Why are you NOT Catholic, POLL

[benhur]

WHY ARE YOU NOT CATHOLIC?

This poll lists different choices as to what prevents you*** intellectually*** from joining the Catholic Church. There may be practical issues relating to the intellectual issue, but this poll is more about Catholic doctrine and beliefs than issues regarding family or culture, for example.

I am genuinely interested, so any respectful feedback relating to your choice would be greatly appreciated.

PLEASE, in a post, identify

• (1) Your current religious adherence
• (2) Why you are interested in Catholicism – after all, you are here at CAF

Tried to post my poll but apparently can not choose more than one.I would almost vote for entire list but yes, some more than others and some with a few explanations. But basically I feel most ex catholics in my church felt the gospel in CC did not regenerate, that they were not born again, and even told they were told they were (because of works of sacraments-baptism/confirmation).They became born again outside CC and hence remain where they found this new life. So it is more they like where they are more than dislike where they were in CC.

 

[JonNC]

Its not that I don’t like it. I don’t understand it. I wouldn’t be comfortable praying the rosary because I would feel I was praying to someone other than God. I have heard different explanations of why the rosary is prayed but still have the same feelings. Hope that makes sense.

Hi bg,
Always good to have another Lutheran join the forum.

Most of the Rosary you already know and understand, I would think.
The Apostle’s Creed, the Lord’s Prayer, The Glory be to the Father…, even the first part of the Hail Mary a Lutheran can state without qualms.
rosary-center.org/howto.htm#loaded

And here’s one designed for Lutherans:

 

[Starwarsfan2]

I’m a Confessional Lutheran , and I oppose the catholic view of justification , transubstantiation and the invocation of saints , as well as papal primacy , the immaculate conception of Mary and the assumption of Mary , although I support the deuteracanical books , tradition in subjection to the Holy Scriptures and the perpetual virginity of Mary , I’m interested in the Catholic Church because I believe Lutheranism to already be a branch of it , just cleaned of error.

 

[Loly_Maria]

Chose moral issues because it fit best, but there are quite a few reasons why:

• Seen a lot of Catholics be cruel towards me and other people.
• I’m pro abortion.
• I don’t want children so my marriage would be considered invalid, which is ridiculous.
• I’m pro contraception.
• All the sexism in the Church.
• So many conservative people in the Church.
• I support real sex education in schools.
• Multiple other reasons which would be too much to list.

 

[rnmvrck]

1. I was a catholic from birth through catholic grammer school, HS (benedictine monks), and catholic (jesuit college) with minor in Theology. After college, I just could not buy off on what the catholic church was seliing for my own life (pope, mary, saints, …etc.) and some 30 years later I elected to become a non-denominational Christian becuase I found the Bible to be the truth and inspired word of God. I am not anti catholic and I am more interested in being saved by the blood of Jesus Christ than I am about being part of some religion. Jesus Himself was the most anti-religious person of His day. There are so many denominations out there that call themselves “Christian” it is mind boggling. and the word “denomination” is not found anywhere found in the Bible.
2. I attended Roman Catholic Church with my wife up to last year until she decided to change from Catholic to evangelical. I basically read my Bible during RC church service. And NO, I did not ever try to convince my wife to change as that is a personal decision. Rather, she met a business associate who asked her to go to Bible study meetings and the metamorphiss took place.
3. I am here because I am studying the foundational beliefs of Christian religions and I know the Catholic Church has changed thinkings since I was a member of the RCC. Back in the day, I could not even go to the YMCA because the RCC convinced my parents that the YMCA is not a good place for a Catholics becuase it had the word Christian in it and I was taught to believe that “Christain” was “evil”. I actually have a blog (about what the Bible says will take place until the Second Coming of Jesus Christ comes which I believe is very close based on what the Bible says), and I often get questions about other Christian denominations, Judaism, Islam. I believe that knowledge and understanding is eseential and very important since I believe that people need to know God’s plan and how they can obtain salvation through the death and blood of Jesus Christ. in these days, many deceivers will come in His name, but they are not the Jesus of the Bible.

 

[Lucretius]

Hi bg,
Always good to have another Lutheran join the forum.

Most of the Rosary you already know and understand, I would think.
The Apostle’s Creed, the Lord’s Prayer, The Glory be to the Father…, even the first part of the Hail Mary a Lutheran can state without qualms.
rosary-center.org/howto.htm#loaded

And here’s one designed for Lutherans:

I’m shocked how many of the commenters on this thread are Lutherans, actually. I expected mostly atheists and Evangelicals, actually

Christi pax,

Lucretius

St. Henry, prayer for us!

 

[Wyrd]

Several reasons.

1. I do not believe Hell is Just. An eternity of punishment for a finite time of evil seems disproportionate. Also, it does not allow for reconciliation unlike Buddhism and reincarnation for example.
2. It seems inconsistent in the universe in which we live. For example, the problem of animals as moral agents, were we to encounter aliens or create artificial intelligence it would be inconsistent, quantum theory and probability being in contrast with Determinism, etc.

 

[JonNC]

I’m shocked how many of the commenters on this thread are Lutherans, actually. I expected mostly atheists and Evangelicals, actually

Christi pax,

Lucretius

St. Henry, prayer for us!

I think there’s just quite a few of us here right now. That, and, "Arise O Lord and judge Thy cause. A wild boar has invaded Thy vineyard,” we Lutherans being the descendants of said wild boar.

Jon

 

[IdiNaPut]

Something else I struggle with, and something which I know Pope Francis has addressed recently, is the historical involvement of Catholicism in such events as the destruction of the Aztec empire, during WWII and more recently. Particularly as I’m a historian, I find the wholesale destruction of people’s and of historically significant artefacts such as the entire writings of the Toltec people, countless ancient Roman and Greek manuscripts, temples and sites and so on particularly painful.

 

[bjess8411]

I don’t even agree with everything a Baptist church does and believes, but as far as Catholicism, I just don’t agree with Marian theology. Mary did have sexual relations with Joseph after Jesus was born. For one the Bible says that they had relations and second brothers and sisters of Jesus are mentioned in the Gospels and one of the letter writer was the brother of Jesus. The whole concept of a Pope is a bit strange as well. I wouldn’t call a priest father either because that directly contradicts Jesus saying not to call anybody father on earth. God is our only father.

 

[bjess8411]

The list of options was made in no particular order.

I would disagree that the Church has “moved closer” to Lutheranism. I believe language and misunderstandings have been better resolved, and we see that our beliefs are closer than once thought. But indeed, the Catholic faith does not teach that one can attain salvation without Charity in the heart, so ultimately faith alone is denied, unless that faith is an active faith-working-in love.

I am a big Bible believer because they are the inspired words of God, and I totally agree in charitable works but doesn’t the Bible also say that if we call on the Lord and confess him with our mouth we will be saved? I also believe in endurance in the faith, Someone can’t just jump ship in this life because things get hard and expect God to just welcome them with open arms. I couldn’t face God if I committed suicide for example. Another one is the mark of the beast. You cannot go to heaven if you take that symbol. So it seems to me that faith works very closely with works and that we have to trust God to will and do in us according to his good pleasure as far as combining faith with good works.

 

[bjess8411]

great affection for the Catholic church

not catholic because

birth control
Pope Primacy
women Priests (lack of)
open Eucharist ( lack of)
Perpetual Virginity of Mary
Assumption of Mary
clergy celibacy
Parishes too large
various views on sin
Purgatory

I agree that clergy celibacy is wrong. That pretty much goes against scripture. Peter was married as well as all the other Apostles except Paul and Barnabas. Purgatory I don’t believe in because it isn’t biblical and Mary was not God or Jesus. She was a sinful woman who was given the grace to raise the Lord and carry him in her womb. She should be honored for that and the Bible said she would be honored for being God’s earthly mother.

 

[bjess8411]

A bunch of people who will not convert to Catholicism but spend copious amounts of tm on Catholic.com…hilarious

It definitely makes me more open to Catholicism! There are strong Catholics and weak Catholics just like there are strong and weak Baptists. I don’t agree with everything Baptists do either. They do things unbiblically as well. I have been looking for a decent Christian forum for a while and finally found it here.

 

[bjess8411]

I would agree with everything cmodmac lists and would add sexual difficulties that your church has found itself in. There is, shall we say, an unhealthiness that is prevalent. I am Anglican (born and raised) and very happy to be so, both theologically and in practice. Plus, you have to admit, we have WAY better hymns.

Funny, I actually like Liturgy and chants way better than the baptist praise and worship or hymns! Although hymns have there place too!

 

[bjess8411]

No infinite afterlife for me. I must love on my family as hard as I can in this life. I must experience all that I can in this life. This life is too short to let any organzed religion tell me what my purpose is, I must define my own purpose. For me that purpose is to help people, that is how I attain fulfillment.

.

I am not sure if this is the appropriate place to respond, but I can’t live like this! Why should I love my family if this life is all I have? Why be good? It seems like without God it is just easier to end it all and call it a day or do whatever you want in life until you die. Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow you die. You know? Without God I can’t feel any sense of love in this life. Love, security, hope, and more only comes to me from God, especially reading the Bible and learning about godly Christians. Of course, I have struggles with the faith, everyone does. I struggle with whether and why God would really want me. I also struggle with my tendency towards sin. Still, I find Christianity is the best way to live and makes me so happy. It is such a wonderful way of living.

 

[bjess8411]

Look inside AMerica’s prisons. Virtually No Atheists. (0.07%)

Its very possible to good without a god. Nonbelievers just recognize the intrinsic value of being good, they are not doing it for a supernatural reward or trying to avoid eternal punishment.

I don’t agree with that example because in America so few people are Atheists! Why be good if there is no heaven and no God? Why not just do what you want? I used to feel kind of distant from my faith as a young adult and teenager and I always thought that if I abandoned the faith the most logical way of life would just to do what I want. I never wanted to be good without God, personal preference, but I just don’t see the point.

 

[bjess8411]

Of the fact that atheists aren’t doomed to some sort of “simplistic” relativism.
As far as I can see, there are 3 potential origins of “truth.” First is the God origin. The second is the opinion origin where truth is the majority view which doesn’t qualify as truth. The third is some sort of evolutionary gene that was ingrained in us over time or from the beginning. And that is really only instinct. There is no backing behind that besides the material (Don’t kill the guy because his buds will comes kill you). Plus, that gets into the “where did the genes come from anyway” problem which gets us into the “God” question.

Great conversation though. Makes a person think.

True. I agree. My grandparents raised my dad as an atheist and my dad converted to Christianity as a young adult after he had me but my grandparents as lifelong atheists were very moral and sweet people. The thing is my dad as a Christian did the right thing by me even though he often did not want to and would rather have abandoned us.

My problem with it is what is the point? Why be good just to be good? Another question I have is can you really be good and live in a way you are completely satisfied with in your inner being? I don’t have that ability. I have such problems living what I would like to live and being the person I would like to be. I constantly do the things I do not want to do. I have problems creating the life I would like to have on this earth. How would an atheist deal with that conflict? I guess doing good just goes against my human nature and takes a lot of work, so why put yourself out to live that way if there is no reward, no afterlife, no God of love, no Christ and so forth? Does any of that make sense?

 

[bjess8411]

It is much easier now. With the influx of northerners moving south the Catholic population has grown dramatically. The county in which i reside now has 5 parishes and an Oratory house. Back in the 60’s it was just one very small parish and a handful of Oratorians that have been here since the 30’s. But it is still the south. Out of a state population of 4.6 million, Catholics are still under 200,000. While many parishes and missions have opened up across the state, in the less urban areas you will drive awhile to get to a parish. But the Catholic footprint goes way back. Charleston has had an active Catholic Presence since the early 1800’s. The first Baptist Church in the south was also in Charleston in the early 1600’s.
By the way, if the Oratory you visit is in Rock Hill, SC, the Priest you mention is from Louisiana.

Hey Pulvis ( or whatever your real name is!) I am from South Carolina as well. Right now I live in the central part of the state. It’s nice to see another South Carolinian! I am considering exploring the Catholic faith more and attending mass some day this week. Nice to meet you!

 

[bjess8411]

One of the priests from the Oratory I visit is from Alabama (or some State in the South). I’ll have to ask him if he was raised Catholic and if not why did he convert and join a St. Philip Neri Oratory (BTW, he has an accent ).

Is being a Baptist culturally oriented more to the deep South? I would guess, based on my knowledge of history, that Episcopalians would be more common in States such as Virginia and North Carolina.

In Pittsburgh its really hard not to find a Roman Catholic Church! Is it very hard to find a parish to worship at in the South? Or do you basically have to go to a city for Mass?

Christi pax,

Lucretius

Good question, but I don’t think so. . I see Baptist churches all over the place and there really isn’t a larger majority of Baptist churches in the south. They do have different types of Baptists though. My parents decided to become Baptist even though they are originally from Indiana because of the strong Bible influence. They didn’t grow up in the church though, except my mom was a nominal Christian and grew up Disciples of Christ. There was no emphasis on real practice in the church she grew up in according to the things she has told me. They were converted in an Assemblies of God church. Now our family believes in Jesus and everything and we try to live out our Christian convictions but we are not great church attenders. That is part of the reason why I am more open to Catholicism. I like that church can be on other days whenever it is most convenient instead of mostly Wednesday night, Sunday night and Sunday morning. I also would like to find a Christian tradition I was really excited about so I would be motivated to get more involved.

 

[spedteacherita]

A bunch of people who will not convert to Catholicism but spend copious amounts of tm on Catholic.com…hilarious

I am here to learn about Catholicism - probably not convert after some of the things I’ve learned but I think it’s very important to understand religions around us. As a Lutheran I feel it’s even more important to understand what is taught in Catholicism as we are very close in some of the ways we worship. I know that there are significant differences but I’ve learn a lot since I joined in October and I feel there is more yet that I can learn.

Besides, discussing my faith and beliefs with other Christians has helped me focus on Christ a whole lot more.

God bless all!!

Rita