Why be Catholic?

[Ben_Bet_Beh]

Thanks to everyone for the kind responses. I’d like to focus on the need for a visible authoritative church and why that truly matters today. Yes, it mattered at times in history - such as when the canon of Scripture was discerned. Yet, can you admit that many come to know Christ outside the visible Church in a way that would not be possible had there been only the Catholic Church in existence? What I am pondering is perhaps God allowed the divisions to occur - and perhaps more important to my point - desires these other forms of Christianity to exist so as to bring more people to know Jesus Christ which would not be possible through the organization of the visible Catholic Church?

 

[Little_One0307]

Thanks to everyone for the kind responses. I’d like to focus on the need for a visible authoritative church and why that truly matters today. Yes, it mattered at times in history - such as when the canon of Scripture was discerned. Yet, can you admit that many come to know Christ outside the visible Church in a way that would not be possible had there been only the Catholic Church in existence? What I am pondering is perhaps God allowed the divisions to occur - and perhaps more important to my point - desires these other forms of Christianity to exist so as to bring more people to know Jesus Christ which would not be possible through the organization of the visible Catholic Church?

God permitted the divisions to occurs because of free will. Jesus prayed shortly before He died that All that believed in Him would be one.

I cannot admit that many came to know Christ outside the visible Church in a way that would not be possible had there been only the Catholic Church in existence. The other ecclesial communities got the bible and much of their philosophy from the Catholic Church. Had the Church not existed, I am not sure what would have happened, but this is a moot point, becuase Jesus founded His Church on St. Peter, the First Pope.

He desires the Unity of all believers. And He wishes for all believers to be where in the Church where The Fullness of Truth and the Means of Salvations exist, namely the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Faith.

I would reccomend you reading the Catholic Catechism of the Catholic Church on the part in Part I where it talks about, We believe in One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

Paragraphs 748-933. I know it is a lot, but it explains much.

God bless.

 

[Julian0404]

Actually there are some very concrete and huge difference created by GOD HIMSELF. In order to allow HIS people to know HIS church HE gave it four signs, which are ONE - HOLY - CATHOLIC - APOSTOLIC. Get a copy of the Catechism and read about them

I could be a member of another Christian denomination and say the same thing. There are good and bad members in other Christian denominations. This helps me retain a Christian faith (and even allows invincible ignorance to well-meaning atheists), but doesn’t say “hey, that’s the lightbulb that says Catholicism is the clear choice” either.

I really don’t like this analogy. I don’t believe I should be Catholic based on the heroism of Catholic saints as great as that may appear. Using that logic,I may as well become Hindu because of the heroic virtue that Ghandi displayed.

I find beauty in the teachings of the Church. I do not deny this. Yet, this is part of my struggle. How do I know that there isn’t beauty in other religions teachings? How can I reasonably judge this based on my ingrained Catholic teachings all these years?

No, actually you could “never” repeat the above about any other Christian denomination that is not Catholic. “Apostolic” means you have a direct traceable linage from the Bishops of the Catholic Church straight back to the original Apostles appointed by JESUS.

And I never mentioned “heroic saints” as the reason to be Catholic, but now that you bring them up, they do provide outstanding examples of how to live our lives.

There is beauty in many part of many religions including Islam. However when taken in the whole, the Catholic Church is the One True Church as formed by JESUS. This is also traceable back to JESUS. So, the question you are truly wrestling with is “is JESUS the SON of GOD?” is “JESUS GOD?”

I would suggest you read “The Case for Christ”, a book easily available written by an investigative reporter to disprove the case that JESUS is the CHRIST.

 

[Ben_Bet_Beh]

…So, the question you are truly wrestling with is “is JESUS the SON of GOD?” is “JESUS GOD?”…

You might be right. IF Christianity is true, it’s the Catholic Church that holds that truth. Protestantism and those that claim a Restorationist mindset are sorely lacking in my opinion.

Let me throw this out to the forum community and I would like (name removed by moderator)ut from others:

Could someone explain how we can trust the Gospels to be an accurate portrayal of the life of Christ when they were written down decades after the fact? I think of how often written accounts of current events get facts wrong, let alone getting it right several decades later.

 

[Bookcat]

Could someone explain how we can trust the Gospels to be an accurate portrayal of the life of Christ when they were written down decades after the fact? I think of how often written accounts of current events get facts wrong, let alone getting it right several decades later.

If you search the Catholic Answers main site…you will find a radio program called something like “can we trust the Gospels”

 

[promethius]

I am a middle aged man and have been born and raised in a faithful Catholic family. I also have been faithful to what the Catholic Church believes and teaches to the best of my ability over the years. I have also studied what the Catholic Church believes and teaches and in theory I agree with everything that it teaches.

However, there is also an element of the Catholic Church that is quite troubling to me. Although the teachings appear sound to me, how the Catholic Church applies those teachings have been suspect. It is causing a sort of crisis of faith for me. Normally the best advice to be given would be to consult a parish priest or something to that effect. However, as a layperson, I am looking for a layperson’s perspective on how to reconcile the Church with it’s faulty members.

Layperson’s perspective:

1. You put your pants on one leg at a time as well.
2. You’re not morally perfect either
3. You could be more charitable as well.
4. You could be more forgiving too.
5. You probably have no place to judge others simply because you PERCEIVE yourself to be a better catholic than them.
6. As much as you judge how “good” of catholics they are simply because you think they’re morally at a different level than you, you’re the one who’s questioning the veracity of the church because of your personal judgement issues. That, in my opinion, makes you the catholic who needs more help.
7. The church has its champions of the faith. It also has people who are just starting out on the moral path of growth. What you are saying is like walking into a hospital and crying out “I can’t be treated here, there are INJURED PEOPLE all around!” It makes no sense.
8. God administers grace and growth. You can try to help by reaching out to others or even organizing opportunities for charity, but to supplant God’s role by rebuking others beyond your authority is dangerous and sinful. You can actually set people BACKWARDS in terms of their faith and moral development.

The Bible mentions something to the effect of ‘by their fruits you shall know them’. In my own life, having interacted with persons at my local parish and other parishes I have been associated with,*** there is an element of superiority by some***, whiners by others, and downright deceptiveness by a few as well.

People are sinners. I’ve highlighted the part of that statement that I think you should pay particular attention to…

With all this in mind, it has gotten me thinking as to how important it is for me to be a Catholic when the Catholic Church itself says that one does not need to be Catholic to be saved? Yes, the Church teaches that it is through the Church that non-Catholics can be saved. However, I wish the fruits of practicing Catholics would be clearer for me to discern if I am indeed in the true Church. (My side note: If you’re dissatisfied with the fruits of practicing catholics, make more fruits! And foster others to grow in charity as well!)

Could you all help me with some evidence that supports that the Catholic Church is far and away not only the best option for my salvation, but THE option for my salvation?

You are absolutely incorrect in thinking that one does not need to be catholic to be saved. Let me clarify: ONLY catholics will be saved, but by INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE some people are not members of the VISIBLE CHURCH, though they are catholic all the same in the eyes of God.

HERE is an article on the difference between invincible and vincible ignorance. Given the plethora of resources at the hands of a catholic with internet access today, do you really think that you’ll fall into the invincible ignorance category? That’s a serious question to weigh before you think you’re safe to jump out of the church.

I’ll leave you with a note on this subject from Hebrews 6:
**4 ****For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift 2 and shared in the holy Spirit ****5 ****and tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 3 ****6 ****and then have fallen away, to bring them to repentance again, since they are recrucifying the Son of God for themselves 4 and holding him up to contempt. **

Sounds like St Paul was pretty serious about the level of sin becoming an apostate entails…

 

[promethius]

Yet, can you admit that many come to know Christ outside the visible Church in a way that would not be possible had there been only the Catholic Church in existence? What I am pondering is perhaps God allowed the divisions to occur - and perhaps more important to my point - desires these other forms of Christianity to exist so as to bring more people to know Jesus Christ which would not be possible through the organization of the visible Catholic Church?

The question is would most of these people have come to know Christ anyway, without these divisions? The answer, in my opinion is yes.

However, how many atheists, buddhists, hindus, muslims, jews, etc, have REJECTED the church based on the doctrinal confusion created by protestantism? How much violence and destruction of charity has been done by the advent of these divisions?

Jesus wasn’t kidding when He said that a house divided cannot stand. The sins of the “reformers” (read: destroyers of Christian unity) dealt a greivous wound to evangelism which is still growing and festering today.

 

[jochoa]

You have excellent questions my friend, I hope I may be of assistance, rather than hindrance.

Since you desire to understand The Gospels, The Bible, The Life of Christ, and The Universal Christian Church, I encourage focusing on two areas: discernment and optimism.

1. Instead of attempting to discern the quality of action others perform, discern the quality of Jesus’ Actions. Christianity’s greatest commandment is To Love God as Jesus did.
   Therefore, if you accept that patience generates the greatest peace, kindness generates the greatest happiness, and motivated by God generates the greatest energy, then work on minimizing pessimism and maximizing optimism.
2. Although attempting to understand God and His Methods yields amazing control and empowerment through God, it also requires incredible amounts of optimism. Which is not only why most believers are pleased to believe on faith alone, but also why most non-believers lose faith (the ease of focusing on only one aspect of God to discredit His Entire Essence).

I’d like to focus on the need for a visible authoritative church and why that truly matters today.

The following is one out of several justifications:
Respecting authority through obedience and honor is a huge aspect to always being patient and kind.
This concept is applied in the household, in all Churches of Christianity, in business, in government, in societies, and in education.
Since the greatest peace and happiness of any institution cannot be achieved through disrespecting authority through disobedience and dishonor, God’s Church employs it for development and livelihood.

 

[Ben_Bet_Beh]

…5) You probably have no place to judge others simply because you PERCEIVE yourself to be a better catholic than them…

This appears to be the primary theme from your post. I strive to judge others actions rather than the persons in question. Perhaps the ‘superiority’ of some that I see perhaps is me looking at myself in the mirror. This is quite possible. How does one properly discern the Scripture that says ‘judge not lest ye be judged’ and the Scripture that says ‘if your brother sins against you, correct him’?

promethius:

Jesus wasn’t kidding when He said that a house divided cannot stand. The sins of the “reformers” (read: destroyers of Christian unity) dealt a greivous wound to evangelism which is still growing and festering today.

I have come to this same conclusion regarding the effects of the Protestant Reformation. With that said, what of the internal divisions of the Catholic Church? Could you differentiate the problems we have as a church internally which also causes disunity of the faithful?

 

[Ben_Bet_Beh]

1. Although attempting to understand God and His Methods yields amazing control and empowerment through God, it also requires incredible amounts of optimism.

I have generally been a very optomistic person throughout my life. There are roadblocks being built upon me though that are chipping away at my optomism ever so slowly and methodically. I’m trying to let go of things and allow God to work through me as He sees fit. Perhaps I’m not as patient as I once thought I was. It’s been difficult and the road has not been getting any easier nor am I optomistic that it will get any easier in the forseable future. I hope I’m wrong, but if I am right, I need to find a way to persevere.

 

[Cordelil]

I was once married to a catholic woman. She had many relatives who were also catholic. What I noticed was that they were culturally catholic and not much religiously so.

The people on this site are serious about their catholicism. Most in the pews I would hazard to guess couldn’t mount a defense for their faith if pressed to do so. As stated in “Revelation” their faith is lukewarm (I’m being generous).

At a minimum seeing such indifference to faith would lead many to question the wisdom of joining such a church.

Sure, reading a bunch of documents is inspiring. Unfortunately, many catholic churches, especially the large ones in urban areas, are far from being uplifting.

 

[Ter1]

This has gotten me questioning how throughly I have investigated my own faith. Perhaps being a cradle Catholic has been a bit of a disadvantage for me. Perhaps I have instinctively given my own church’s teachings the ‘benefit of the doubt’ and haven’t seriously considered that my personal biases haven’t allowed me to consider that the Catholic Church could be wrong about doctrine {fill in the blank}.

I hope I’ll be able to give you some helpful advice. From the time I was about 10 years old each of my older brothers, as they progressed through their teens, left the Church and presented the usual challenges, similar to some of yours. I was aware that answers existed because I had read the life of Saint John Bosco, who spent a lot of time responding to such challenges. I didn’t know the responses and had to wait until I finished college and had a credit card (to buy books on the internet) to get the answers. But I did do the research then. Briefly, I would recomment you read:
Theology and Sanity, by Frank Sheed
Go to Heaven, by Fulton Sheen
Catholicism and Fundamentalism, by Karl Keating
And various conversion stories, which shows why others are convinced that the Church is true. I read a lot more, but that is a good beginning.

For me, always, the clincher is the Mass - I will not and can not stop receiving the Body of Christ. Basically, if you recognise the Eucharist the Church is your only option.

 

[clmowry]

‘by their fruits you shall know them’.

Take any group of people and you will find plenty of good and plenty of bad to go around.

Given the size, longevity and record keeping of the Catholic Church I would suspect you can find more examples of Good and Bad within this organization than any other that has ever been on the Earth.

Take a group of a billion or so people (many billions I would imagine over the last 2,000 or so years) and you’ll be able to find all the evil you need to justify disbelief in the organization.

This is, I believe, however a logical error.

Though I suppose you could sum up all the good and bad and use it as some sort of measure of the effectiveness of an organization in performing its mission in the midst of a sinful world, I don’t think this kind of measure validates or invalidates the organization and its mission.

I would submit that the “fruits” of the Church are the actions of those who are actually following its teachings, not simply sum of the actions of all those who profess membership in the organization.

So if you want to assess the validity of the Church, you should focus on assessing the validity of what the Church teaches.

Chuck

 

[asd72]

Thanks to everyone for the kind responses. I’d like to focus on the need for a visible authoritative church and why that truly matters today. Yes, it mattered at times in history - such as when the canon of Scripture was discerned. Yet, can you admit that many come to know Christ outside the visible Church in a way that would not be possible had there been only the Catholic Church in existence? What I am pondering is perhaps God allowed the divisions to occur - and perhaps more important to my point - desires these other forms of Christianity to exist so as to bring more people to know Jesus Christ which would not be possible through the organization of the visible Catholic Church?

Read John 17 Ben. I think Jesus is clear that he desires unity.

 

[jochoa]

I have generally been a very optomistic person throughout my life. There are roadblocks being built upon me though that are chipping away at my optomism ever so slowly and methodically. I’m trying to let go of things and allow God to work through me as He sees fit. Perhaps I’m not as patient as I once thought I was. It’s been difficult and the road has not been getting any easier nor am I optomistic that it will get any easier in the forseable future. I hope I’m wrong, but if I am right, I need to find a way to persevere.

Thank you very much for your consideration and response. I am sorry for your troubles, and I hope you find greater peace sooner than later. I leave you with this final thought: When life is putting you through the ringer, Watch “The Passion of the Christ,” Study It, and Live and Love It in Mass. Through Jesus you will find the greatest peace, happiness, and longevity!

 

[Ben_Bet_Beh]

…For me, always, the clincher is the Mass - I will not and can not stop receiving the Body of Christ. Basically, if you recognise the Eucharist the Church is your only option.

I love the Mass. I recognize the Eucharist on an intelectual level. From what I have studied, the Eucharist is Jesus. The Host is more than a symbol and Christian teachings from the beginning support this view. Sometimes I desire a Eucharistic otherworldly experience to fulfill me - yet it has not happened and I accept that. But still, it would be a nice gift if God is willing to grant it.

 

[Ben_Bet_Beh]

I would submit that the “fruits” of the Church are the actions of those who are actually following its teachings, not simply sum of the actions of all those who profess membership in the organization.

Hmmm. This seems to be a simple solution, but in practice it is not. I think of the parable of the Good Samaritan in what I am thinking. I see some ‘Good Catholics’ following the teachings to the letter and then miss the bigger picture. Perhaps I have been this way myself.

 

[Ben_Bet_Beh]

Read John 17 Ben. I think Jesus is clear that he desires unity.

Thank you for this! I just got through reading it and what I got out of this moreso than anything is that Jesus is praying for me right now! And yes, He desires that we are one. What an awesome prayer!

 

[Ter1]

Sometimes I desire a Eucharistic otherworldly experience to fulfill me - yet it has not happened and I accept that. But still, it would be a nice gift if God is willing to grant it.

That’s never happened to me either, but I do have an inner ‘knowing’ that this is true; that is on a deeper level than my study of it. I suspect that is the fruits of trying to follow my mother’s advice (just before I started college) “If you don’t want to lose your faith at college you need to go to daily Mass”.

 

[Cyclophile]

I love the Mass. I recognize the Eucharist on an intelectual level. From what I have studied, the Eucharist is Jesus. The Host is more than a symbol and Christian teachings from the beginning support this view. Sometimes I desire a Eucharistic otherworldly experience to fulfill me - yet it has not happened and I accept that. But still, it would be a nice gift if God is willing to grant it.

Give it time