Why Aren't We Taking about Mental Health?

  • Thread starter Thread starter SanRafael1102
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

SanRafael1102

Guest
The question is simple: every time one of these shootings occur, a big debate erupts over whether or not we need/would benefit from gun control. One side is typically on the right, while the other’s on the left.

The point is, while we disagree on gun control, but sides seem to agree that we have a mental health problem. The dems agree, the reps agree, even Trump seems to agree.

If we want to disagree about guns, and talk about guns, that’s fine. But why can’t we also do something about Mental Health in the interim?

Thoughts?
 
I’m not sure that mental health is the solitary cause of these tragedies anymore than lack of gun control. There are some people that just have a severely malformed conscience. That doesn’t necessarily mean they have a mental disorder.

I do think we need to talk about a lot of these things. But I’m not convinced any one of them is going to be the magical thing that will stop these tragedies from happening.
 
I would also say that the issue s very complicated and the societal taboos that persist from the 50s and before also make it difficult.
 
Right.

One thing that a lot of the shooters have in common is domestic violence. Do all people who commit domestic violence have a mental illness? What about cultures where “harsh treatment” of women and children is the norm?

These men have a sense of entitlement and I doubt sitting down with a mental health professional was on their list of things to do. These guys aren’t flying under the radar; the signs are there but we ignore or minimize them.
 
Out of the ten worst mass shootings in the US, five were attributed to mental illness, that’s not including the Las Vegas shooting as a mental illness, which it may turn out to be. One was a terrorist attack. That leaves 3 or 4 caused by ‘domestic’ issues.

20% of all mass killings are committed by the 4% of the general population that have a major mental illness. That is not even to speak of those who have a minor, or even a transient, mental illness.

Massive problems plague the US regarding treatment of mental illness. Those problems are what need attention. Fixing those problems are what will give struggling people a means to satisfaction rather than having the rare outcome of a mass killing by someone who has been forgotten on the fringes of society, or someone who will not seek help for various other reasons, of which also need to be addressed.
 
Last edited:
So if we do something about mental health, what would we do? Who would pay for it? Is the issue lack of access or is it stigma or some mix? Are there societal factors that are influencing either the development of mental illness or its manifestations? How much of this can the government even do anything about? If the government isn’t doing anything, who should? How do we do it in a way that prevents abuse or unnecessary restriction of those with mental illness in general, if we even can?

Not that I’m saying it’s not an issue, but it’s one that’s going to end up crossing over with a dozen other issues, all of which are controversial.
 
There are so many wackos out there. Trying to tag and bag all of them is impossible. The United States places too much value on individual rights for that to happen.

Most people who are mentally ill are not gong to become mass murderers.

Practically, I’m not sure what can be done. Most people in our society are just too self-absorbed or simply too legitimately concerned with their immediate family and personal concerns, perhaps, most of all, the society at large is lacking in compassion on a certain level to engage “sick people”, and most people will see a marginalized, unsettled person and instinctively keep a fair distance from them. That certainly doesn’t lend itself to the “at risk” members of society having their issues addressed.
 
Last edited:
I think addressing mental health is theoretically a good idea and worth discussing. Most of the mass shooters are people with seriously disturbed souls. Not necessarily mental disorders; the malformed conscience point was a good one. The problem is, many mentally disturbed people don’t seek treatment. And if they’re not seeking treatment; they’re not going to respond favorably to being forcibly put into a therapist’s office.
 
One of the strengths of our religious institutions is to preach and teach morality.

We don’t see as much of that nowadays as we used to in earlier times.
 
DarkLight said:
So if we do something about mental health, what would we do? Who would pay for it?
Click to expand...
Since it would benefit all of us as a society, how about we all pay for it?
Is the issue lack of access or is it stigma or some mix?
Click to expand...
Lack of access, yes. And some stigma.
Are there societal factors that are influencing either the development of mental illness or its manifestations? How much of this can the government even do anything about?
Click to expand...
Rather than looking for aspects of the problem that government can’t do anything about, how about looking at aspects of the problem that government can address?
How do we do it in a way that prevents abuse or unnecessary restriction of those with mental illness in general?
Click to expand...
…very thoughtfully - since such abuse was a real thing in the past and to some extent still is.
Not that I’m saying it’s not an issue, but it’s one that’s going to end up crossing over with a dozen other issues, all of which are controversial.
Click to expand...
That an issue is controversial is no reason to avoid it absolutely.
 
We seem to talk about this constantly. The real problem is that a lot of mentally ill people don’t function well out in the world largely on their own. They need a lot of support or even in some cases need an institutional setting. We do not have enough support or institutions to take care of all these people, and there are questions about who would pay for them and what their responsibilities would be.

Also, the vast majority of mentally ill people do not go out and commit mass murder. There are thousands of them who only might harm themselves (perhaps through bring unable to take care of themselves) or be victims of another’s harm. When mentally ill people do commit violence, it’s often on a family member or close friend. We had something like three or four murders in my area in 2 years all involving mentally ill people who got in a violent altercation with their moms who they were staying with. None of these cases involved a gun, but knives and in one case a pillow used to smother.
 
My point is, it’s not that it’s not talked about. It’s talked about - it’s just that there’s so many other issues involved that no one can agree on what to do.
 
DarkLight said:
My point is, it’s not that it’s not talked about. It’s talked about - it’s just that there’s so many other issues involved that no one can agree on what to do.
Click to expand...
If that means it is indeed a big complicated problem with no easy solution, I agree.
 
A lot of the issue came about when they started the drive to deinstitutionalize those with mental health issues in the 1960s. They did this without first setting up alternative treatment options which largely still don’t exist today. Before people with mental health issues were mostly placed in mental health institutions. As funding was cut many of these became overcrowded and had bad conditions. Instead of fixing the issues they mostly just shut them down and kicked them out on the street. (In the case of one local hospital I have heard stories from the police there where the hospital staff literally placed them outside the doors of the hospital and locked the doors and then walked away to find new jobs because they all go laid off) Since then jails and prisons are often the only treatment violent individuals receive and often immediately stop once they get out. The issue changed from a medical issue to a law enforcement issue because no one else can compel anyone to receive medical treatment from the street which is why we see all the run ins between law enforcement and mental health. Noone else will deal with them so the police are forced to when they start acting out due to lack of treatment and attack someone, steal, are using illegal narcotics, etc…

Most places (espically rural or overcrowded metro areas) have no alternative to bring someone to other than a jail. Mental health crises centers (in those few places they exist) will usually not take violent individuals.
 
Attributed to mental illness but there was still DV, and that’s the thing society ignores.

I saved an article to read later on the killers who slipped through the cracks, for mental health diagnosis and treatment, I’m guessing. Mental health isn’t easy to diagnose but DV? DV is swept under the rug as a private matter instead of the public safety matter it is.
 
Blame the 1950s is a common thing here. And a significant number of people either did not live through it or know about it.
 
You are correct… It is truthful to say that there is a lot of stigma for the fifties on this forum.
 
The other thing I hasten to add is that mental health care might not be the best way to stop mass killings and the focus should be on getting more people the care that they need and reducing the stigma so more seek help and without it making a person ineligible for health insurance because it’s a “pre-existing condition.” I sought therapy through Catholic Charities in the late 80s and that made me ineligible for any health insurance for over a decade. So don’t talk about mental health care if you think people like me should be excluded because I sought help because it won’t help potential killers either. It will also just stigmatise those who wouldn’t hurt anyone but themselves.
 
Last edited:
Although dated, I think this is a good starting point for those wanting to study this issue as it relates to guns and mental health. Yes, it was disturbing to see mental health services and institutions close or cut back, but drugs and outpatient treatment has replaced some of that. Otherwise, illegal gun sales continue and unlicensed gun dealers are out there also.

 
Last edited:
What type of mental illness should we be talking about? I know plenty of people with mental health issues. I have minor depression and anxiety mysel. Am I at risk of shooting people. A friend of my wives is bipolar. Is she at risk of shooting a bunch of people?

Blaming mental illness is not only pointless but will lead to more stigmatization of people that suffer from it. Most people with mental illness don’t commit mass shootings so I’m not sure I see any connection at all.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top