flash - the majority of Americans believe in hell, they just think no one goes there.

News flash: I doubt that and even if so, Americans aren’t the majority of humans on this earth and thankfully Fundamentalists who believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible are the minority. There are several billion Hindus, Buddhists, agnostics, atheists, other religions and even Christians who don’t believe in Hell.

Lui, you are exercising your free will by choosing to doubt. However, you are no longer invincibly ignorant, so you should be concerned.

Is that a threat? YOU should be concerned who you are threatening!!! Go believe in Tinkerbell and leave me alone with your ignorant views.

Why does this remind me of witch hunts of the Middle Ages. All I do is express my freedom of speech and immediately I am threatened with eternal damnation. Last time I checked people of other beliefs are allowed to express their opinions in this forum without getting harrassed.

 

[buffalo]

News flash: I doubt that and even if so, Americans aren’t the majority of humans on this earth and thankfully Fundamentalists who believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible are the minority. There are several billion Hindus, Buddhists, agnostics, atheists, other religions and even Christians who don’t believe in Hell.

Is that a threat? YOU should be concerned who you are threatening!!! Go believe in Tinkerbell and leave me alone with your ignorant views.

Why does this remind me of witch hunts of the Middle Ages. All I do is express my freedom of speech and immediately I am threatened with eternal damnation. Last time I checked people of other beliefs are allowed to express their opinions in this forum without getting harrassed.

I am trying to meet you where you are. Forgive me if I have offended you.

There are many truths that billions do not believe. There are many who have seen and will not believe. There are many who are invincibly ignorant. There are many who are vincibly ignorant.

The search for truth is sometimes uncomfortable. It can get really hot in the kitchen. It is time for us to cool off I think. It feel like I am debating with a youtube atheist.

 

[Lui]

I am trying to meet you where you are. Forgive me if I have offended you.

Posting a HUGE post in big blue letters of a nun who claims she had visions of Hell with 7 of the worst tortures man can think of as a reply to my post and then giving me a warning, is more than offensive. You are forcing your beliefs on me in an aggressive manner.

There are many truths that billions do not believe. There are many who have seen and will not believe. There are many who are invincibly ignorant. There are many who are vincibly ignorant.

Maybe YOU’RE the one who believes in lies. The difference between you and me is I don’t know or claim to know what the truth is but you are convinced that you are the authority of truth.

The search for truth is sometimes uncomfortable. It can get really hot in the kitchen. It is time for us to cool off I think. It feel like I am debating with a youtube atheist.

I feel like I am debating with a person from a fanatic sect: either you follow our beliefs or else.

 

[tonyrey]

If you reject the reality

of guilt you have decided that for yourself!
Just because you believe it’s true doesn’t mean it IS true. [

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/quote.gif

](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=8583267)Just because you believe it’s true doesn’t mean it IS true.
Isn’t it true that you have decided that for yourself?!

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Lui,

A truly remarkable post…

So, here is another ‘News Flash’ - reality is consequeces … and not every one is totally and undeniably obvious at the outset - but its there.

Now that last breath will be compromised with all of the whisteling you will need to be doing… at the end. Just do not kid yourself - this is not a mafia or evil government illusion with all of the horror of child’s ghost story. This is the reality of an eternal consequence.

The good news is that you do not have to go that route.

God bless

News Flash: the majority of humanity denies the existence of Hell(and Jesus as God). The typical intimidation by certain fanatic religious people: either you believe or you will suffer the worst possible punishment until eternity.
Not even the mafia or fascist Governments are as threatening. I can now see how people in the last 2000 years must have been threatened, intimidated, tortured, killed and exploited if they dared to reject Christianity.

 

[tonyrey]

The difference between you and me is I don’t know or claim to know what the truth is but you are convinced that you are the authority of truth.

If you don’t know or claim to know what the truth is how can you possibly reject another person’s claim as false?

 

[Lui]

Hi, Lui,

A truly remarkable post…

So, here is another ‘News Flash’ - reality is consequeces … and not every one is totally and undeniably obvious at the outset - but its there.

Now that last breath will be compromised with all of the whisteling you will need to be doing… at the end. Just do not kid yourself - this is not a mafia or evil government illusion with all of the horror of child’s ghost story. This is the reality of an eternal consequence.

The good news is that you do not have to go that route.

God bless

Thanks for your “advice” but like I said, since I believe Hell is made up by a bunch of people who want to use this theory as a scare tactic to exploit others, it doesn’t concern me.
I believe the whole Bible, the devil, Hell and probably even Jesus is made up by random people just like Peter Pan and Grimm’s Fairy-tales.

If you don’t know or claim to know what the truth is how can you possibly reject another person’s claim as false?

Which claim do I reject as false?

If you mean that I reject Buffalo’s claim that sinners will all burn in Hell according to Sister Faustina’s “visions” as false, it’s not true. I never claimed they are false. I claimed that I don’t believe they are true. I also never claimed that Hell doesn’t exist. I said I don’t believe in Hell. There is a difference.
I can’t disprove the faith of Hindus, Buddhists, Jews or Muslims either. Should I follow all their religions because I don’t reject their claims as false. I can only go by what I believe. I BELIEVE there is no Hell, while buffalo thinks he KNOWS there is a Hell. Get the difference?

 

[meltzerboy]

Does humaity have a precise reason for existence?

As I’m sure you know, this is one of the most profound of all questions regarding humanity. I’m not so pretentious to assert I have the definitive answer to it. If, as others have stated, the purpose of humanity is to love and worship G-d, and in so doing, be charitable toward our fellow humans (and non-human animals), and subsequently go to Heaven to reside in the presence of G-d, that poses another question, namely, why this short, temporary, mysterious, and sometimes painful sojourn on earth to begin with? Possibly as a learning experience involving the development of courage and perseverance in the face of suffering and adversity, so that we may grow closer in our devotion toward G-d, understanding His love for us through our faith and reason, while emulating that love and directing it toward others.