M
Montalban
Guest
However one *might *be able to judge that from things such as the state of the Mass, etc.
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M
Montalban
Guest
A statement that is true only if you don’t include the Immaculate Conception, the Papacy, the filioque, Original Sin, and few other minor things
S
Subrosa
Guest
Hi Pausebreak -Do you believe as the Catechism proposes you believe?
I agree with everything I have read so far.
If so, then there is nothing that can stop you from finding a good parish
Yes their is its called gas money
I’m going to keep reading the Catechism and praying for God to show me the way.
I was thinking of also praying the Rosary but I’m not sure how anyone know of any books.
When I can I’m going to go to the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest Church and talk with the Priest.
Thanks everyone and I’m very sorry if I was rude to anyone.
Have you tried the Traditional Latin Mass? Have a look here…
youtube.com/results?search_query=latin+mass
and here…
members.cox.net/holynamechurch/latinmass.htm
You may find it to your liking. Without question it will address you concerns about the Mass being “Protestant.”
Blessings,
Subrosa
S
Subrosa
Guest
Hi again, Pausebreak -
There is one thing that you need to get straight in your head concerning the Mass. Jesus said, “Do this in memory of Me.”
He did not say you should agree with the way things are done, nor did He say that you should enjoy it. He did not said, “Do this in memory of Me, but only if you like the way it’s being handled.”
If you go to any Mass, you are obeying His instruction because what He was refering to is the Holy Eucharist, which is quite valid at any Mass, even the ones you disagree with or dislike.
Blessings,
Subrosa
There is one thing that you need to get straight in your head concerning the Mass. Jesus said, “Do this in memory of Me.”
He did not say you should agree with the way things are done, nor did He say that you should enjoy it. He did not said, “Do this in memory of Me, but only if you like the way it’s being handled.”
If you go to any Mass, you are obeying His instruction because what He was refering to is the Holy Eucharist, which is quite valid at any Mass, even the ones you disagree with or dislike.
Blessings,
Subrosa
P
PauseBreak
Guest
Have you tried the Traditional Latin Mass? Have a look here…
Yes the first Mass I ever went to was at the SSPX Chapel then when I found out they was in schism I did not go anymore and I went to a NO Mass boy was that a sad shock.
Yes the first Mass I ever went to was at the SSPX Chapel then when I found out they was in schism I did not go anymore and I went to a NO Mass boy was that a sad shock.
E
El_camino
Guest
PauseBreak, I am going to recommend a book to you:
shop.catholic.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/online-store/scstore/p-B0451.html?L+scstore+cbnl2337ffe4b4e4+1177585420
In it, Mike Aquilina compiled sources from the early church fathers and other early christian writtings about liturgy and how the first Christians worshipped when they got together on sunday.
You will find that the practices and liturgy of the early christians IS very very close to the Novus Ordo Mass, which takes place in the Roman/Latin rite TODAY.
Not to belittle or put down the Tridentine or Trentine mass, as I believe it is very beautiful and majestic (remembering of course that liturgy can change and it is not a matter of doctrine and anyone can choose what liturgy he likes and which he doesn’t), just as its name says, it was instituted after the Council of Trent in the 16th century. The Novus Ordo tried to bring back rather than innovate many parts of the liturgy that were not practiced.
Just to give you an example of what I am saying. DO you know who Alex Jones is? Well Alex Jones used to be a protestant pentecostal pastor who started researching in early christian writings the way the original Christians used to worship. He started looking at their liturgy in a very NEUTRAL way and started instituting those practices in his own congregation or church. Without realizing HIS worship services started to look tremendously like a Novus Ordo Catholic Mass. After a while, Alex Jones and most of his congregation (over 50 people) JOINED the Catholic Church at ONCE!!.
Reemphasizing, it was the NOVUS ORDO liturgy what Alex Jones, an impartial individual, found to be the closest to the original way the early christians worshipped.
You say that the NOVUS ORDO mass looks like a Lutheran/protestant services, that is not because the NOVUS ORDO wants to look like the lutheran service, but rather because the lutherans want also to worship in the way the original Christians used to (they also have access to those early writings you know).
Now, if you prefer, you are free to GO to a parish that has the tridentine liturgy, in fact you may also go to a parish that has a different rite, and therefore a different liturgy, such as the byzantine catholic rite, the maronite catholic rite, the chaldean catholic rite, etc. etc. In fact, Latin rite Catholics are encouraged to join those other rites to keep them alive.
I have been to a byzantine rite and to a maronite rite. Both liturgies are very different from the novus ordo, but at the same time are VERY beautiful!. If there was a byzantine or maronite parish, close to where I live I would join that parish.
Many blessings,
E.C.
E
El_camino
Guest
P
PauseBreak
Guest
You will find that the practices and liturgy of the early christians IS very very close to the Novus Ordo Mass, which takes place in the Roman/Latin rite TODAY.
Well I don’t think the Early Christians had rock guitars and drums and, I don’t think the Preist made lame jokes at Mass.
NO gives alot of freedom and thats a bad thing unlike the TLM. When I go to Mass I’m their for Christ not to talk about football or hand hold the Mass is not about us.
I think I will sick with the TLM because I know what I’m going to get every time.
Now if all NO Masses was like the EWTN then that would be ok but its not that way Infact people have to drive all over to find one like the EWTN Mass. (I still don’t get why the preist needs to face the people)
Every Mass should be done the right way in every Church do you think Saint Pope Pius X would let this nonsene keep going on?
I have read alot about Saint Pope Pius X man I have alot of love and Respect for him.
If anyone has some good books on the Rosary that would be a big help.
Well I don’t think the Early Christians had rock guitars and drums and, I don’t think the Preist made lame jokes at Mass.
NO gives alot of freedom and thats a bad thing unlike the TLM. When I go to Mass I’m their for Christ not to talk about football or hand hold the Mass is not about us.
I think I will sick with the TLM because I know what I’m going to get every time.
Now if all NO Masses was like the EWTN then that would be ok but its not that way Infact people have to drive all over to find one like the EWTN Mass. (I still don’t get why the preist needs to face the people)
Every Mass should be done the right way in every Church do you think Saint Pope Pius X would let this nonsene keep going on?
I have read alot about Saint Pope Pius X man I have alot of love and Respect for him.
If anyone has some good books on the Rosary that would be a big help.
E
El_camino
Guest
Probably not rock guitars, but they sure used musical instruments available at the time to sing psalms and other hymns.
How do you know? They took the mass as the sharing of a meal, that is why the Priest stands behind a table, because it represents a meal (just like Jesus and his apostles in the last supper). The Novus Ordo is very solemn when it needs to be and it is informal when it is allowed to be. Same with the sharing of the meal among the Early Christians.
Again, you are free to like or dislike one liturgy or the other. You are, as well free, to go to the Tridentine mass if you prefer and not go to the NO. All I am saying is that the MASS of the Early Christian is closer to the NO than to the Tridentine mass.
You are free to do so. There is nothing wrong about it. Again, the Liturgy is not a matter of doctrine, that is why it can vary. Within the Catholic church there are over 10 official different liturgies. Go to the one you like the most.
Because the idea of the NO is to be closer to what was done int he early church. That is how it was done in the Early Church. The priest or bishop is presiding the meal as he is in “persona christi” (i.e., representing christ), who in the last supper faced his apostles. Christ did not spent the last supper with his back turned to the apostles and neither did the priests and bishops in the early church.
I don’t see why you would call the liturgy celebrated by the early church non-sense, and regarding whether St. Pope Pius X would let this go on, the answer is YES.
The easter catholic rites (e.g., maronite, byzantine) have the same liturgy they had when St. Pius X was pope. In these rites, priests and bishops face forward, and St. Pius X did not make them change.
If all the magisterium of the Church decides to change the liturgy (as it happen in Vatican II), I really don’t think Pope Pius X would oppose, as Pope Paul VI,didn’t and as Pope Pius IV, who was reigning when the Council of Trent ended, didn’t either when the mass was change for the Tridentine mass.
Good for you!
Catholic.com book catalog have many good one:
shop.catholic.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/cgi-local/wwwwais.exe?U+scstore+cdrf7203ffdb52db+configure=/u/web/shop96/merchant/swish/scstore.wcf
Blessings,
E.C.
P
PauseBreak
Guest
I don’t see why you would call the liturgy celebrated by the early church non-sense, and regarding whether St. Pope Pius X would let this go on, the answer is YES.
So you think Saint Pope Pius X would be happy with biker Masses, Pizza Masses, Halloween Masses with the Preist dressed as Satan I don’t think so.
The Preist making jokes at Mass is out right disrespect to Christ in my view.
Thanks for the Links
So you think Saint Pope Pius X would be happy with biker Masses, Pizza Masses, Halloween Masses with the Preist dressed as Satan I don’t think so.
The Preist making jokes at Mass is out right disrespect to Christ in my view.
Thanks for the Links
J
JMJ_coder
Guest
Hello,
All of these things (your list and mine) were all explicitly taught and understood from the very beings of the Church. They were all part of Divine Revelation, but many took centuries to be fully understood (Jesus said the Holy Spirit would guide us to all truth, but didn’t say how long that would take). These teachings become clearly taught through a process called the development (or maturation) of doctrine.
Those few minor things include: Divinity of Christ, Divinity of the Holy Spirit, the Nicene Creed, the Two Natures of Christ, the Two Wills of Christ, the Real Presence, and a host of others.
All of these things (your list and mine) were all explicitly taught and understood from the very beings of the Church. They were all part of Divine Revelation, but many took centuries to be fully understood (Jesus said the Holy Spirit would guide us to all truth, but didn’t say how long that would take). These teachings become clearly taught through a process called the development (or maturation) of doctrine.
S
Subrosa
Guest
Hi PauseBreak -
The links I gave to you are valid Catholic Latin Masses. There are other links on the second one I gave you that will direct you to a Latin Mass in your area.
I myself have attended the Latin Mass on the second link. I attend this Mass on Holy Days, but attend the NO Mass regularly.
I am also a lector and Eucharistic Minister at the NO.
Blessings,
Subrosa
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