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minkymurph
Guest
One of my lectureres recently told me that according to the Declaration of Human Rights, men are now a ‘vulnerable group.’
How come when I bat my eyelashes I get totally ignored! My car broke down one evening in rush hour traffic. I was trying to push it off the road and not only would no one help me, other drivers swerved around me and wouldn’t let me push it onto the hard shoulder!
However, one kind man did stop and not only did he and his son help me push my car off the road, he gave me a lift home.
He said he didn’t mean to be sexist, but he couldn’t believe not only would men stand back and watch a woman push her car, but they wouldn’t even stop to let me get it off the road.Maybe no one helps because despite being quite small, I’m an ex power-lifting champion and I played rugby. Gave that up when I got pregnant.
The kind of man I love, is one who lets you push your car because he knows you don’t need him to help you, but gets his shoulder behind it when you struggle. the kind of woman I want to be, is one who knows when she needs a man’s help, and know’s when she doesn’t.I am very academic. My husband is an engineer. I think, he does. I reflect, he is practical. We need each other. Yes, we sometimes fight the bit out, but deep down, he knows he needs me, I know I need him, and our need both of us, faults and all. That is the true nature of relationships.
By the way, did I mention he’s ‘the boss’ and he has my permission to say so?
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Holly3278
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mpartyka
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I’m surprised this quote isn’t used more often:
I presume most Catholics would find this a powerfully compelling argument against women in the priesthood. (Either that, or they’d start a campaign to have Mary declared “Co-High Priestess”.)
–Mike
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Desertsailor
Guest
I think Satan chose to tempt eve because he was afraid of Adam. Adam looked like Jesus and Satan was afraid.
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jmacmilan
Guest
But developing your personality in multidimensional is also one characteristic of someone so we can not interfere in what some body want to be.
Macmilan.
Macmilan.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Not sure what you mean, but a person cannot ‘become’ something that he (or she) is not capable of becoming.
A man cannot birth a baby.
A woman cannot be a priest.
God alone is omnipotent and can ‘be all that He can.’ We humans are not capable of ‘being’ what we CANNOT be.
Priesthood isn’t about developing ‘multidimensions’ of personality. It is a sacred vocation and the ‘valid matter’ regarding it is not something that the Church has the authority to change.
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minkymurph
Guest
I don’t think this is quite the same thing. A man cannot physically birth a baby as he does not have a womb. However, he can be a parent in every sense a woman can. Many lone fathers have very successfully raised children.
One of the arguements presented here is the Church does not have the authority to ordain women as Jesus chose only men. While I agree with this, it does not solve the problem of why he chose only men.
I would like to say that at the turn of the last century, women could not vote because they were deemed too emotional to be able to cope with the responsibility. They had frontal lobotomy’s forceably performed on them because they suffered from post-natal depression, and could not enter university as it was believed if they devoted too much brain power to study, their wombs would shrivel and they would be unable to have children.
I don’t think anyone would accept these arguements now. Neither would anyone accept women can’t be priests cos God says so, if you know what I mean. The ‘different roles’ arguement isn’t a satisfactory answer either.
Therefore, the question remains, why did Jesus choose only men?
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jmcrae
Guest
And again it goes back to Adam being the one who made the final break with God, and that it is the man’s responsibility to make it right. Jesus died on the Cross for the whole human race, AS the Second Adam.
Those who offer up His sacrifice at Mass, then, need to be “types” of Adam - that is, they have to be male, in order to re-present the Sacrifice at Calvary.
Women are simply not able to do this, because women are not “types” of Adam. We are “types” of Eve - the Mother of all who live.
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mpartyka
Guest
By “anyone” are you talking about Christians or non-Christians? I wouldn’t expect non-Christians to care what God says (or at least about what God says through the Bible and/or through the Church). As for Christians, it utterly stymies me that any Christian would have a problem with, “God says so” – and He has said so, through both the Bible and the Church. The argument I would more likely expect to hear from a Christian is something like, “God hasn’t said so,” in spite of all the arguments from the Bible, the Fathers, and Church history. But I wouldn’t expect a Christian to say, “God says so, but He didn’t say why, so we should just ignore Him.”
–Mike
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adrift
Guest
Matthew 19:12
I would say that this show that Paul was in sync with Jesus
What does this have to do with women being priestesses?
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minkymurph
Guest
To explain what I meant -
As a mother and a student teacher, I have sometimes been guilty of saying, ‘because I say so’ when I have ran out of patience, explainations because the ‘why’ word is inexhaustible, or because it is not the time to question what I am asking them to do.
By ‘anyone’ I do include Christians and I will give you my reasons. I don’t believe God expects us to do as he says simply because ‘He says so.’ Sometimes it is necessary to say to a young child, ‘because I say so.’ As a child matures, this is no longer satisfactory and we must give reasons why ‘we say so.’ ‘God says so’ is something you would say to a young child. As a child grows in faith, they expect better answers.
God does not treat his children with any less dignity. He gave us an intelligent mind and a soul that can love in the divine sense. If we do not probe into the reasons why ‘God says so,’ we will say children in matters of faith. Thinking deeply and probing into why what we believe intensifies our faith and increases our understanding of the deep things of God. This is what I would say Paul was talking about those had received the milk of the word and not pressed on to maturity. I would say many here could offer an infinite number of reasons why we should not commit adultery or murder other than ‘because God says so;’ perhaps because it is easier to state reasons why we should not commit adultery or murder other than ‘God says so.’
I would like to state again that I don’t believe women can be priests and I have given my reasons in a previous post. That is what I meant when I said, ‘God says so’ is not something anyone would accept.
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JimG
Guest
A man can be a single parent, as can a woman. But a man is not a mother, nor is a woman a father.
My niece, who was raised by her mom after her father died, used to give her mom Father’s Day cards, as well as Mother’s Day cards, because she acted as both a mom and a dad to her. But by nature, she was a mom, not a dad.
A man cannot give birth, nor can he be a mother. (Though he can try to fulfill both functions if necessary.) A woman can give birth, and can be a mom, but not a dad, though she can try to fulfill both functions if necessary.
A priest’s primary function, which is imprinted by ordination, is to act “in the person of Christ.” Christ in his humanity is male. A woman cannot act in the person of Christ. Had Christ chosen to become incarnate as a woman, the situation would be reversed.
My niece, who was raised by her mom after her father died, used to give her mom Father’s Day cards, as well as Mother’s Day cards, because she acted as both a mom and a dad to her. But by nature, she was a mom, not a dad.
A man cannot give birth, nor can he be a mother. (Though he can try to fulfill both functions if necessary.) A woman can give birth, and can be a mom, but not a dad, though she can try to fulfill both functions if necessary.
A priest’s primary function, which is imprinted by ordination, is to act “in the person of Christ.” Christ in his humanity is male. A woman cannot act in the person of Christ. Had Christ chosen to become incarnate as a woman, the situation would be reversed.
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minkymurph
Guest
I agree with you. The maleness of Christ is very important and the person who acts in person of Christ must be male. However, distorted teachings concerning the maleness of Christ have developed as a consequence of misunderstanding why Christ was male. I don’t profess to fully understand it myself, and this is why I opened a discussion on the topic and in a previous post, and listed certain perceptions of women that today would not be accepted, to challange these distorted teachings.
Distorted teachings I have heard include:
Women would not be able to handle being priests because they’re not emotionally strong enough.
Women are not equal to men in the sight of God.
Distorted interpretations of the Pauline letters.
Jesus became male because the man is the head of the woman.
Greater understanding of the necessity of the maleness of Christ and those who act in is person brings us to a deeper understanding of the Incarnation and restores the dignity of women which these distorted teachings damaged.
My theory, and I stress it is a theory, it had something to do with original sin and if anyone has any insight in relation to Paul’s explaination of this and his statement that women are ‘saved through childbearing,’ please post as I am very interested in this
topic. thumbsup:
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minkymurph
Guest
Just want to add another distorted teaching:
Sin passed to future generations from Adam, not Eve, because the man is the head of the woman. If Eve had sinned and Adam had not sinned, God would have replaced her and given Adam another mate.
Sin passed to future generations from Adam, not Eve, because the man is the head of the woman. If Eve had sinned and Adam had not sinned, God would have replaced her and given Adam another mate.
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JimG
Guest
Well, I certainly have to agree with you on the above distorted teachings. Women and men are certainly of equal worth in the eyes of God. They are also complementary, and that is often a sticking point in the current culture, which often seems to take the view that things which are complementary must therefore not be equal!
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Love_Divine
Guest
Policing is a traditionally male dominated profession; however, since women have been allowed to join the profession, it was found that female police officers were better at mediating conflicts and had lower levels of physical altercations with their clients. The reason behind this? Women are better than men at communicating, and don’t have the male ego that causes them to get into as many physical altercations.
justicewomen.com/police_women.html
I’m not a feminist, and I don’t think women should be priests. It just doesn’t look right. It looks funny and off.
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jmcrae
Guest
No. Rather, Adam would have made the necessary priestly sacrifice to atone for Eve’s sin, and both of them would have been saved from the consequences of her sin. Eve was no more replaceable than Adam was.
Jesus, as Second Adam, made the sacrifice that was Adam’s to make.
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curlycool89
Guest
Yep. I would think that if the Church could ordain women to the priesthood, She would. Like people will talk about it causing “more vocations” and stuff, but no reason can overcome the fact that women simply cannot be priests. You just can’t talk your way around a fact.
It’s like when someone looses their wallet. No matter how much they swear that it’s “on the counter” and no matter how much they believe that they left it on the counter and no matter how well they can convince someone else they did, the wallet still won’t be on the counter. It’s just a physical fact, the wallet is not on the counter. It’s just a simple fact, women cannot be priests, and no matter how many reasons or excuses you can come up with it will never overcome the fact that it can’t happen.
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minkymurph
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Ooooh! That’s a good answer! I would not have come up with that one.
I just thought of another distorted teaching concerning the Church. Women cannot teach in the Church because the head of a woman is a man. Therefore, women cannot teach men.
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