Why bother with Religion?

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

You are right that I am playing devil’s advocate throughout this thread, because I call myself Catholic and I think that there is truth in the teachings of the Church. Possibly there is absolute truth in the teachings of the Church, but I haven’t come to those conclusions yet. I have an optimistic outlook on Christianity, because I have seen the good it can do in people. I have been confirmed in the Catholic Church (at a too early point in my life, I might add, as far as the perception of finality that it brings). I continually find more truth in Catholicism it than other denominations of Christianity, but that is only when I place myself already on the side of the argument of a belief in God. The other side of the argument makes sense if I place myself on their side of the argument, of no belief in God.

So, to the extent of answering the title of the thread, THAT is why I bother with religion, because I want to investigate the good it brings. This does not mean that I have convinced myself that Catholicism contains the absolute truth above that of another religion in the world, it is just what I have been exposed to and what I have found to be useful so far.

All of my posts here completely follow my logical, intellectual way of thinking, and their purpose are to help myself and others reading the thread who are coming from a similar standpoint (there are a lot of these types that become or are atheists) get to this intellectual side of things, and to the crux of the argument.

What I have found here are that there are a lot of “emotional feelers” here that contribute nothing in helping the “thinkers” get anywhere.

The books that were mentioned were quite helpful, and maybe that is all that will be needed is to read them, however, I really am surprised that no one here can take this discussion any further than “to develop one’s faith, you can’t read anything to do it, it is just going to occur, and you will just FEEL it.”

Just because I am the one coming from the Catholic side of things doesn’t mean that I can’t argue from the other side if things if their indvidual points make more sense, because the absolute truth should prevail and come out, right?

Check this out.

Merry Christmas.

Oh, and by the way, you seem to be only getting approval for your words from (perhaps?) an atheist. I though that Sandy’s noting that she was praying for others was perfectly fine to be honest. I see no reason to put down anyone who says they are praying for others. We never know how the Spirit may move someone who is open to the petitions of a devout person.

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

Well that is rather uncharitable young man, despite your desire not to appear uncharitable. Didn’t Jesus say something about loving your neighbor? And don’t you want those you love to go to Heaven and not Hell? And isn’t it a requirement under your belief system for ascendancy into Heaven that one believe in God and Catholic teachings? And one who does not so believe will go to Hell?

Of course the answers to the previous questions are all yes. Therefore, if you don’t care what I think, then you must want me to go to Hell, in which case you are in direct violation of the teachings of Jesus.

Let me guess?

Now that you’ve thoroughly twisted their words around to mean something they didn’t actually mean, now you’re going to claim that his explanation is actually heterodox to Catholic teachings, right?

sigh

Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[Imagine23]

Let me guess?

Now that you’ve thoroughly twisted their words around to mean something they didn’t actually mean, now you’re going to claim that his explanation is actually heterodox to Catholic teachings, right?

sigh

Welcome to my ignore list.

Read the post that I responded to and then follow my syllogism. When you take the time to follow it, you will see its truth.

 

[ThisOne]

Right. I thought I had something to work with there on the human conceptual side of things, but I guess not. We can make semantical arguments all day long that God is the ultimate source of all of these things, but it isn’t going to help to better understand the human aspect of it at all, the human involvement in the deal, the “free will” that we have. If we can choose to not have faith, we can choose to have it, even if it is God working through us in the latter case.

So basically, back to the initial comment on Aquinas, what you and he are saying is that we either get it or we don’t, and there is no way to help along the process with knowledge.

I would rather easily like to argue that it IS knowledge that has helped many along with it, even if one can semantically argue that it was actually God behind it working through that knowledge.

I understand you perfectly. What you want is “systematic theology.”

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

I understand you perfectly. What you want is “systematic theology.”

Then perhaps people should do a search for “systematic theology”.

In the meantime, many people like Sandy and myself are witnessing toward others in order to pave the way for others to be ‘more informed’ when they actually take the step to look into the combined synthesis of systematic theology as presented within the broader scope of Christianity-- hopefully specifically Catholic systematic theology.

 

[ThisOne]

Then perhaps people should do a search for “systematic theology”.

In the meantime, many people like Sandy and myself are witnessing toward others in order to pave the way for others to be ‘more informed’ when they actually take the step to look into the combined synthesis of systematic theology as presented within the broader scope of Christianity-- hopefully specifically Catholic systematic theology.

Yes, a search would be a start. I’ve been wondering why what I said wasn’t suggested before. I came into this thread on the last page, and I could not read the whole thread to make sure of that, but it seemed the question was still unanswered. I’m actually very surprised no one suggested that to him, and I don’t quite understand why.

mmortal might want to locate a copy of Theology for Beginners by Frank Sheed, which I haven’t read but is highly recommended.

 

[mmortal03]

Yes, a search would be a start. I’ve been wondering why what I said wasn’t suggested before. I came into this thread on the last page, and I could not read the whole thread to make sure of that, but it seemed the question was still unanswered. I’m actually very surprised no one suggested that to him, and I don’t quite understand why.

mmortal might want to locate a copy of Theology for Beginners by Frank Sheed, which I haven’t read but is highly recommended.

Good recommendations. I have done some basic reading on systematic theology before, and I have a copy of “Theology for Beginners” already, of which I have read some of it.

The message of this thread seems to be that these issues are too difficult to sum up neatly by laymen, and that certain books can sum up the main issues here much more convincingly.

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

Good recommendations. I have done some basic reading on systematic theology before, and I have a copy of “Theology for Beginners” already, of which I have read some of it.

The message of this thread seems to be that these issues are too difficult to sum up neatly by laymen, and that certain books can sum up the main issues here much more convincingly.

Then if we ‘simple folk’ are finding this too difficult to explain to your satisfaction, might I suggest an excellent series on this matter?

FINDING GOD THROUGH FAITH AND REASON

Fr. Robert Spitzer, S.J., Ph.D., lends insight into new evidence gathered from the fields of contemporary philosophy and physics which supports proof for the existence of God. The universe itself connotes the existence of a creator and the principle of intelligent design leads to logical conclusions about the nature of God.

Certainly, this would lay the proper groundwork that would open the door and lead one into a systematic theology, enough for anyone who is serious about investigating this further anyway.

Of course, if they’re really not interested to begin with, then we can sit here explaining this until we’re blue in the face and still not get anything accomplished. If the person is not open to the Spirit, then no arguments will enable them to ‘get it’.

This is ultimately a work of God as the Holy Spirit moves them toward belief-- God acting through the believer (since grace is God’s life in the person of faith). And if this is considered too simple minded for the intellectuals, then I guess the intellectuals know more about faith than the Holy Spirit who grants, reveals and explains this faith to them.