Why are you not Catholic?

[PRmerger]

That wasn’t my question.

You want to know how many US Catholic women dissent on the teaching on ABC? And how many of them were celibates/religious?

Search here:

google.com/

And then come back and let us know what you found.

 

[exnihilo]

I think Catholics can be a little more reserved when it comes to fellowshipping. I believe a lot has to do with so many cafeteria Cats in the Church. We need to be more engaging, but that does NOT mean abandoning the Sacraments! It means working at it where Jesus is. Not taking the easier path to a more “friendly” or “outgoung” crowd. Paul never compelled this kind of direction to his communities. He worked on converting their hearts and attitudes to change, not to go somewhere which was doing better in some areas.

Cats in church! Well that is a serious problem.

One thing I started thinking about a while back was how different church today can be. Before the car it would seem to me you’d be going to church with people you already knew, your neighbors. Your lives would naturally intertwine outside of church. This can be a very good thing. Learning to love your neighbor can be particularly difficult when they are your actual neighbor with all the attending annoyances that can result.

 

[Tomdstone]

I make no expectations whatsoever. .

Search here:

google.com/

And then come back and let us know what you found.

 

[mek42]

What would your option be?

Re-marrying?

Can you cite the statistics of how well families do with divorce and re-marriage?

Are they quite successful?

Please cite your source. Thanks.

Having trouble finding any statistics regarding subsequent marriages following an abusive marriage. Any advice on how to search for this would be appreciated.

Did the Church use such statistics when the policy was made?

If statistics show that the abuse rate for a remarriage after an abusive marriage is lower than that of the general population, would you consider that Church policy has room for improvement?

 

[PRmerger]

Having trouble finding any statistics regarding subsequent marriages following an abusive marriage. Any advice on how to search for this would be appreciated.

Did the Church use such statistics when the policy was made?

Ummm…do you mean did Jesus use such statistics when policy was made?

'Cause I’m pretty sure that it was Jesus who said divorce and re-marriage is adultery. The Church just delivered the message without editing it.

 

[rcwitness]

Having trouble finding any statistics regarding subsequent marriages following an abusive marriage. Any advice on how to search for this would be appreciated.

Did the Church use such statistics when the policy was made?

If statistics show that the abuse rate for a remarriage after an abusive marriage is lower than that of the general population, would you consider that Church policy has room for improvement?

It’s not a policy, but a Divine law. This desire to “improve” Church Doctrine which has been handed down from the Apostles and even explicitly found in Scripture is unfortunate. I don’t blame you, but the spirit behind this. The basis for remarriage of a divorce is to avoid suffering injustice as a Christian. I have been told (by Protestants) that in a marriage that warrants a legal divorce because of adultery and abandonment or abuse, that there can be determined “no hope for reconciliation” and therefore granted permission to remarry! This is a lie from below! Paul explicitly commands, from the Lord, that in such a situation there is either reconciliation or remaining single until one spouse has died. Whether Catholics or Protestants believe or follow or not is irrelevant. What matters is what the Church professes in Scripture and Teaching.

Marriage is likened to the relationship Jesus has with His Church. There is no such thing as “no hope for reconciliation” until someone dies. Many shallow Christians just care about finding their own happiness, instead of doing what Jesus says and receiving the joy that comes with obeying Him. Remarriage is like condemning your own flesh and blood, instead of forgiving and offering hope to your bride, who is lost.

Ummm…do you mean did Jesus use such statistics when policy was made?

'Cause I’m pretty sure that it was Jesus who said divorce and re-marriage is adultery. The Church just delivered the message without editing it.

Very correct

 

[Tomdstone]

'Cause I’m pretty sure that it was Jesus who said divorce and re-marriage is adultery. The Church just delivered the message without editing it.

The Catholic Church allows marriage annulments. And His Eminence Walter Cardinal Kasper has said that in some cases a marriage annulment is a divorce in a Catholic way, in a dishonest way.
americamagazine.org/content/all-things/cardinal-kasper-some-fear-domino-effect-synod-family

 

[Louie1983]

The Catholic Church allows marriage annulments. And His Eminence Walter Cardinal Kasper has said that in some cases a marriage annulment is a divorce in a Catholic way, in a dishonest way.
americamagazine.org/content/all-things/cardinal-kasper-some-fear-domino-effect-synod-family

Divorce and Annulments are two very different things.

Divorce acknowledges that there was a marriage.

An annulment as defined by the CCC is below:

"For this reason (or for other reasons that render the marriage null and void) the Church, after an examination of the situation by the competent ecclesiastical tribunal, can declare the nullity of a marriage, i.e., **that the marriage never existed. **In this case the contracting parties are free to marry, provided the natural obligations of a previous union are discharged. - Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 1629)[2]

 

[Tomdstone]

Divorce and Annulments are two very different things.

Divorce acknowledges that there was a marriage.

An annulment as defined by the CCC is below:

"For this reason (or for other reasons that render the marriage null and void) the Church, after an examination of the situation by the competent ecclesiastical tribunal, can declare the nullity of a marriage, i.e., **that the marriage never existed. **In this case the contracting parties are free to marry, provided the natural obligations of a previous union are discharged. - Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 1629)[2]

The Catholic marriage tribunal requires that the couple get a divorce even before looking at their case for annulment. Cardinal Kasper appears to disagree with your analysis, at least according to his published comments on the issue.

 

[Louie1983]

The Catholic marriage tribunal requires that the couple get a divorce even before looking at their case for annulment. **Cardinal Kasper appears to disagree with your analysis, at least according to his published comments on the issue./**QUOTE]

Among others Tom:

From your link:

“Several cardinals – including the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Gerhard Muller, and the Prefect of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Segnatura, Raymond Burke, have opposed Kasper’s opening on the question of the divorced and remarried”

 

[PRmerger]

The Catholic Church allows marriage annulments.

Yes. You are absolutely correct about this.

And His Eminence Walter Cardinal Kasper has said that in some cases a marriage annulment is a divorce in a Catholic way, in a dishonest way.
americamagazine.org/content/all-things/cardinal-kasper-some-fear-domino-effect-synod-family

Perhaps in some cases it is.

What’s your point?

 

[PRmerger]

The Catholic marriage tribunal requires that the couple get a divorce even before looking at their case for annulment.

Yes. You are also correct on this.

Not sure, again, what the point is?

 

[steve_b]

I think it’s a bit of a stretch to suggest that the “going back and forth” on this forum is what Scripture is calling for. There’s a point where we need to be ready to just back off and give the appearance of conceding a point when it’s not worth while. (Not necessarily talking about your exchange with lonegreywolf here–more about my runaround with you and steve b earlier on the thread, which I kept going long after it had lost any utility it had ever had.)

Edwin

The thread took on a specific teaching (contraception) here. #214 then expanded to #237 and then I entered this part of the conversation here #241. I was responding to your point. I wasn’t clear on where you stood, so I tried in posts that followed, to find out where you were on the subject. If my following posts in your opinion were a runaround, it’s because I didn’t think you were clear on what you believed in that area.

 

[Richard_White]

No thank you.

I will be getting a vasectomy. The Lutheran church isn’t against me getting a vasectomy.

You see, this is another way of taking the easy way out. You realize that the Catholic Church forbids sterilization and contraception (because it is evil) and that the Lutheran denomination allows it; therefore, you unfortunately (although it is obviously not the only reason) remain with the Lutheran denomination because of this false allowance because it is easier and more “convenient” for you. No offense, but that is really bad.

May God bless you and lead you back to His Holy Catholic Church!

 

[Reuben_J]

You see, this is another way of taking the easy way out. You realize that the Catholic Church forbids sterilization and contraception (because it is evil) and that the Lutheran denomination allows it; therefore, you unfortunately (although it is obviously not the only reason) remain with the Lutheran denomination because of this false allowance because it is easier and more “convenient” for you. No offense, but that is really bad.

May God bless you and lead you back to His Holy Catholic Church!

 

[Thorolfr]

You see, this is another way of taking the easy way out. You realize that the Catholic Church forbids sterilization and contraception (because it is evil) and that the Lutheran denomination allows it;

Are you sure you didn’t mean to say “Catholic denomination” and “Lutheran Church”?

 

[Richard_White]

Are you sure you didn’t mean to say “Catholic denomination” and “Lutheran Church”?

No, not by a long shot.

 

[outremer]

Why do we debate it in this day and age? Denominational differences don’t matter any more.

The devil knows Christians are one, says Pope Francis

The devil, he said, “knows that Christians are disciples of Christ, that they are one, that they are brothers! He doesn’t care if they are Evangelicals or Orthodox, Lutherans, Catholics or Apostolic … he doesn’t care! They are Christians.”

Don’t try to out-Catholic the Pope The Catholic Church does not seek the conversion of non-Catholics anymore. Trent is outdated for these times.

 

[PRmerger]

Why do we debate it in this day and age? Denominational differences don’t matter any more.

The devil knows Christians are one, says Pope Francis

Don’t try to out-Catholic the Pope The Catholic Church does not seek the conversion of non-Catholics anymore. Trent is outdated for these times.

Christians ARE indeed one.

But that doesn’t mean that “denominational differences don’t matter”.

Of course they do.

Why?

Because Truth matters.

So, either the Pope IS the vicar of Christ…or he is the antichrist…or he is simply an executive or elder in the Church.

Either divorce and re-marriage is adultery…or it is a reason to celebrate in another wedding ceremony.

Baptism saves…or it simply gets you wet.

Sunday is the Lord’s Day…or it is Saturday, and anyone who celebrates on Sunday is part of the whore of Babylon.

See? See how we cannot overlook doctrinal differences?

 

[MartinJordan]

Why do we debate it in this day and age? Denominational differences don’t matter any more.

The devil knows Christians are one, says Pope Francis

Don’t try to out-Catholic the Pope The Catholic Church does not seek the conversion of non-Catholics anymore. Trent is outdated for these times.

Actually it doesn’t matter to the devil. He likes discord between Christians. The Pope is clear on that. The Pope in fact wants true unity.

"The John 17 Movement — named after the Bible passage in which Jesus prays for the unity of his disciples — includes evangelicals and Catholics. One of the participants at the Phoenix meeting was Giovanni Traettino, a Pentecostal pastor from southern Italy whom the pope has known since his days in Buenos Aires. The Pope visited Traettino’s church last summer.

The Pope promised Traettino and all those gathered in Phoenix that he would spend the day praying with them for the grace of unity, “the unity that is budding among us is that unity which begins under the seal of the one baptism we have all received.”

MJ