Why Can’t Lutherans Take Catholic Communion?

[EvangelCatholic]

Came across this article from the perspective/ practice of an ELCA pastor regarding intercommunion.

Any thoughts?

Why Can’t Lutherans Take Catholic Communion?

October 25, 2012

Russell E. Saltzman

No, I have never snuck into a Catholic mass for Holy Communion. Not the first time anyway. I politely asked, and when I communed I had the permission of the archbishop of Washington, D.C.

That was 1978 when I was one of the chaplains at a Scout summer camp in Virginia and still a Lutheran seminarian. There was a Catholic priest on staff, and I approached him for communion. He thought it would be okay but he first had to check. The archbishop didn’t blink, the priest told me, and up I went during the distribution.

I don’t remember any time restriction attached to the archbishop’s permission (probably best not to ask) so I have comfortably communed with Roman Catholics a number of times, usually on vacation visiting Catholic relatives. I’m discreet; I don’t have the archbishop’s permission in writing so I can’t exactly flaunt it.

It works the other way too. Roman Catholics have received from my hand at funerals, at weddings, at Christmas, and on ordinary Sundays.

Intercommunion for us is no big deal, though it used to be. Beginning in 1875 and for about a century thereafter, we had the Akron-Galesburg Rule: Lutheran pulpits for Lutheran pastors only; Lutheran altars for Lutheran communicants only. It was directed against Protestants who did not accept the doctrine of the Real Presence, but it probably discouraged a Catholic or two as well.

Those Lutheran church bodies that still have a “closed” altar nonetheless offer many exceptions, although on a case-by-case, congregation-by-congregation basis. Yet even Lutherans with “open” altars mostly couch their invitations in Real Presence terms. The point is: on most Sundays, in most places, Catholics may commune with Lutherans.

firstthings.com/onthesqua…olic-communion

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Because they don’t want Lutherans to take that communion. They want catholics in the body of Christ to take that communion. Thats how it should be, though it often isn’t.

 

[benjohnson]

It’s not that Catholics are being rude, they’re doing their best to protect people from “eating and drinking judgment on themselves” - they even don’t allow Catholics to commune who are not in the proper state of grace.

1 Corinthians 11:29 - New Living Translation (©2007):

“For if you eat the bread or drink the cup without honoring the body of Christ, you are eating and drinking God’s judgment upon yourself.”

Now… as a Lutheran who was stuck in Catholic France for two months, I can tell you that Catholics take their faith seriously, and they can discern, and they are full of Grace and joyous kindness. For myself, I’ll leave it at that.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The biggest question is, why would anyone want Communion from a Church other than theirs or those they are in communion with?

 

[EvangelCatholic]

It’s not that Catholics are being rude, they’re doing their best to protect people from “eating and drinking judgment on themselves” - they even don’t allow Catholics to commune who are not in the proper state of grace.

1 Corinthians 11:29 - New Living Translation (©2007):

“For if you eat the bread or drink the cup without honoring the body of Christ, you are eating and drinking God’s judgment upon yourself.”

Now… as a Lutheran who was stuck in Catholic France for two months, I can tell you that Catholics take their faith seriously, and they can discern, and they are full of Grace and joyous kindness. For myself, I’ll leave it at that.

Your experience is the polar opposite of my experience starting with retreats at St Augustine’s House in the late 1960’s/70’s. Catholic nuns [Immaculate Heart of Mary] who stayed in St Monica’s House and monks {Marist] taking extended retreats [several months]. Fully participating in the Hours and noon Mass. This was a LCMS monastery [not sure if they are still LCMS]. Father Aurthur Kreinheder [The Good Heart: Arthur Carl Kreinheder, CSC - An Ecumenical Giant]](The Good Heart: Arthur Carl Kreinheder, CSC - An Ecumenical Giant]) came from a Missouri Synod family of clergy/ university administrators. LCA [now ELCA] pastors, Anglicans; even a Baptist joined the Benedictine community, especially on Sundays .

Believe me, there’s an entirely different world of Catholics and Lutherans worshiping God and sharing holy Mass.

 

[po18guy]

Intercommunion is relativism.

 

[MaryT777]

The biggest question is, why would anyone want Communion from a Church other than theirs or those they are in communion with?

That’s my thought as well.

 

[Church_Militant]

If he had permission form the local bishop then that would mean the bishop was under the impression that he was properly disposed. That’s his call…right or wrong.

However, Pope John Paul the Great dealt with this issue every clearly in his encyclical Ecclesia de Eucharistia (Note especially sections 43-46)

This was the question in the Ask an Apologist forum.

 

[Lasting_faith]

Let’s make it short and weet, because they are Lutherans.

 

[po18guy]

Let’s make it short and weet, because they are Lutherans.

…and do not hold to many Catholic beliefs.

 

[po18guy]

Came across this article from the perspective/ practice of an ELCA pastor regarding intercommunion. Any thoughts?

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church, here is why:

1400 Ecclesial communities derived from the Reformation and separated from the Catholic Church, "have not preserved the proper reality of the Eucharistic mystery in its fullness, especially because of the absence of the sacrament of Holy Orders."239 It is for this reason that, for the Catholic Church, Eucharistic intercommunion with these communities is not possible. However these ecclesial communities, "when they commemorate the Lord’s death and resurrection in the Holy Supper . . . profess that it signifies life in communion with Christ and await his coming in glory."240

But also:

1399 The Eastern churches that are not in full communion with the Catholic Church celebrate the Eucharist with great love. “These Churches, although separated from us, yet possess true sacraments, above all - by apostolic succession - the priesthood and the Eucharist, whereby they are still joined to us in closest intimacy.” A certain communion in sacris, and so in the Eucharist, "given suitable circumstances and the approval of Church authority, is not merely possible but is encouraged."238

238 UR 15 § 2; cf. CIC, can. 844 § 3.
239, 240 UR 22 § 3.
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19641121_unitatis-redintegratio_en.html

 

[Michael57]

It seems to go against the CCC.

 

[Michael57]

Am I reading this article wrong?

The Lutheran Seminarian received permission second hand, and verbally to take communion during Scout Camp. Then the Lutheran Minister (assuming he graduated Lutheran seminary) later proceeded to continue to take Catholic communion whenever he visited his Catholic relatives?

This sounds very unusual. On so many levels.

It’s actually disturbing to me that the article’s author has such a cavalier attitude about something so serious to both Lutherans and Catholics.

I often visited Catholic Mass prior to my conversion, but I was always warned to never take Holy Communion at Mass without having gone through RCIA. And I took that very seriously and respectfully.

Am I missing the point here?

 

[po18guy]

Am I reading this article wrong?

The Lutheran Seminarian received permission second hand, and verbally to take communion during Scout Camp. Then the Lutheran Minister (assuming he graduated Lutheran seminary) later proceeded to continue to take Catholic communion whenever he visited his Catholic relatives?

This sounds very unusual. On so many levels.

It’s actually disturbing to me that the article’s author has such a cavalier attitude about something so serious to both Lutherans and Catholics.

I often visited Catholic Mass prior to my conversion, but I was always warned to never take Holy Communion at Mass without having gone through RCIA. And I took that very seriously and respectfully.

Am I missing the point here?

Sadly, it seems quite often that some wrongly perceive the Catholic Church as haughty or arrogant, and desire to knock her off of her pedestal, and to sneak a Sacrament, or something. Why anyone would partake of communion with those with whom they sharply disagree on certain things is beyond me.

 

[adf417]

It’s not that Catholics are being rude, they’re doing their best to protect people from “eating and drinking judgment on themselves” - they even don’t allow Catholics to commune who are not in the proper state of grace.

Hi Ben.
Sadly, even this statement is a bit strong as priests are being told they cannot outright deny communion to anyone. I know this is not what you mean but I did want to clarify that the Catholic Church teaches that even Catholics “should not” receive communion if not in the proper state of grace.

Peace!!!

 

[JonNC]

=benjohnson;10896892]It’s not that Catholics are being rude, they’re doing their best to protect people from “eating and drinking judgment on themselves” - they even don’t allow Catholics to commune who are not in the proper state of grace.

1 Corinthians 11:29 - New Living Translation (©2007):

“For if you eat the bread or drink the cup without honoring the body of Christ, you are eating and drinking God’s judgment upon yourself.”

This is, in part, the reason for LCMS close communion as well.

To me the answer resides in simple manners. They ask us not to, and that is why we can’t.
When one is a guest in another’s house, one abides by the rules set down by the host. Simple manners.

Jon

 

[EvangelCatholic]

This is, in part, the reason for LCMS close communion as well.

To me the answer resides in simple manners. **They ask us not to, and that is why we can’t.**When one is a guest in another’s house, one abides by the rules set down by the host. Simple manners.

Jon

Jon,

“They” meaning Roman Catholic and LCMS want us to “ask” as this ELCA pastor did when he was a seminarian. Any Missouri Synod parish I have attended [and there have been many over the years] merely want the pastor to know before Mass. But in actuality, no LCMS or Catholic priest will deny the blessed Sacrament. The ELCA ask that the communicant be baptized and believe in the Real Presence. That is what the author states citing this “Akron-Galesburg Rule” from the 1800’s to only discourage those who do not believe in the Real Presence from receiving communion.

My experience is nearly identical to this ELCA pastor as I have stated here and on other threads.

If those who are baptized desire Holy Communion and believe it is the “true Holy Body and Blood of Christ” as stated by the priest/ eucharistic ministers, then why put up a barrier to this wonderful Gift of forgiveness and eternal life?

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Came across this article from the perspective/ practice of an ELCA pastor regarding intercommunion.

Any thoughts?

The institution of the Lord’s Supper was a private and intimate event between Christ and the Twelve.

Further, apart from what Paul talks about in the New Testament, we see what one of the first generation of Christians says about this:

Justin Martyr’s 1st Apology:

CHAPTER LXVI – OF THE EUCHARIST

And this food is called among us Eukaristia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, “This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body;” and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, “This is My blood;” and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn.

Here’s more on THE SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST from the CCC.

Just my
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[EvangelCatholic]

The institution of the Lord’s Supper was a private and intimate event between Christ and the Twelve.

Further, apart from what Paul talks about in the New Testament, we see what one of the first generation of Christians says about this:

Justin Martyr’s 1st Apology:

CHAPTER LXVI – OF THE EUCHARIST

Here’s more on THE SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST from the CCC.

Just my
http://websitepicturesonly.coinauct...IN_IMAGES/SmallCents/1864smallmotto2cents.jpg

The Lutheran Confessions cite Justin Martyr in confirming the benefits of the Sacrament and the Real Presence:

37] Even as many eminent ancient teachers, Justin, Cyprian, Augustine, Leo, Gelasius, Chrysostom and others, use this simile concerning the words of Christ’s testament: This is My body, that just as in Christ two distinct, unchanged natures are inseparably united, so in the Holy Supper the two substances, the natural bread and the true natural body of Christ, are present together here upon earth in the appointed administration of the Sacrament.

 

[wllmjoseph]

Intercommunion is relativism.

I completely agree. Intercommunion a serious affront to the True Presence in the Eucharist. What is truly concerning is that their are many priests and religious who is the spririt of ecumenism believes that the Eucharist should be made available to any Christian. The meaning of the Eucharist becomes confused when non Catholics or Orthodox Christians are able to have communion is a Catholic Church or Chapel.