Why aren't there on demand priestly miracles?

[onetimeposter]

I’ve posted this question a few times in related posts…it is always ignored. Is it too tough a question?

The RCC claims that priests have the power to forgive sins from apostolic succession.

The RCC claims that the apostles went out and forgave the sins of people. The scripture isn’t exactly crystal clear, but that is what they believe.

We know from scripture, that the apostles were ordered by Jesus to cleanse the lepers and raise the dead. ( perform miracles in his name)

Why then does the Church claim that it’s priests have the power through apostolic succession to forgive the sins of men…but these same priests do not have the power to raise the dead or cleanse the lepers, which would also be through apostolic succession?

Same question for transubstantiation. Priests have the miraculous ability to turn bread into Jesus whenever they want…but again, they don’t have the power to raise the dead or cleanse lepers whenever they want.

Any answer…anyone?

 

[AJ85]

Anointing of the sick? God forgives sins through a priest, the priest doesn’t forgive sins. It’s the same with healing. I’m not sure about raising the dead though.

 

[onetimeposter]

Anointing of the sick? God forgives sins through a priest, the priest doesn’t forgive sins. It’s the same with healing. I’m not sure about raising the dead though.

Your missing the spirit of my posts.

Priests can perform the miracle of transubstantiation at every Mass.

Priests can pronounce the forgiveness of sins or the retention of sins every single time they are hearing confessions.

Why then can’t priests raise the dead when ever they want and why can’t they heal the sick when ever they want.

The first two sacraments, the Church claims the apostles performed, so as a result, their priests through apostolic succession, can perform those actions.

The other two actions, we know, the apostles performed, so why do the powers of apostolic succession only work for some things and not all of the miracles…especially the clearly documented miracles of cleansing the lepers and raising the dead?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Why then can’t priests raise the dead when ever they want and why can’t they heal the sick when ever they want.

Please show me in Scripture and Tradition that the apostles ‘raised the dead whenever they wanted and healed the sick whenever they wanted.’

Yes, the apostles did heal the sick and raise the dead. . .but not ‘whenever they wanted’. If they could have done so, then why didn’t St. John come and raise up St. Peter and St. Paul after their deaths? He ‘could have’ by your logic if, as an apostle (which he most certainly was) he could 'raise the dead whenever he wanted.)

For that matter, we know that St. James was ‘killed by the sword’ and that St. Peter was held in chains and freed by an angel.

Why didn’t St. Peter or St. Paul raise St. James? They could have, by your logic. Why didn’t St. Peter free HIMSELF if he could work miracles 'whenever he wanted?"

 

[onetimeposter]

Please show me in Scripture and Tradition that the apostles ‘raised the dead whenever they wanted and healed the sick whenever they wanted.’

Matthew 10 5:8

 **Jesus sent out these twelve after instructing them thus**, "Do not go into pagan territory or enter a Samaritan town.

**Go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

As you go, make this proclamation: 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

**
Cure the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, drive out demons. Without cost you have received; without cost you are to give.

Yes, the apostles did heal the sick and raise the dead. . .but not ‘whenever they wanted’. If they could have done so, then why didn’t St. John come and raise up St. Peter and St. Paul after their deaths? He ‘could have’ by your logic if, as an apostle (which he most certainly was) he could 'raise the dead whenever he wanted.)
**
Then why can they turn a piece of bread into Jesus whenever they want? If they can’t cleanse the sick whenever they want, why then can they loose and bind whenever they want?** Why then are their priests that can drive out demons, but there aren’t priests that can raise the dead?

For that matter, we know that St. James was ‘killed by the sword’ and that St. Peter was held in chains and freed by an angel.

Why didn’t St. Peter or St. Paul raise St. James? They could have, by your logic. Why didn’t St. Peter free HIMSELF if he could work miracles 'whenever he wanted?"

Your answer my question with a question.

What is the theological grounding that ordained clergy have some apostolic powers, but not all apostolic powers. Who decided what powers they would retain and what powers would not be carried over?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Well, OTP, your misunderstandings are so rife that it would take a book to not only refute them, but to explain where you went wrong.

I suggest: The Catechism of the Catholic Church. Try reading it through so that you will know what the Church teaches, and not misinterpret and misunderstand Church teachings and then argue over the misinformation. No one can help you if you’re arguing something ‘wrong’ and claiming it ‘right’ in the teeth of the evidence.

 

[Matt_2]

Priests do not forgive sins. God does. Only God knows a person’s heart. And why would God have have a problem with priests consecrating the bread? If it is God’s will that a person die, then why would he let a person raise somone from the dead against His will?

 

[onetimeposter]

If it is God’s will that a person die, then why would he let a person raise somone from the dead against His will?

Ask Jesus, he instructed his apostles to raise the dead.

I actually think that I have stumbled upon a question that may have some very difficult answers…no one has even attempted to answer it.

To dismiss my question outright, only emboldens my belief that perhaps there is a contradiction at play.

Priests can do some miracles the apostles could do, but not the others.

WHY?

 

[onetimeposter]

Priests do not forgive sins.

What sins you forgive will be forgiven, what sins you retain, will be retained.

Yes, Priests have the power to grant absolution through Christ.

Why can’t they raise the dead or heal the sick through Christ, the apostles could!

 

[jcrichton]

I’ve posted this question a few times in related posts…it is always ignored. Is it too tough a question?

The RCC claims that priests have the power to forgive sins from apostolic succession.

The RCC claims that the apostles went out and forgave the sins of people. The scripture isn’t exactly crystal clear, but that is what they believe.

We know from scripture, that the apostles were ordered by Jesus to cleanse the lepers and raise the dead. ( perform miracles in his name)

Why then does the Church claim that it’s priests have the power through apostolic succession to forgive the sins of men…but these same priests do not have the power to raise the dead or cleanse the lepers, which would also be through apostolic succession?

Same question for transubstantiation. Priests have the miraculous ability to turn bread into Jesus whenever they want…but again, they don’t have the power to raise the dead or cleanse lepers whenever they want.

Any answer…anyone?

Hi, Searching…!

I think that you are confusing what would serve as the signs of Jesus’ Disciples with Jesus’ actual commands:

Sings:
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name they shall cast out devils. They shall speak with new tongues. 18 They shall take up serpents: and if they shall drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them. They shall lay their hand upon the sick: and they shall recover. (St. Mark 16:17-18)

Commands:
Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. (St. Matthew 28:19)

34 A new commandment I give unto you: That you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one for another. (St. John 13:34-35)

11 And now I am not in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name whom thou hast given me: that they may be one, as we also are. 12 While I was with them, I kept them in thy name. Those whom thou gavest me have I kept: and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition: that the scripture may be fulfilled. 13 And now I come to thee: and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy filled in themselves. 14 I have given them thy word, and the world hath hated them: because they are not of the world, as I also am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from evil. 16 They are not of the world, as I also am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them in truth. Thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for them do I sanctify myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth. 20 And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me. 21 That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given to them: that, they may be one, as we also are one. 23 I in them, and thou in me: that they may be made perfect in one: and the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them, as thou hast also loved me. (St. John 17:11-23)

The signs are not necessary for Salvation; they simply assist the world in recognizing Jesus’ Disciples; we must understand that at her infancy the Church may have needed such visible signs to exist in order to demonstrate her authenticity (Church founded by Christ Jesus, the Word Incarnate). But the important task of Jesus’ Disciples is to spread the news of the Kingdom of Heaven and Salvation for all who Believe in Jesus (Jn 1:1-14; 3:14-21; 3:1-13; 6:25-58; 11:25-26). For this purpose He founded His Church (Mt 16:18-19; Jn 20:19-23). Jesus gave full Authority to the Church (Mt 18:15-18) and He made it clear that signs were not the Way to Salvation (Mt 24:23-31) and that Faith is preferred by God over acceptance due to witnessing signs (Jn 20:26-29).

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[onetimeposter]

Thanks for the response, but Matthew 10 5:8 is a command.

Jesus sent out these twelve after instructing them thus, "Do not go into pagan territory or enter a Samaritan town.

Go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

As you go, make this proclamation: ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’

**Cure the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, drive out demons. **

My question still stands…why do priests have some apostolic miracles ( all invisible), but none of the outward ( visible miracles) that the apostles could perform?

Why did the Roman Catholic Church determine that it has the power to retain the invisible miracles, but not the visible miracles?

 

[jcrichton]

Thanks for the response, but Matthew 10 5:8 is a command.

Jesus sent out these twelve after instructing them thus, "Do not go into pagan territory or enter a Samaritan town.

Go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

As you go, make this proclamation: ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’

**Cure the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, drive out demons. **

My question still stands…why do priests have some apostolic miracles ( all invisible), but none of the outward ( visible miracles) that the apostles could perform?

Why did the Roman Catholic Church determine that it has the power to retain the invisible miracles, but not the visible miracles?

Is this a reply to my post?

If it is, I cannot help you as it seems that you are not searching for answers but attempting to find fault. The Holy Scriptures are not meant as a means to war.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[AJ85]

What sins you forgive will be forgiven, what sins you retain, will be retained.

Yes, Priests have the power to grant absolution through Christ.

Why can’t they raise the dead or heal the sick through Christ, the apostles could!

So if a person isn’t really sorry for their sins, they are forgiven anyway? Of course not. It is the same with healing. Some people have been healed by God through priests, but it must be His will. We really don’t know if someone’s sins are forgiven. Only God does.

 

[onetimeposter]

Is this a reply to my post?

If it is, I cannot help you as it seems that you are not searching for answers but attempting to find fault. The Holy Scriptures are not meant as a means to war.

Maran atha!

Angel

Wow, so it seems that there isn’t an explanation.

 

[onetimeposter]

So if a person isn’t really sorry for their sins, they are forgiven anyway? Of course not. It is the same with healing. Some people have been healed by God through priests, but it must be His will. We really don’t know if someone’s sins are forgiven. Only God does.

When you are sorry, you go to confession, I absolve thee, you are forgiven, ipso facto.

By your logic…

You really don’t know if the Eucharist is the real presence. Only God knows for sure.

 

[AJ85]

When you are sorry, you go to confession, I absolve thee, you are forgiven, ipso facto.

By your logic…

You really don’t know if the Eucharist is the real presence. Only God knows for sure.

Let’s just say I lived a terrible life. I never made and effort to live a good life because I can just go to confession. On my death bed, I give my confession, and I’m saved.
You don’t believe that do you?

 

[onetimeposter]

Let’s just say I lived a terrible life. I never made and effort to live a good life because I can just go to confession. On my death bed, I give my confession, and I’m saved.
You don’t believe that do you?

If your sincerely sorry and repent…of course your saved!

I’m just not entirely convinced that you have to confess to an ordained Catholic priest in order to receive the promises of Christ.

 

[AJ85]

If your sincerely sorry and repent…of course your saved!

I’m just not entirely convinced that you have to confess to an ordained Catholic priest in order to receive the promises of Christ.

But we don’t know whether someone is truely sorry or not. You act like just because someone goes to confession their sins are forgiven, but you don’t know because you can’t read minds or souls. It is the same with sick people. They will be healed if it is God’s will.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

OneTimePoster:

I sincerely suggest that, since you identify yourself as “Catholic” in your profile, that rather than scattershot all through these fora with the questions and doubts you are obviously having, only to ignore posters who try to explain the teaching as ‘not knowing’ or posting further dissention in the guise of questioning the answers. . .

You instead go to your priest, your parish RCIA instructor, your catechism teacher if you are still in school. . .and discuss these doubts with professionals. . .IF you want answers.

If you want to come onto message boards and ‘ask’ questions only to refute the answers because you’ve already made up your mind that there ARE no answers you’ll accept, you’ll only make yourself miserable.

If you want answers, many posters have given you documents, directions to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (found on-line), suggestions as to people in authority with whom to talk about these doubts and concerns.

DO you want answers. . .or do you only want to post ‘bait’ and to ignore those people who are trying to give you the help you claim to want?

 

[jcrichton]

Wow, so it seems that there isn’t an explanation.

There is but you refuse to accept it!

Maran atha!

Angel