Why Can’t Lutherans Take Catholic Communion?

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JonNC said:
Without questioning the word of the writer of the article, isn’t it the typical procedure in a case such as this for the priest to receive the bishop’s permission?

Jon
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Yes, of course it is, and I would applaud the priest for following the correct protocol. What doesn’t seem right is the circumstances. We have a Lutheran at a scout camp; kind of a “spur of the moment” thing. And so I am trying to imagine the conversation. “Bishop, I have a Lutheran minister here at the scout camp with me and was just wondering if it’s okay for him to receive the Eucharist. He has been baptized and believes in the real presence. What do you think?” In my opinion the bishop should have respond with “where in the heck did you go to seminary and why are you bothering me with this?” The entire scenario just doesn’t seem very likely to me.
 
JonNC said:
None of this in any way applies to the Lutheran understanding. The Confutation received and accepted the Augsburg Confessions’s statement regarding the doctrine of the real presence in the Eucharist.

The issue of apostolic succession, from the Catholic POV, is a huge issue, OTOH, when it comes to who should and should not receive the sacrament where. It is not the place of the laity, or the clergy for that matter, to fix this issue between through stepping outside the directives of the leadership of our respective communions. It is up to the leadership to dialogue.

Jon
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But, it is precisely the Lutheran understanding that is at issue, is it not? The reformers approached the Orthodox Church hoping to form a communion or alliance, but were rebuffed over their teachings, amongst other reasons. Both the Catholic and Orthodox hold that the reform failed to maintain the nature of the episcopate so as to validly confect the Eucharist.
 
SteveVH said:
Yes, of course it is, and I would applaud the priest for following the correct protocol. What doesn’t seem right is the circumstances. We have a Lutheran at a scout camp; kind of a “spur of the moment” thing. And so I am trying to imagine the conversation. “Bishop, I have a Lutheran minister here at the scout camp with me and was just wondering if it’s okay for him to receive the Eucharist. He has been baptized and believes in the real presence. What do you think?” The point is, I don’t know many priests who would even bother the bishop with something like this. It just doesn’t seem very likely to me.
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Funny thing is I had a camp experience similar to this. Short version is I was isolated at camp away from any Lutheran church, and with the only other option being Presbyterian, I asked the Catholic priest who regularly held mass at the camp. Father “D” was a wonderful man, and I am forever grateful to him.

Why, Steve, do you say that a priest would not bother the bishop? Would he typically just go ahead and allow the Lutheran to receive, or would he typically refuse?

Jon
 
po18guy said:
But, it is precisely the Lutheran understanding that is at issue, is it not? The reformers approached the Orthodox Church hoping to form a communion or alliance, but were rebuffed over their teachings, amongst other reasons. Both the Catholic and Orthodox hold that the reform failed to maintain the nature of the episcopate so as to validly confect the Eucharist.
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Not in terms of the nature of the sacrament - the real presence, but as you say, in terms of the episcopacy. I was initially responding to your comment about a “remembrance”.

Jon
 
SteveVH said:
Yes, of course it is, and I would applaud the priest for following the correct protocol. What doesn’t seem right is the circumstances. We have a Lutheran at a scout camp; kind of a “spur of the moment” thing. And so I am trying to imagine the conversation. “Bishop, I have a Lutheran minister here at the scout camp with me and was just wondering if it’s okay for him to receive the Eucharist. He has been baptized and believes in the real presence. What do you think?” The point is, I don’t know many priests who would even bother the bishop with something like this. It just doesn’t seem very likely to me.
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What doesn’t make sense? That an archbishop immediately said yes? Or that in 1978 the priest would seek his bishops feedback?

I was also a Lutheran seminarian in 1970’s who regularly communed with Catholic religious in Catholic communities and they received Communion in Lutheran churches,
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Again, how do Lutherans not belong to the same church as St Justin? We celebrate his holy day on June 1st. What teaching requires that someone must believe in the Apostolic Succession to be worthy of Christ’s Body and Blood?

BTW, Lutherans do believe/ practice the Apostolic Succession.
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Because St. Justin’s Church has a Pope. Your confessions are not too fond of Peter’s Chair.
 
JonNC said:
Funny thing is I had a camp experience similar to this. Short version is I was isolated at camp away from any Lutheran church, and with the only other option being Presbyterian, I asked the Catholic priest who regularly held mass at the camp. Father “D” was a wonderful man, and I am forever grateful to him.

Why, Steve, do you say that a priest would not bother the bishop? Would he typically just go ahead and allow the Lutheran to receive, or would he typically refuse?

Jon
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I highly doubt there are too many Confessional Lutherans approaching a priest to receive Holy Communion.

The conversation between that priest and the person would be confidential.
Priests don’t talk about those types of private issues publicly.
 
Isaiah45_9 said:
Because St. Justin’s Church has a Pope. Your confessions are not too fond of Peter’s Chair.
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This most certainly is true which is why I find the thought of a confessional Lutheran asking a priest for Holy Communion to be probably a very very very rare situation.
 
Isaiah45_9 said:
Because St. Justin’s Church has a Pope. Your confessions are not too fond of Peter’s Chair.
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You can’t believe that Lutherans holy days exclude Rome?
St Justin, of Rome 6/1
Confession of St Peter 1/18
St Gregory,the Great 3/12
Pope John XXIII 6/2
St Peter and St Paul 7/29
St Clement, Bishop 11/23
 
JonNC said:
Funny thing is I had a camp experience similar to this. Short version is I was isolated at camp away from any Lutheran church, and with the only other option being Presbyterian, I asked the Catholic priest who regularly held mass at the camp. Father “D” was a wonderful man, and I am forever grateful to him.

Why, Steve, do you say that a priest would not bother the bishop? Would he typically just go ahead and allow the Lutheran to receive, or would he typically refuse?

Jon
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It is not untypical to have non-Catholics desire to receive communion at a Catholic Mass. I have seen it on many occasions (and they have been refused on each and every occasion). It isn’t a standard policy for the bishop to decide each one of these cases, as if each case might have different merit. If the bishop were to take each of these under advisement throughout his entire diocese he would be doing little else. So yes, the priest should follow canon law in this matter and not bother the bishop.
 
JonNC said:
Funny thing is I had a camp experience similar to this. Short version is I was isolated at camp away from any Lutheran church, and with the only other option being Presbyterian, I asked the Catholic priest who regularly held mass at the camp. Father “D” was a wonderful man, and I am forever grateful to him.

Jon
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I would be interested in knowing more about your views on communion here.

Would you, as a Lutheran consider a Presbyterian communion service valid? Are there other congregations that have valid/invalid sacraments?

Does your denomination allow members to partake in other churches if offered?

How did you square the differences of theology between the catholic and Lutheran mass in your conscience with partaking?

Can a Lutheran (or any other protestant) really in good conscience partake in a catholic mass, whether invited or not, when they disbelieve in the propitiatory nature of the mass and the adoration of the host?

Personally I can’t see how. Either the Eucharist IS literally turned into Christ at consecration and therefore worthy of worship (for to fail to worship Christ is surely sin) or the bread and wine remain bread and wine (whether we interpret it this as Christ present in with and under the elements; spiritually present with the elements, or purely symbolic) and therefore to worship the elements as God is idolatry.

These two broad views of the elements are mutually contradictory and therefore one must choose one view and damn the other
 
MaryT777 said:
I highly doubt there are too many Confessional Lutherans approaching a priest to receive Holy Communion.

The conversation between that priest and the person would be confidential.
Priests don’t talk about those types of private issues publicly.
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That’s the whole point. LCMS parishes removing mandatory closed communion statement in the bulletin. Admittedly there are parishes where confession is offered 30 minutes before Mass. Most pastors are preparing the Divine Service
 
Jon,
Did you need the permission from the LCMS Pastor to receive in a Catholic Church or
is that fine with your LCMS Pastor if the priest says it’s fine with him given your discussion.

I just wondered because I do believe you approached the Pastor when you were ELCA to obtain his permission to receive in the LCMS Church, so I wondered the above.

Mary.
 
EvangelCatholic said:
That’s the whole point. LCMS parishes removing mandatory closed communion statement in the bulletin. Admittedly there are parishes where confession is offered 30 minutes before Mass. Most pastors are preparing the Divine Service
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Then how is it we have an article where someone knows or states the Archbishop allowed a Lutheran to Commune. That should be between the person and the priest. I also don’t believe it quite frankly.
 
I heard an ole saying that anyone non Catholic that receives Holy Communion in a Catholic Church will convert Catholic someday. 🙂
 
Lutherans may believe in the Real Presence, but they do not share Catholic beliefs. Lutherans are Protestants. The Catholic Church only allows members of churches who have valid sacraments to communion at Catholic churches. A good example would be the Orthodox. I believe the Church allows Polish National Catholics to commune, although I could be wrong.

Note that Lutherans believe in consubstantiation, not transubstantiation.

God Bless. :highprayer:
 
JonNC said:
Not in terms of the nature of the sacrament - the real presence, but as you say, in terms of the episcopacy. I was initially responding to your comment about a “remembrance”.

Jon
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While it certainly is a remembrance, this is clearly not its primary purpose. But, even consubstantiation (as a process) is under question.
 
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