Why aren't women allowed to be priests?

[jmcrae]

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Once you understand what the Church teaches, you obey it.

Internet forums, and opinions, do not count as the type of study, and discipline, necessary to study truths revealed by the Church.

Completeness is like saying: I know I need to stop at the traffic signal but I need to study the law further to more fully understand the thinking behind it. Obey first. Be obedient. When the Holy Father makes a definitive statement that applies to all the faithful, we are to obey.

God bless,
Ed

Nobody in this thread is saying that it’s okay to disobey any teaching of the Church that you don’t yet understand. That would be crazy. But while we are obeying, as you say, we can continue to study and become informed about what we are doing, and why.

 

[edwest2]

There is no doubt women priests seems to be a popular topic on the forums at the minute.

We have a saying in my part of the world, ‘the crying child gets his mother’s breast.’ There is no doubt, there are people who believe if they cry long enough and hard enough they will get what they want. The problem is, they very often do because no one can listen to their whining anymore.

I had a boss who always complained loudly in restaurants, whether he had something to complain about or not, in order to get something for free and add to his sense of self importance. Trouble is, he always got something for free. I heard recently he was awarded the MBE. Bet he whined for that too.

I wouldn’t use the word popular. It is popular with a few small groups only. One group simply wants to defy the Church. Defying the Church should never be listed in the popular category.

God bless,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

Nobody in this thread is saying that it’s okay to disobey any teaching of the Church that you don’t yet understand. That would be crazy. But while we are obeying, as you say, we can continue to study and become informed about what we are doing, and why.

Then why am I not seeing articles linked here by priests or Bishops? Internet discussions are not the same as getting an explanation from a Church authority.

God bless,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

Ah. I see now where your misunderstanding in this thread lies.

We are not saying that infallible teachings may be disobeyed. On the contrary, actually, Ed. On the contrary.

I have no misunderstanding.

God bless,
Ed

 

[PRmerger]

I have no misunderstanding.

God bless,
Ed

Fine. What Catholic here is stating that it’s okay to disobey an infallible teaching?

 

[PRmerger]

Then why am I not seeing articles linked here by priests or Bishops? Internet discussions are not the same as getting an explanation from a Church authority.

God bless,
Ed

We are discussing among ourselves and providing apologia to those who are trying to wrap their minds around the Church’s teachings.

Indeed, this is something we are commanded to do by St. Peter: always be ready to provide a reason for the hope that is within you.

These discussions are the “reason” we’re providing.

 

[minkymurph]

Then why am I not seeing articles linked here by priests or Bishops? Internet discussions are not the same as getting an explanation from a Church authority.

God bless,
Ed

I referred to christifideles laici in one of my posts.

You say we should obey the Church. How does one obey the teaching of the Incarntion and the Immacualte Conception? They are infallible and they are two of the teachings I mentioned.

Internet forums are very often bad places to explanations of Church teachings. There are many conflicting opinions out there and in addition, you don’t know who you are really talking to. For all you know, someone could claim to be a professor of theology, but actually be an atheist who wants to confuse people to make them doubt. I really do have a suspicious mind!

You say once one understands Church teachings, one obeys. How, in your opinion, does one come to an understanding?

 

[edwest2]

First of all, I don’t believe in opinions regarding this topic. Pope John Paul II was quite clear. I don’t see how any additional understanding can be extracted from what he wrote. The Church has no authority to do this. I posted a link to what he wrote earlier.

I am concerned about this topic because it has become customary for some to look for a “deeper understanding” when no such search is necessary. A plain reading of the text is completely clear and unambiguous.

God bless,
Ed

 

[dnar]

You say this based on…what?

Well, I say I would vote it to be placed on the banned topics list because the topic has been talked about ad nauseam.

I say that they will never have women priests in the Roman Catholic Church based on Scripture, Oral/Written Tradition of the Apostles, and the Infallible teaching of the Magisterium. The Church does not care what some liberal hippy lay people want changed, they have to stick with the truth.

John Paul II stated the Church did not have the authority to ordain women…DONE. Move along now…

1. Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church’s judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.

Invoking an abundance of divine assistance upon you, venerable brothers, and upon all the faithful, I impart my apostolic blessing.

From the Vatican, on May 22, the Solemnity of Pentecost, in the year 1994, the sixteenth of my Pontificate.

John Paul II

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html

 

[diggerdomer]

If not choosing your enemies as your Apostles is a ‘cultural’ or ‘historical’ consideration, may as well say He deliberately didn’t choose Pharisees or members of the Sanhedrin as well - they too were His enemies.tremely egalitarian in His treatment of women, much more so than was the norm at the time.

You’re not suggesting women are enemies are you? I don’t think so, but just want to make sure. Thanks for any clarification.

And, by the way, we don’t know, really, if any of the 12 Apostles Christ chose were Pharisees…it’s presumed they were not, of course, but it’s nowhere denied by the New Testament. And of course St. Paul…an Apostle…was a Pharisee.

 

[diggerdomer]

The question is, as it relates to the ordination of women, why do you care so strongly about whether a teaching has met the criteria for infallibility?

Because the teaching of infallibility is important to the Church. As both Vatican Councils taught.

 

[diggerdomer]

What I’m saying is directly on topic: The Church has no authority to ordain women. This is definitive.

God bless,
Ed

Definitive, yes.

Infallibly taught, no.

Good point.

 

[diggerdomer]

I vote to put this topic on the banned topics list…I’m sick of seeing it every other day. Fact of the matter is this, there will never be women priests in the Roman Catholic Church. Geez.

I assume that’s your personal opinion? Not an infallibly taught doctrine of the Catholic Church? Thanks for any clarification.

 

[diggerdomer]

Precisely stated; because only men that are pastors are suppose to preach behind the pulpit;

Can you explain what you mean by this? It makes no sense to me, as a Catholic. There are plenty of people (ministers) that are allowed by the Catholic Church to preach even though they are not pastors. Thanks.

 

[diggerdomer]

Fine. What Catholic here is stating that it’s okay to disobey an infallible teaching?

What infallible teaching are you referring to?

 

[Vince1022]

I say that they will never have women priests in the Roman Catholic Church based on Scripture, Oral/Written Tradition of the Apostles, and the Infallible teaching of the Magisterium. The Church does not care what some liberal hippy lay people want changed, they have to stick with the truth.

Where does Scripture prohibit women priests? I’m curious because Catholic scholars, as recognized by the Vatican have demonstrated that there is nothing in Scripture itself that prohibits ordaining women. Thanks for any Scriptural references that are part of Catholic Church teaching on this issue! I look forward to it.

John Paul II stated the Church did not have the authority to ordain women…DONE. Move along now…

Of course. But not taught infallibly.

 

[minkymurph]

First of all, I don’t believe in opinions regarding this topic. Pope John Paul II was quite clear. I don’t see how any additional understanding can be extracted from what he wrote. The Church has no authority to do this. I posted a link to what he wrote earlier.

I am concerned about this topic because it has become customary for some to look for a “deeper understanding” when no such search is necessary. A plain reading of the text is completely clear and unambiguous.

God bless,
Ed

A plain reading of a text still needs explanation and interpretation. All the interpretations of the Bible that are circulating are evidence of that; and I believe certain plain, literal readings of the Bible are contrary to Catholic teaching.

 

[PRmerger]

First of all, I don’t believe in opinions regarding this topic.

LOL! Isn’t that an opinion?

I am concerned about this topic because it has become customary for some to look for a “deeper understanding” when no such search is necessary.

This is absolutely incorrect. Further study on anything the Church teaches is always welcomed and encouraged.

It’s called * Fides Quaerens Intellectum*

 

[clmowry]

Yeah, but he didn’t say “infallible” so it doesn’t really mean what it says…

Just kidding…

Chuck

Well, I say I would vote it to be placed on the banned topics list because the topic has been talked about ad nauseam.

I say that they will never have women priests in the Roman Catholic Church based on Scripture, Oral/Written Tradition of the Apostles, and the Infallible teaching of the Magisterium. The Church does not care what some liberal hippy lay people want changed, they have to stick with the truth.

John Paul II stated the Church did not have the authority to ordain women…DONE. Move along now…

1. Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church’s judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.

Invoking an abundance of divine assistance upon you, venerable brothers, and upon all the faithful, I impart my apostolic blessing.

From the Vatican, on May 22, the Solemnity of Pentecost, in the year 1994, the sixteenth of my Pontificate.

John Paul II

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html

 

[PRmerger]

Because the teaching of infallibility is important to the Church. As both Vatican Councils taught.

Indeed.

And what about teachings that have been definitively defined? Are not those “important to the Church” as well?

See, I just don’t get why it matters whether the teaching on the ordination of women has been defined “infallibly”. It has been defined “definitively”, correct?

Again, it’s like your children saying to you, “You said I had to be home at midnight–and you made that quite clear-- but you didn’t have it written down on the note with the other instructions you gave me…so do I still have to be home at midnight?” :banghead: