Why become Catholic?

[SnakeMauler]

This is a question which I must answer for a friend of mine. He comes from a predominately protestant family, and I believe that they are very inactive. My question is, what reasons should I give him to become Catholic and why Catholicism has more validity then Protestantism? He’s not stubborn and I know he’s very open and I’m sure if I give him the proper reasoning he’ll be willing to take RCIA. I appreciate any help anyone can give me, or if there’s already a thread with a list of reason or something, could I be directed to that as well?

Thanks,
Snakemauler

 

[cathguy]

Because it is true.

Because of the Eucharist, which is the Body of Christ.

Because of sacramental confession, which Christ instituted for the forgiveness of our sins.

Because we are the FAMILY of God, the Body of Christ

Because of the natural moral law.

Because its fun… and even when it isn’t, its joyful!

 

[Edwardjohn]

Because it is true.

Because of the Eucharist, which is the Body of Christ.

Because of sacramental confession, which Christ instituted for the forgiveness of our sins.

Because we are the FAMILY of God, the Body of Christ

Because of the natural moral law.

Because its fun… and even when it isn’t, its joyful!

That about sums it up.

 

[SnakeMauler]

That’d be enough for me

However, I feel as though I’d need some sort of historical background and things like proof of why Jesus is the founder of the Catholic church and such, and what sets it apart from Protestantism.

 

[cathguy]

That’d be enough for me

However, I feel as though I’d need some sort of historical background and things like proof of why Jesus is the founder of the Catholic church and such, and what sets it apart from Protestantism.

Depends on how big a reader your friend is.

If he is a reader, have him check out “Triumph” by Harry Crocker. Not the best book, but certainly a decent look at the history of the Catholic Church.

If he is scholarly and LOVES to read, have him check out the history of Christendom series by Warren Carrol.

How the Catholic Church built Western Civilization by Thomas Woods is good also.

The Early Church fathers are GREAT reading.

If he is more theological than historical I recommend

The Spirit of Early Christian Thought by Wilken down at UPENN. VERY solid look at the early Church and its doctrines.

Peace and God love you!

 

[Edwardjohn]

That’d be enough for me

However, I feel as though I’d need some sort of historical background and things like proof of why Jesus is the founder of the Catholic church and such, and what sets it apart from Protestantism.

If you ask a protestant who founded their church you’ll usually get the name of a man. If you ask a Catholic, you’ll get the Lord Jesus Christ. In addition, church history affirms the fact. Any Christian denomination that goes back far enough in church history realizes that the Catholic Church was the only church, and is the Church established by the Lord.

 

[Onegin]

That’d be enough for me

However, I feel as though I’d need some sort of historical background and things like proof of why Jesus is the founder of the Catholic church and such, and what sets it apart from Protestantism.

Have him read this book:

tanbooks.com/index.php/page/shop:flypage/product_id/537/

From the description:
*
“The book covers the nature of God, the nature of man, the meaning of life, the nature of religion, the sources of Faith, the necessity of prayer, the duty of belief, the consequences of sin, the Commandments of God, the Holy Trinity, belief in Christ, the Redemption, the supremacy of the Pope, the Mystical Body of Christ, the Sacraments, the Mass, the priesthood, devotion to Mary and the Saints, what happens after death, the devotional life of a Catholic.”*

Also, I think (don’t quote me on this) that Google Books has it online to read as well.

 

[SnakeMauler]

Assuming he knows almost nothing about Christianity, what are like the basic reasons of why he should look into becoming a Christian?

 

[grndslm]

Nice reading recommendations that I’ll need to check out! Thanks, guys!

I think I’m at a similar point where your friend(s) is/are. I’ve recently come to the revelation that the cause can never be proved, but the effect is the most compelling evidence of the cause.

I’ve also recently seem some “pattern” between Pope John Paul II & Pope Benedict XVI. The former seemed to be the pope targetting atheists/agnostics by teaching them to look at the effect of the Creator – creation. He creates something magnificent, called the Theology of the Body… where you SEE with your mind instead of LOOK with your eyes. The current Pope seems to be exactly what I need to get past the stage where I’m at now – Deism. Pope Benedict has written extensively on the effect of Jesus – the Apostles and the Early Church Fathers. Like I stated earlier, I believe that the effect of Jesus’ death [and possible Resurrection from a sealed tomb] is exactly what I need to research to determine whether or not I re-join the Catholic Church. And the Catholic Church claims that they have the history and tradition closest to what Jesus wanted from us…

So, I just need to find some Catholics with a deeper historical understanding of the Apostles and Early Church Fathers to persuade me of Jesus’ divinity. The man, Jesus, doesn’t seem too terribly hard to believe in. But if I could believe in the divinity of Jesus… I would more than likely be Catholic. Just seems logical to me.

 

[piltdown_man]

So, I just need to find some Catholics with a deeper historical understanding of the Apostles and Early Church Fathers to persuade me of Jesus’ divinity.

How about Ignatius of Antioch? He was a student of John the Apostle. He wrote this in his letter to the Ephesians:

“For our God, Jesus Christ, was, according to the appointment of God, conceived in the womb by Mary, of the seed of David, but by the Holy Ghost. He was born and baptized, that by His passion He might purify the water (The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians Chapter XVIII, The Glory of the Cross) *emphasis is mine.” earlychristianwritings.com/text/ignatius-ephesians-roberts.html

Apparently Saint Ignatius, who knew John the Apostle, who knew Jesus, believed that Jesus was, and is divine.

 

[Ignatius]

This is a question which I must answer for a friend of mine. He comes from a predominately protestant family, and I believe that they are very inactive. My question is, what reasons should I give him to become Catholic and why Catholicism has more validity then Protestantism? He’s not stubborn and I know he’s very open and I’m sure if I give him the proper reasoning he’ll be willing to take RCIA. I appreciate any help anyone can give me, or if there’s already a thread with a list of reason or something, could I be directed to that as well?

Thanks,
Snakemauler

Discerning the Church which Christ founded.

There are a few things we know about this true church:

1. It was built by Jesus Christ himself (Matt 16:18) which means that the “true church” must be about 2000 years old.
2. Jesus only built ONE church (Matt 16:18).
3. This church is the God -ordained upholder, protector and defender of the truth (1 Tim 3:15).
4. This church is the fullness of Christ (Eph 1:22-23) which means that it is also the fullness of truth (John 14:6).
5. The unity of this church will be proof to the world that Jesus was sent by God (John 17:21,23). In order for this unity to be seen by the world this church must be a visible church. The unity of this church must be a unity like that which exists between Jesus and the Father (John 17:21-23), therefore there can be no contradictions in doctrine. The Father and the Son do not disagree on doctrine therefore neither can the “true church”.
6. This church can never change what it proclaims to be true. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever (Heb 13:8) therefore truth is the same yesterday, today and forever (John 14:6).
7. The Church which Jesus Christ founded is the one through which He chose to declare which are the books contained in His New and Eternal Covenant.

MORE……

How to recognize the Church founded by Jesus Christ.

Use this guideline as a measure…

*Jesus Christ Himself said that He would found His Church in Mt 16:18 when He walked the Earth in the flesh 2000 years ago, so it must be 2000 years old.
*It would be built on Simon Peter, Mt 16:18.
*It would be defended by GOD Himself, Mt 16:18-19.
*It would have authority given by Jesus Christ, Mt 16:19,18:17-18.
*It would be guided by the Holy Spirit who will dwell within it, Jn 14:15-17, Act 15:28,16:6.
*It would be one and undivided, Mk 3:24-25.
*It would have one fold and one shepherd, Jn 10:16.
*It would have Priests, Bishops, and Deacons, 1Tim 3:1-13.
*It must have the Holy Eucharist celebration, Jn 6:42-70, Act 2:42.
*It must be found in all nations, Mt 28:19.
*It must be found in all centuries, Mt 28:20.
*Jesus Christ said He would be with His Church every day, in every year, until the end of the world, Mt 28:20. This means no gaps in time.

Examine your Church to see if it meets ALL of these requirements.
It must NOT have a human person founder.
It must have a continuous history going back over 2000 years.

 

[piltdown_man]

Great post Ignatius! I wonder, however, about the way you use 1 Timothy 3:15 to support your idea that the Church is God:

1. This church is the God -ordained upholder, protector and defender of the truth (1 Tim 3:15).

I really don’t think that this is the case. I think that Paul, the author of 1 Timothy, is conveying that the Church is a “household of God.” He is saying that those whom are members of the Church should behave as such, at least until Paul is able visit the Pastor, Timothy, and correct certain problems with this particular group of Christian’s doctrine and organization. I don’t think that he is saying that the Church is the one God.

Here is the verse (1 Timothy 3:15 NAB):

“But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.”

God bless.

 

[grndslm]

Interesting that you use bible passages to prove an end.

Even more interesting that I just received this book on my doorstep the other day, called National Sunday Law: Forces unite amid stupendous crisis. . .

I skimmed thru it just for fun, and since it was quoting scripture, I gave it a chance. Figured this was a sign from God. All my prayers have been answered! But the skimming leads me to find this author is claiming that the prophetic books of the Bible define exactly who the Beast is in scripture.

I’d truly love a point by point response to this if possible. I’m truly glad that I did not throw this in the trash. It’s taken me two hours to type out the parts I think are most relevant to getting scripture’s picture of THE BEAST, so please take this seriously…

=============
2 - THE BEAST IDENTIFIED​

But before we learn what the mark is, we must discover who the beast is. And it won’t be hard. In fact, the Bible makes it so clear that I’ll simply list the characteristics of it and you’ll be able to tell me who it is! Are you ready? Here we go -
1} A “beast” in prophecy represents a kingdom, a nation, a power. The prophetic book of Daniel tells us - “Thus be said, the fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth.” Daniel 7:23

2} This beast comes up out of the “sea.” When a beast arises from the “sea,” it represents a power rising in a highly populated area; amid “peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.” Revelation 17:15. It would have to conquer the existing government.

3} This beast has seven heads and ten horns. A head represents the headquarters of a government. The head of a county is called the “county seat,” you remember.
A “horn” represents a king, a ruler." And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise." Daniel 7:24. The beast is a power with a man at the head of it. You’ll find that the Bible explains itself!

4} “The beast has the name of blasphemy” {Rev. 13:1}.
…
Concerning the beast it says, “…And upon his heads the name of blasphemy.” Revelation 13:1. The very leaders of this power would both claim to be God on the earth, and claim to have power to forgive men’s sins!

5} “And the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.” Revelation 13.2.
It’s clear that the beast gets its “seat” and “authority” from the dragon. But who’s the dragon? Rev. 20:2. Rev. 12:3-5
…
So the “Dragon” represents not only Satan, but also a kingdom thru whom Satan worked to try to kill baby Jesus as soon as He was born. Now what kingdom was it whose king decreed the destruction of the babies in Bethlehem?
Of course! It was King Herod. He was employed by, and a representative of Rome. So here’s another clue. The beast gets its power, seat, and authority from Rome!
… When the Roman empire collapsed, ten divisions resulted. Barbarian tribes hammered at the Roman empire for many years until it fell apart and the divisions were ruled by ten kings! They were: the Alemnani {German}, the Franks {France}, Burgundians {Switzerland}, the Suevi {Portugal}, the Anglo-Saxons {Britain}, the Visigoths {Spain}, the Lombards {Italy}, the Vandals, Ostrogoths, and Heruli The last three were destroyed by the pope of Rome because they refused to become “Christian.” … In 538 A.D. the pope took possession of the city after the emperor decreed that he should be the head of all the Christian churches. These ten divisions of Rome are the ten horns of the “dragon”. Now look at this -

6} “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” Revelation 13:8
This is not only a political power but a religious power as well. It demands worship and gets it.

7} It’s a world-side power. “All the world wondered after the beast.” Revelation 13:3.
Maybe you already know who the “beast” is.
Can you think of any world-wide political and religious power with a man at the head of it who claims to be God on earth and to be able to forgive Sins? Who received its “seat” and authority from Rome? Of a church government whose leader is “wondered after” by the whole world?
…
In identifying the beast, God is not talking about sincere people who are involved with it “ignorantly”. Do you know what I mean? When He identifies it, He is talking about “the system”; the leaders, who know what they are doing, and deliberately disobey and change the word of God.

8} It has characteristics of the four beasts {nations} which existed before it.
…
“These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.”
…
The Lion - Babylon
The Bear - Medo-Persia
The Leopard - Greece
The Terrible Beast - Rome

 

[grndslm]

Part 2

…
Who is the fourth “terrible” beast of Daniel 7?
“after this i saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: It devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: . . . And it had ten horns.” “the fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth.” Daniel 7:7,23
Rome conquered Greece in 168 b.c. And eventually gave its power to the “beast” of revelation 13. Out of the fourth “terrible beast” comes a “little horn”.
Now here’s something amazing. The beast of revelation 13, and the “little horn” of Daniel 7, are one and the same power! God wants to make sure that there’s no mistaking who this power is, so he describes it in both prophetic books.
“i considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: And, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. . . And he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against the most high, and think to change times and laws; and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the diving of time.” daniel 7: 8, 24, 25.
<see appendix 1b to understand how this beast reigns for 1260 years>
…
Now - who is this “beast”? What power -
1} - received its “seat” and authority from Rome. Rev. 13:4.
2} - rules the world for 1260 years {from 538 ad to 1798 ad}.
3} - then received a “deadly wound” which later heals. Rev. 13:3.
4} - is both a political and a religious power, which is worshiped. Rev. 13:3.
5} - tampered with god’s law. Daniel 7:25
6} - has a leader who claims to be god on the earth and to be able to forgive sins {blasphemy}. Rev. 13:1.
7} - is a mother church {daughters have come out of her}. Rev. 17:5.
8} - made war with the saints. Rev. 13:7.
9} - is a world power which is wondered at. Rev. 13:3,4
10} - has “a man” at the head of it with the number of his name being 666. Rev. 13:18.
11} - has a dreaded “mark” which will cause you, or any person, to be cast into the lake of fire and lose eternal life. "rev. 14:9,10.

By now, most of the people have guessed that it’s the papacy. They’re correct. It’s the only power on the face of the earth that fits all the bible characteristics for it.
But what about 666?

=============
3 - the beast described​

Emperor Justinian “gave” the power of Rome to the pope when he decreed that the pope should be over all the Christian churches of the earth. The papacy was established in 538 a.d., when the emperor’s general Belisarius drove the Ostrogoths from Rome.
Rome gave him his “seat”. Bible prophecy predicted it hundreds of years before it happened!
From 538 ad the papacy ruled for exactly 1260 years, until 1798 when something incredible happened. The pope was taken prisoner! Napoleon’s general, berthier, captured the pope and took him to france! He later died.
A deadly wound. The papacy had reigned exactly 1260 years. Could it have just been coincidence?
Napoleon wanted to rule the world. The papacy stood in his way. I wonder if they knew they were fulfilling prophecy in spite of themselves1
“… And his deadly wound was healed; and all the world wondered after the beast.” rev. 13.3.
"in 1929, the Italian government recognized Vatican City as an independent state. Once again, the pope was king. … The San Francisco Chronicle published an account of the pact signing on the front page of its newspaper. It actually read like this, “Mussolini and Gaspari sign historic pact… Heal wound of many years”.
Though this great organization was not officially established until 538 ad, the apostle Paul saw forces at work that were preparing the way. What was going on back there that he could have seen? Here’s what happened.
After Jesus went back to heaven, the early church grew rapidly under the blessing of the holy spirit. Jesus had predicted the treatment that his people were to receive.
“then they shall deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you; and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.” Matthew 24:9. That was literally fulfilled. Look at this amazing account -
“their execution was made into a game,” wrote Tacitus, describing the persecutions under Nero. "they were covered with the skins of wild animals and torn to pieces by dogs. They were hung on crosses. They were burned, wrapped in flammable material and set on fire, to illuminate the night.
“to escape death, the had but to repudiate Christ and sacrifice to the emperor.” some did, but many more were tortured to death rather than deny their lord.
“paganism foresaw that should the gospel triumph, her temples and altars would be swept away; therefore she summoned her forces to destroy Christianity. Christians were stripped of their possessions and driven from their homes. Great numbers sealed their testimony with their blood. Noble and slave, rich and poor, learned and ignorant, were alike slain without mercy.
Beneath the hills outside the city of Rome, long galleries had been tunneled through earth and rock; the dark and intricate network of passages extended for miles beyond the city walls. In these underground retreats the followers of Christ buried their dead; and here also, when suspected, they found a home. Many were ‘tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection’. Hebrews 11:35. They rejoiced that they were accounted worthy to suffer for the truth, and songs of triumph ascended from the midst of the crackling flames.”

 

[grndslm]

Part 3

until 313 ad, it was against the law to be a christian. Such a person was an automatic criminal. But the followers of jesus spread everywhere.
Satan could see that he had to change his tactics. He would come up with a better scheme. What could the devil think of to do that would be better than killing christians?
Make things easy - and infiltrate! Like a wise general he would corrupt the church from the inside!
Watch what happens.
A great shout goes up in the empire. Emperor constantine has become a christian! The christians are euphoric.
No more being torn apart by dogs and lions, or used as dupes to be cut down in cold blood, or human torches to light up the arena for the gladiators. Now christianity is the state religion! Things are going great. Or so it seems.
But little by little, as everyone relaxes and quits worrying about being tortured to death, something happens. Compromise!
Gradually the leaders, for the sake of popularity and gain, let down the standards to make it easier for the pagans to come into the church. But this brings in errors and pagan customs.
Not at all surprised by satan’s scheme to corrupt his church from within, god gives us fair warning. Listen to paul’s shocking words.
“let no man deceive you by any means: For that day [of the lord] shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called god, or that is worshipped; so that he as god sitteth in the temple of god, shewing himself that he is god.” “for the mystery of iniquity doth already work:” ii thessalonians 2:1,2,3,4,7.
Oh yes! He saw it coming. The mysterious work of corruption rapidly progressed after the death of the last apostle.
Question: What happened?
After persecution ceased, satan’s great device was to control the leaders of the church. If he could inflate their ego; make them money hungry, the whole body would be affected. A popularity contest would be on to get as many heathen to accept christianity as possible. The wealth and prestige of the church would grow. Who cares if you have to change the bible somewhat to get them! Just introduce some of the heathen customs and rites into christianity, give them christian names, and the heathen will flock in.
Of all horrors - that’s just what happened!
The apostles had gone throughout the empire establishing churches in many cities. As time went by smaller churches were built in the surrounding country-sides. The large centers were in jerusalem, rome, and alexandria, egypt. Rome finally emerged on top.
The next step in the plot was for church leaders to get control of the state, to help enforce their decrees. They achieved this beyond their wildest dreams. The epitome of this came when, in 538 ad, the entire city of rome was handed over to the pope - the bishop of rome. For the next 1260 years, church leaders reigned with full civil authority. All just as predicted in prophecy!
Incredible!
But look at this shocker.
It says that the beast has “the name of blasphemy”. Revelation 13:1. It became one of the leading doctrines of the church that its visible head is invested with supreme authority over bishops and pastors in all parts of the world. More than this, he took the very name of god! He was addressed as “lord god the pope” and declared to be “infallible” (for documentation on this, see appendix 3)

<<<<
– excerpts from appendix 3 –
“all the names which are attributed to christ in scripture, implying his supremacy over the church, are also attributed to the pope.” bellamin, “on the authority of councils”, book 2, chapter 17.
“for thou art the shepherd, thou art the physician, thou art the director, thou art the husbandbman, finally thou art another god on earth.” labbe and cossart’s “history of the councils”, vol. Xiv, col. 109.
For the title “lord god the pope”, see a gloss on the extravagantes of pope john xxii, title 14, chapter 4, declaramus.
…
Infallibility
among the twenty-seven propositions known as the “dictates of hildebrand” (under the name of pope gregory vii) occur the following:
" 2. That the roman pontiff alone is justly styled universal."
" 6. That no person. . . May live under the same room with one excommunicated by the pope."
" 9. That all princes should kiss his feet only."
“19. That he can be judged by no one.”
“22. That the roman church never erred, nor will it, according to the scripture, ever err.”
“27. That he can absolve subjects from their allegiance to unrighteous rulers.”

in clark’s commentary on daniel 7:25, it says:
“they have assumed infallibility, which belongs only to god. They profess to forgive sins, which belongs only to god.”

he demands the worship of all men.
What about 666? Let’s take a shocking look.
On the pope’s official mitre has been seen the title “vicarius filii dei”, which means “vicar of the son of god”.
The claim that this is his official title has been seen stated publicly through the years. The april 18, 1915 issue of our sunday visitor states: “the letters inscribed in the pope’s mitre are these: ‘vicarius filii dei’, which is latin for vicar of the son of god.”
in revelation 13:18 it says, “count the number of the beast; for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred threescore and six (666).”
let’s do it now and see what we find. Remember the roman numberals you learned in school? (“u” and “v” have the same value. Look in your encyclopedia under “alphabet”. One example is that on the “arch of titus” in rome, it says, “titvs”.)

v = 5
i = 1
c = 100
a = 0
r = 0
i = 1
u = 5
s = 0

f = 0
i = 1
l = 50
i = 1
i = 1

d = 500
e = 0
i = 1​

total = 666 !!!

 

[Michael_Francis]

***Several posts have been pruned from this thread in order to help keep it on topic.

Please remain on the topic of “Why become Catholic?” and deal with that.

God bless.***

 

[SnakeMauler]

Everyone, I appreciate all your help.

Now I haven’t exactly talked to him yet, but I feel as though questions regarding the actions of the church throughout the ages might come up (the crusades, witch persecution, persecution of scientists like Gallileo and such, etc). And I was wondering how to defend that. I believe this is probably very relevant to learning how to become Catholic and will prevent him from questioning some of the Church’s actions over the years (as many people often think this means Catholics are bad people).

Thanks,
Snakemauler

P.S. I much appreciate the fact that there’s people on the Internet who spend time helping people who they don’t know.

 

[Holly3278]

Because the Catholic Church is the one true Church and Faith. It’s really as simple as that.