Why aren't Catholics more conservative in dress?

[consecrated_one]

Hello,
I just wanted to know why Catholic women and girls don’t cover their hair with veils like they used to? God doesn’t change and the Bible says we should cover during Mass and during prayer. It could be argued women should cover constantly as we are told to pray without ceasing. Why don’t Catholic women and girls wear dresses to Mass and constantly? The Bible says to. Are we all just “slaves to fashion”? The Blessed Mother warned at Fatima that there would be fashions which would greatly offend Our Lord. Perhaps we are offending Him with some of our masculine or revealing garments? Let’s all just do what the Bible says and Change the Culture!
1 Corinthians 11:3-16
Deutoronomy 22:5

 

[damooster]

Hello,
I just wanted to know why Catholic women and girls don’t cover their hair with veils like they used to? God doesn’t change and the Bible says we should cover during Mass and during prayer. It could be argued women should cover constantly as we are told to pray without ceasing. Why don’t Catholic women and girls wear dresses to Mass and constantly? The Bible says to. Are we all just “slaves to fashion”? The Blessed Mother warned at Fatima that there would be fashions which would greatly offend Our Lord. Perhaps we are offending Him with some of our masculine or revealing garments? Let’s all just do what the Bible says and Change the Culture!
1 Corinthians 11:3-16
Deutoronomy 22:5

I know where this is going!

 

[Hotchkiss]

Hello,
I just wanted to know why Catholic women and girls don’t cover their hair with veils like they used to? God doesn’t change and the Bible says we should cover during Mass and during prayer. It could be argued women should cover constantly as we are told to pray without ceasing. Why don’t Catholic women and girls wear dresses to Mass and constantly? The Bible says to. Are we all just “slaves to fashion”? The Blessed Mother warned at Fatima that there would be fashions which would greatly offend Our Lord. Perhaps we are offending Him with some of our masculine or revealing garments? Let’s all just do what the Bible says and Change the Culture!
1 Corinthians 11:3-16
Deutoronomy 22:5

Because the Church in Her wisdom no longer requires them to. Females are certainly free to wear head coverings in church if they wish but it’s no longer a requirement.

Some like to offer the argument: “the Bible demands that women cover their heads in church so they must!” In cases like this it’s important to follow what the Church actually directs and not what our own personal interpretations of Scripture suggest to us.

For if we are to be Bible-literalists according to our own interpretations, many Catholics males would be wearing tefillen according to Sacred Scripture as their use was in no way “abrogated” with the New Covenant in Jesus Christ:

Exodus 13:9 - And it shall be to you as a sign on your hand and as a memorial between your eyes, that the law of the LORD may be in your mouth; for with a strong hand the LORD has brought you out of Egypt.

Exodus 13:16 - It shall be as a mark on your hand or frontlets between your eyes; for by a strong hand the LORD brought us out of Egypt."

Deuteronomy 6:8 - And you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.

The negative part I sometimes see is women wearing mantillas as some sort of crowns. There is never a talk about wearing hats in church. In fact I have seen women wearing very appropriate hats at Mass that were scorned by women wearing mantillas! How horribly ironic.

 

[lcalise]

It could be argued women should cover constantly as we are told to pray without ceasing.

Covering the head, as I have always seen it, is a sign of humility and reverence before the Blessed Sacrament, an outward acknowledgment of the more important inner reverence. Humility and modesty, however, aren’t limited to being veiled. You can be veiled, but if you’re showing a pound of cleavage, I doubt that the veil carries much weight with the Lord. Besides, you’re really taking Corinthians out of context. (I’d check the footnotes on the USCCB website.)

Why don’t Catholic women and girls wear dresses to Mass and constantly? The Bible says to.

No, it doesn’t. It says not to wear a “man’s apparel.” This is entirely a culture conditional statement; consider kilts, togas, kimonos etc. In our modern culture, pants are not definitively men’s apparel. Plus, I believe (and haven’t found a definitive statement otherwise) that it’s the spirit of Deuteronomy that’s important, namely, embrace your gender and don’t try to disguise or pretend you’re otherwise, such as by changing your outward appearance.

The Blessed Mother warned at Fatima that there would be fashions which would greatly offend Our Lord.

Yeah, and there are! It’s called immodest dress. THAT is the enemy and the distraction. I mean, seriously, what’s more offensive: An uncovered woman wearing a modest pants suit to Mass or a woman wearing a veil with a short dress and heels (yes, I’ve seen it)?

Now, personally, I think dresses and skirts are generally more modest garbs (especially for a woman like me who has a badonkadonk and looks kind of 'hoish in pants), but, again, I believe modesty in dress is the objective and it can be accomplished in many ways.

 

[DJgang]

I grew up in a Southern Baptist Church.

I sometimes drop my jaw at what people wear to Mass.

At first, I was really surprised at the casual clothing. I was use to seeing suits, ties, etc. However, I got over that really fast. That’s not important.

What I am talking about right now is…tight jeans and shirts, tight sweats, pants up the crack and even showing crack…a lady in front of me just this weekend bent over to pick up her baby and I got a eye full of her gut, yep, sticking out from under her shirt and coat!

I don’t care if women cover their heads … or even if they wear a skirt … just cover your body, especially the parts that I don’t want to see … and I am a woman! geez!

 

[daeve]

Hello,
I just wanted to know why Catholic women and girls don’t cover their hair with veils like they used to? God doesn’t change and the Bible says we should cover during Mass and during prayer. It could be argued women should cover constantly as we are told to pray without ceasing. Why don’t Catholic women and girls wear dresses to Mass and constantly? The Bible says to. Are we all just “slaves to fashion”? The Blessed Mother warned at Fatima that there would be fashions which would greatly offend Our Lord. Perhaps we are offending Him with some of our masculine or revealing garments? Let’s all just do what the Bible says and Change the Culture!
1 Corinthians 11:3-16
Deutoronomy 22:5

I’m not being sarcastic, but I’d like to know where the Bible says I should wear a dress. I don’t even own a dress for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with you. I dress very modestly all the time, and I’m not masquerading as a man. I don’t cover my head and I’m not required to do so. If the day comes when the Pope says Ladies, get out your chapel veils, I will. Until then, I’m fine the way I am.

 

[migurl]

I think that there are a lot of things to consider when one gets dressed in the morning. Where are you going?
if I’m staying home I can wear whatever I want since no one is going to see me except my Hubby and two kids. Once the kids are asleep, that too changes things.
If I am going to the store, what is wrong with a pair of pants as long as they aren’t too tight or too low? If it looks like I had to paint my clothes on, that is a bad thing!
Also to be considered, what response are you looking for? women know good and well why they wear an outfit, perhaps the color brings out their eyes etc. If an outfit shows a lot of skin the goal is to show that skin off to others. I have outfits that I would wear on a private date with my Hubby at home but I would never wear outside because I don’t want the reaction I get from him to come from other men. I think that a dress or skirt can be more offensive than a pair of slacks on some women. If your intention is to attract men in a lustful way, then it doesn’t matter what you are wearing. Besides, I know men who think lustfully about a women dressed very modestly.

 

[peary]

Hello,
I just wanted to know why Catholic women and girls don’t cover their hair with veils like they used to? God doesn’t change and the Bible says we should cover during Mass and during prayer. It could be argued women should cover constantly as we are told to pray without ceasing. Why don’t Catholic women and girls wear dresses to Mass and constantly? The Bible says to. Are we all just “slaves to fashion”? The Blessed Mother warned at Fatima that there would be fashions which would greatly offend Our Lord. Perhaps we are offending Him with some of our masculine or revealing garments? Let’s all just do what the Bible says and Change the Culture!
1 Corinthians 11:3-16
Deutoronomy 22:5

Many Catholics in the West have “sold out” to secularism, and have put that above their Faith. Our Lady of Fatima, in a vision to Jacinta Marto, said, “Fashions will be introduced that will offend my Son very much,” and that “More souls go to Hell because of immodesty than any other sin.” It’s something to think about, to be sure.

 

[Marie5890]

At least they are showing up TO Mass, rather than doing something else.

People go to Mass because they want to these days. Dont ignore that.

 

[fabricdragon]

1. during the whole press mess about vatican II… a reporter asked one of the Cardinals if women still had to wear veils.
   he said something like “we kind of have some more important things we are discussing”
   and the reporter went off and said “Vatican says no more veils!”

in actual fact, the rule to cover your head at Mass was NEVER rescinded. its just not really spoken of.
(this is, incidentally, why female visitors to the Pope, even now, have to wear a veil/hat/something)

there is, incidentally over in the “water cooler” section of the clubhouse a whole forum for women who cover… and a whole thread on head coverings.

as to clothing. NO the Bible never, ever, says women have to wear dresses. women in biblical times didnt wear “dresses” in any case. what the bible says is “wear clothing appropriate to your gender” so dont dress up as a guy if you are a girl. or vice versa

the bible also says women should dress modestly, and our adornments should be modesty, virtue, and humility…

given some of the dresses out there i assure you i am FAR more modest in my pants and a tunic sweater than in most typical dresses

 

[Lainey63]

opcorn:Another thread on women, head coverings & dresses. I will just sit back & watch:slapfight::blackeye::stretcher:.

 

[Hotchkiss]

At least they are showing up TO Mass, rather than doing something else.

People go to Mass because they want to these days. Dont ignore that.

Why is that false dichotomy always brought up on this topic?

 

[ProVobis]

Hello,
I just wanted to know why Catholic women and girls don’t cover their hair with veils like they used to? God doesn’t change and the Bible says we should cover during Mass and during prayer. It could be argued women should cover constantly as we are told to pray without ceasing. Why don’t Catholic women and girls wear dresses to Mass and constantly? The Bible says to. Are we all just “slaves to fashion”? The Blessed Mother warned at Fatima that there would be fashions which would greatly offend Our Lord. Perhaps we are offending Him with some of our masculine or revealing garments? Let’s all just do what the Bible says and Change the Culture!
1 Corinthians 11:3-16
Deutoronomy 22:5

I have a question. You started the thread and titled it “Why aren’t Catholics more conservative in dress.” I’ll agree with that train of thought as I see more conservative dress in leisure-dressed restaurants. But then you ask about head coverings. What does that have to do with conservative dressing?

 

[ProVobis]

Because the Church in Her wisdom no longer requires them to.

That’s not entirely true. There are parishes where signs are put up requiring women to wear veils and modest dresses and men to wear business casual or better. However, those signs are mostly ignored these days. Catholics don’t seem to like rules anymore. So I guess you could say “in Her wisdom” because no one would obey it and they would look foolish for even suggesting it.

 

[tabsie3210]

Hello,
I just wanted to know why Catholic women and girls don’t cover their hair with veils like they used to? God doesn’t change and the Bible says we should cover during Mass and during prayer. It could be argued women should cover constantly as we are told to pray without ceasing. Why don’t Catholic women and girls wear dresses to Mass and constantly? The Bible says to. Are we all just “slaves to fashion”? The Blessed Mother warned at Fatima that there would be fashions which would greatly offend Our Lord. Perhaps we are offending Him with some of our masculine or revealing garments? Let’s all just do what the Bible says and Change the Culture!
1 Corinthians 11:3-16
Deutoronomy 22:5

Hello! Very interesting question. I can’t speak from Sacred Tradition or from any scholarly perspective, but I can answer according to my own life:

1. Women are not required to wear veils or head coverings all the time, according to the teachings of the Church. Had a nun at my church for a while who never even wore a habit, yet was always modestly dressed.
2. I work in a business that has a high percentage of non-Catholics, as in over 90%. While I would like to see all of them brought into the true Church, I know that I’m neither going to be appreciated for my attempts at evangelization, nor will I be successful because I’m not an apologist by any stretch. I know my limits.
3. Working in the business I do, were I to wear head coverings or skirts at all times, I might invite some curious questions and friendly debate, but I may also invite problems from my company’s Baptist clients, among others. I would rather wear skirts occasionally, pants occasionally, and no head covering (since I’m not required to) because it’s less hassle.
4. I have to work outside the home because I live at home with my parents, my father is retired and a colon cancer survivor, and my mother works 3 days a week, 12-hour-days, and constantly has to take care of my father all the time on her days off, so my added cash flow is necessary.

A lot of times the world requires women to work outside the home, and while we are told to pray constantly, we also are to be industrious - which is also in the Bible. A good-hearted, God-fearing, working woman is a joy to a man’s life - or to her parents’ if she is needed at home. So I think that we have to pay more attention to how we dress: be respectful of others and ourselves in how we present our bodies. But while we are not of the world, we still have to live in it. And that means we have to make some sacrifices to get along.

I hope this perspective helps you!

 

[dixieagle]

1. during the whole press mess about vatican II… a reporter asked one of the Cardinals if women still had to wear veils.
   he said something like “we kind of have some more important things we are discussing”
   and the reporter went off and said “Vatican says no more veils!”

in actual fact, the rule to cover your head at Mass was NEVER rescinded. its just not really spoken of.

The 1983 Code of Canon Law quite specifically abrogated the entire 1917 Code, in which there was reference to head covering (note; NOT “veil”.) Had Holy Mother Church thought that women covering their heads was something that they should still be doing, you can be sure it would have been specifically mentioned.

Inter Insigniores, a letter from the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith promulgated in 1976, and approved by Pope Paul VI, says this: *“But it must be noted that these ordinances, probably inspired by the customs of the period, concern scarcely more than disciplinary practices of minor importance, such as the obligation imposed upon women to wear a veil on their head (1 Cor 11:2-16); such requirements no longer have a normative value.” * papalencyclicals.net/Paul06/p6interi.htm
Clearly, the Church was moving away from requiring head coverings, even prior to the revised 1983 Code.

(this is, incidentally, why female visitors to the Pope, even now, have to wear a veil/hat/something)

As a personal note, our family was privileged to be granted (through our Archbishop’s intercedence, we believe) a private audience with Pope John Paul II inside his private apartments. The night before, one of the sisters who took care of the Pope and handled such things called us to detail the protocol, appropriate dress, etc. We were told to wear knee-length or longer skirts, covered arms…with NOTHING mentioned or required with regard to head covering. There were about 20 people - 4-5 families - waiting at the same time for their audiences. The only one wearing a headcovering was a Spanish woman wearing a mantilla according to her custom. No one batted an eye, and clearly no one cared whether we had our heads covered or not. We were dressed modestly and respectfully.

as to clothing. NO the Bible never, ever, says women have to wear dresses. women in biblical times didnt wear “dresses” in any case. what the bible says is “wear clothing appropriate to your gender” so dont dress up as a guy if you are a girl. or vice versa

the bible also says women should dress modestly, and our adornments should be modesty, virtue, and humility…

given some of the dresses out there i assure you i am FAR more modest in my pants and a tunic sweater than in most typical dresses

Agreed.

 

[rein_me_in_Lord]

“But the fruit of the spirit is … mildness, faith, modesty, continency, chastity.”—Gal. v. 22, 23.

That goes for all of us.

 

[Ohiomom]

opcorn:Another thread on women, head coverings & dresses. I will just sit back & watch:slapfight::blackeye::stretcher:.

Yes, lets get ready to rumble, lol. :slapfight::takethat:

I chose to just wear dresses and skirts and I cover at mass (EF or OF), but I will just duck my head and keep walking. Many opinions are entrenched on these issues

 

[consecrated_one]

Hello, everyone!
My logic goes something like this:
A woman is required to wear a headcovering to have an audience with the Pope.
A woman is required to wear a dress (skirt suit,etc) to an audience with the Pope.
Both of our most recent First Ladies did this.

Now, how much greater and more worthy of our humility and honor is Our Lord and Savior, with whom we will have much more than “an audience” as He will dwell (body, blood, soul, and divinity) within our very selves. Not an external “Hi, nice to meet you”. But within our hearts and souls. And for this miraculous event we do LESS than for a mere man. Our God deserves better than our Pope. No matter how much I, personally, like our Pope.

So that’s my train of thought, I’m sure some will find it a bit “derailed”. But if you follow the old step-by-step path, it’ll get you there. I apologize that I failed to define conservative in clothing:
Dresses/skirts
near knee length or longer
No sleeveless
no low cut
Headcovering

Men
Shirt
Tie
Sportcoat

These are just suggestions

 

[consecrated_one]

Hello,
My logic goes like this

A woman must wear a headcovering and a dress or skirt/suit to have an audience with the Pope

How much more important and glorious is our reception of Our Lord and Savior? Doesn’t He deserve at least as much respect and reverence in our comportment?

For me it’s easy, Jesus trumps the Pope! He gets all honor and Glory and should get the best in our attire as a way to show that respect.