Why aren't there on demand priestly miracles?

[Cristiano]

Thanks for the response, but Matthew 10 5:8 is a command.

Jesus sent out these twelve after instructing them thus, "Do not go into pagan territory or enter a Samaritan town.

Go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

As you go, make this proclamation: ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’

**Cure the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, drive out demons. **

My question still stands…why do priests have some apostolic miracles ( all invisible), but none of the outward ( visible miracles) that the apostles could perform?

Why did the Roman Catholic Church determine that it has the power to retain the invisible miracles, but not the visible miracles?

Did the twelve enter into pagan territory or Samaritan towns?
I think that you have to put things into context in order to understand the ministry of the apostles at that point in time.

 

[LilyM]

Firstly, as has been pointed out, many of the saints, including sainted priests like St Padre Pio and the Cure of Ars, DID perform miracles.

Secondly - remember that even Jesus didn’t raise every dead person or heal every sick person in existence (he surely didn’t even heal every sick person or perform other miracles simply for the asking - remember the Pharisees who were seeking signs? Or Herod likewise?).

And even He had problems - for example with the blind man who at first couldn’t see properly when Our Lord wanted to heal His sight? These things say to me that miracles depend in part on the one upon whom they are performed as well as the one who performs them (Jesus so often said ‘your faith has healed you’ rather than ‘I have healed you’ that it seems He was trying to make this point too.)

 

[hawkeye]

Any answer…anyone?

First Epistle Of Saint Paul To The Corinthians

Chapter 12.

**1 Now concerning spiritual things, my brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 2 You know that when you were heathens, you went to dumb idols, according as you were led. 3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man, speaking by the Spirit of God, saith Anathema to Jesus. And no man can say the Lord Jesus, but by the Holy Ghost. 4 Now there are diversities of graces, but the same Spirit; 5 And there are diversities of ministries, but the same Lord; **6 And there are diversities of operations, but the same God, who worketh all in all. 7 And the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man unto profit. 8 To one indeed, by the Spirit, is given the word of wisdom: and to another, the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit; 9 To another, faith in the same spirit; to another, the grace of healing in one Spirit; 10 To another, the working of miracles; to another, prophecy; to another, the discerning of spirits; to another, diverse kinds of tongues; to another, interpretation of speeches.

Saint John Bosco raised the dead, SAINT STANISLAUS Bishop of Cracow, Martyr (1030-1079) raised a dead man.

And to this day it goes on…Father Fernando Suarez raises a dead woman.

Fr Fernando You Tube

 

[DeaconVocation]

I think there is actually a pretty simple answer to this. Now keep in mind, if you are truly Catholic, that our faith is a three-legged stool based on Scripture (written tradition), Oral Tradition passed on, and the Magisterium of the Church.

That said, we as Catholics are taught that what God revealed to us is his salvation plan. There is infinitely more to learn about God that he did not reveal.

Likewise, we are taught that Christ established his Church to aid us in our salvation. It is significantly easier to be saved by becoming a faithful member of Christ’s Church than not to be.

So the ordained, as the priestly members of Christ’s Church, are here as instruments of Christ to aid in our salvation. So in the examples you mention, two (reconciliation and consecration) are sacraments instituted by God to give us grace. Reconciliation offers us reconciliation with God and sanctification; the Eucharist is the source and summit of our faith, a necessity for salvation according to Christ. So priests must be able to perform these sacraments* in persona Christi*, as ways to get us to heaven.

On the other hand, raising the dead and healing the sick are not part of God’s salvation plan. Nor are other miracles you mention like curing lepers, etc. It is apparent by examining history that God permits these miracles to occur from time to time, per His will - we really do not know why or when He chooses. But they are not necessary for salvation. So that’s why priests cannot do them at will. He gives humans certain powers related to salvation in His name, He reveals certain things about himself related to His salvation plan. Nothing more. Get to heaven to find out the rest!

By the way, the name of our Church is the Catholic Church, not the Roman Catholic Church. If you are truly Catholic, you may not realize that RCC is a term developed by Protestants as a means to dilute the definition of Christ’s church, that it is “catholic” (meaning universal, all Christians) not “Catholic” (the specific church founded by Christ through the Apostles and their successors).

I hope this helps. I am a bit skeptical of your motivations, but I thouht a question deserved an answer. Everything I discussed here is in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, if you use the index you should be able to read a lot more detail about this explanation and see the Biblical and Early Church Fathers’ discussions on these topics by examining the footnotes, which are extensive. If you need clarification please ask, but I won’t be answering any more on this thread if it doesn’t look like you did your homework with the CCC.

Good luck and God bless!

 

[jcrichton]

I guess it’s really too bad that we can’t have on-demand miracles. It would help to solve the health care crisis, not to mention providing wine for wedding receptions.

…lest the health care industries demand their own miracles so that none be cured and lest the ex’s do not demand their own miracles to have the wedding derail before the couple’s final toast!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[onetimeposter]

Ok, thanks for the effort in the well detailed responses. It’s a fairly reasonable explanation, as provided by more than one poster.

This isn’t a vexing issue for me anymore.

Thanks

 

[myredeemerlives]

Has anyone see what’s going on with the Florida revival… the deaf hear, the blind see (one guy through a glass eye!), and 31 people raised from the dead so far.

I see miracles all the time occuring in my church. It’s still around.

 

[onetimeposter]

and 31 people raised from the dead so far.
:

You’ll have to back that one up with evidence…that’s a mighty big claim.

 

[myredeemerlives]

Google florida outpouring for the official website. I’ll leave it up to you to discern whether or not you believe it.

 

[Me_4rm_India]

Google florida outpouring for the official website. I’ll leave it up to you to discern whether or not you believe it.

Mt:7:22:
22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity. (DRV)

Lk:21:8:
8 Who said: Take heed you be not seduced: for many will come in my name, saying: I am he and the time is at hand. Go ye not therefore after them. (DRV)

Mk:13:6:
6 For many shall come in my name saying, I am he: and they shall deceive many. (DRV)

Jn:6:26:
26 Jesus answered them and said: Amen, amen, I say to you, you seek me, not because you have seen miracles, but because you did eat of the loaves and were filled. (DRV)


BTW I dont believe in it.

 

[myredeemerlives]

I kind of figured that by the scriptures you posted.

Mark 16:17, “these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils.”

 

[onetimeposter]

I don’t believe in charismatic evangelical faith healers, especially any claims of raising the dead…not in any way.

 

[GailMac]

Dear OneTime, It seems your dilemma with the limitations God places on the working of miracles in our world is the problem. While reading through the posts on this thread I found myself hearing the same lament that was spoken by the unrepentant thief while he and his companion lay dying next to Jesus, Who was also dying upon the Cross for their sins. He wanted Jesus to “prove” something by freeing them all. He made a demand upon God that went unfulfilled. The other guy was only repentant, and even tried reaching out to the other. He only wanted to be remembered by God when His Kingdom came. For this we remember him as the “Good Thief,” Dismas by name. Many folks demanded “signs” from Jesus that He was Who He said He was and many didn’t get those demands fulfilled. Why? Ask God that one. Perhaps it has something to do with humility.

Now that I’ve said that about the attitude you seem to have, I’ll address the question: why doesn’t God work miracles through all His priests as you and others demand? Repeat that question slowly to your self. Do you really think God needs to prove anything to anyone? But that you may believe, I give a link to a certain Priest of God who did all the miracles you request and more. Research his life and his miracles and you will find your answer. LINK: ewtn.com/padrepio/index.htm

It is plainly clear that we have these types of miracles among us since the very beginning of the Church and will continue to have them until the end of time. Our Saints do these things. If you took the time to study the lives recorded of the Saints, you would find plenty of “proof” that God does indeed work in a marvelous and mysterious way. However, I don’t get the impression that you are asking so as to have your doubts healed, but rather prefer to argue against the Church. Am I wrong? I hope so.

Peace,

Gail

 

[mercygate]

Ok, thanks for the effort in the well detailed responses. It’s a fairly reasonable explanation, as provided by more than one poster.

This isn’t a vexing issue for me anymore.

Thanks

Thanks, onetime. A lot of people don’t bother to acknowledge when people jump on and try to give an explanation for a queston.

 

[onetimeposter]

Your missing the spirit of my post.

My skepticism is the fact that the Catholic Church claims that they have the apostolic authority for their priests to somehow receive the power, via the Holy Spirit, to turn bread into the the flesh and blood of Jesus.

The issue is not that I do not believe that miracles take place, the issue is that the Church has determined that they are able to grant the power, through the Holy Spirit and guarantee that all their ordained clergy can turn bread into the flesh of Christ.

If God wanted to turn bread into flesh, He would…that is not my concern. My concern is the belief that the Church states it has the power to turn an ordinary man into a person who has the power through the Holy Spirit, to turn bread into the flesh of the Son of God.

Even if the scripture was 100% crystal clear ( the words I speak are spirit) I still do not see where the Church believes it received the authority to give their priests the power to turn bread into Christ.

’ Do this in memory of me?’ I’m not sure how the Church believes that this is explicitly telling them that they are to ordain priests and grant them power to consecrate hosts at Mass.

Although, it is clearer why the Church believes that it has the authority and the belief to grant some of the acts the apostles performed and other actions, are not given to every ordained priest.

 

[Layman]

A priest can petition God for a healing. It’s up to God whether to grant it.

He won’t grant every petiiton, as then no one would suffer, thus depriving us of opportunities to learn about His creation and His mercy.

And if a priest had healings regularly granted, I doubt the priest would publicise it. I have the notion a genuinely holy man doesn’t want the attention. It would bring all the nut-jobs flocking.

Read about St. Padre Pio, and what he had to put up with with the ferocious ‘ladies’ who tried to monopolise his time.

Priests could do more, if they wished. As lay people, however, we’ll never know just what they have to put up with, especially in these Satanic times.

 

[mercygate]

Has anyone see what’s going on with the Florida revival… the deaf hear, the blind see (one guy through a glass eye!), and 31 people raised from the dead so far.

I see miracles all the time occuring in my church. It’s still around.

Is this Todd Bentley? Not buyin’ it. These ‘miracles’ have not been authentcated by appropriate, impartial scrutiny. Evangelicals – including Pentecostals – are giving this the big thumbs-down.

 

[mercygate]

I don’t believe in charismatic evangelical faith healers, especially any claims of raising the dead…not in any way.

I do not reject ANYTHING. All things are possible with God. Are all things probable? Not in this universe. So if somebody is going to make a radical claim, it is perfectly acceptable – and even mandated – that we require a very high level of documentary evidence before we jump on board.

The “miracle” of Lourdes is that the spring emerged during modern times, in an age of skepticism; from day one the place was set up to discredit any suggestion of auto-suggestion, hysteria, or “enthusuiasm.” When a miracle is authenticated by their system, you can be sure that EVERY possible explanation other than divine intervention has been ruled out.

 

[onetimeposter]

A priest can petition God for a healing. It’s up to God whether to grant it.

Yet, the Church claims that priests have the power, through the Holy Spirit, to turn bread into Christ’ flesh…every time.

 

[mercygate]

Your missing the spirit of my post.

My skepticism is the fact that the Catholic Church claims that they have the apostolic authority for their priests to somehow receive the power, via the Holy Spirit, to turn bread into the the flesh and blood of Jesus.

The issue is not that I do not believe that miracles take place, the issue is that the Church has determined that they are able to grant the power, through the Holy Spirit and guarantee that all their ordained clergy can turn bread into the flesh of Christ.

If God wanted to turn bread into flesh, He would…that is not my concern. My concern is the belief that the Church states it has the power to turn an ordinary man into a person who has the power through the Holy Spirit, to turn bread into the flesh of the Son of God.

Even if the scripture was 100% crystal clear ( the words I speak are spirit) I still do not see where the Church believes it received the authority to give their priests the power to turn bread into Christ.

’ Do this in memory of me?’ I’m not sure how the Church believes that this is explicitly telling them that they are to ordain priests and grant them power to consecrate hosts at Mass.

Although, it is clearer why the Church believes that it has the authority and the belief to grant some of the acts the apostles performed and other actions, are not given to every ordained priest.

There are several places from which this power derives – and don’t forget, a priest never confects the Eucharist WTIHOUT the power of God acting through him.

1. We know that the power to “do this” had to last until the end of time because in John 6, the Lord says we must “eat my flesh” in order to have life.
2. He promised the Holy Spirit to the Eleven, to “guide you into all the truth.”
3. It was to the Apostles that he said “do this.”
4. He breathed the power of the Holy Spirit into the Apostles on Easter Night with the power to forgive sins. That power is chiefly manifested, not only by confession and absolution but by the Person of Jesus Christ, present in the Eucharist. All the sacraments are One.
5. The Church, the Body of Christ, confects the the Eucharist in the power of the Holy Spirit. We are all “a royal priesthood.” But the Church, fulfills the OT prototype of ministerial priesthood for particular ministries. This is laid out unequivocally in the NT in the orders of bishop, priest and deacon.
6. Apostolic succession is transmitted through the laying on of hands as seen in the NT. In Nehemiah, when the exiles return to Jerusalem to the restored Temple, the Levites are required to prove their genealogy in order to serve in the Temple. Those who could not show their Levite ancestry were not permitted to serve. The “genealogy” of the Church is in its episcopal lines. This authenticates the continuity of teaching and of the charism.
7. The primary ministry of the Church is to baptize and to “do this”. We have assurance, therefore, that the Church has the power to baptize and to “do this.”