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EvangelCatholic
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What is concerning is that some posters actually go against the Papacy. Is that selective infallibility?
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LauraThomson
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The Sacrament of Holy Communion is only for souls that are in a “state of grace,” under the Holy See of the Catholic Church. One can only be in a “state of grace” if free from mortal sin, which requires sacramental confession from a Catholic priest. I would not want to receives the Sacred Body, Precious Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord in the state of mortal sin nor would I ever pretend to receive him in any other Church. Jesus only becomes truly present under the species of bread and wine in the Catholic Church. Everything else is just relativism.
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Michael57
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How so? I asked some questions. I’m really trying to see your point here, but I’m not sure what it is. Do you not see the issue that I am discussing about the article? I think there’s a real moral issue there.You’ve said a mouthful, about yourself.
And why post something about a woman’s ordination? Are you really trying to discuss communion between Lutherans and Catholics?
Or are you saying that it’s all just a wash and we should just come together regardless of label or theology? And that a Lutheran Minister receiving Catholic Eucharist any time he chooses is no big deal?
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Bballer32
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I came across this article and read through it carefully and i saw this fairly recent post and got confused. Can you explain to me what you mean by this?
God Bless and Mary pray for us!
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joe371
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I am not sure why a practising Christian belonging to the Lutheran Church would want to take communion at a Catholic Mass? Some of my family members are Lutheran and they won’t. If a Lutheran is willing to believe and receive communion then why not just take it a step further and join?
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Corki
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I don’t think you understand how the Church works. The rules about who can be admitted come from canon law. The posters here who are saying it should not be done (Lutherans receiving Communion in a Catholic Mass) are following canon law. Canon law is promulgated by the Pope. So, it is impossible to be going against the Pope by following canon law.
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RyanBlack
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There are multiple incorrect assertions in this post. The Sacrament of Holy Communion is for souls in a state of grace not only in the Catholic Church, but in the Assyrian Church of the East, the Oriental Orthodox Churches, and the Eastern Orthodox Churches. Furthermore, the Assyrian Church of the East, the Oriental Orthodox Churches, and the Eastern Orthodox Churches all have valid sacramental confession. Finally, in the Assyrian Church of the East, the Oriental Orthodox Churches, and the Eastern Orthodox Churches, Jesus becomes truly present under the species of bread and wine. All of this is taught by the Catholic Church herself.
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catholicmom2010
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The difficulty is in your analogy here. The Eucharist is much more than a gathering at a meal. It is a personal intimate union of the person receiving communion with our Lord, Jesus. Tim Staples spoke of it as more like an intimate marital relationship. Jesus describes Himself as the bridegroom and his Church as the bride. Those bound to Him sacramentally through the Eucharist participate intimately with Him by receiving Him into our body at Communion. We become one flesh at that moment. You wouldn’t invite your mother-in-law to your marriage bed.
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hn160
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I fully agree with you. The Catholic Church says that non-Catholics can not take communion because of not being one in doctrine and the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod says the same thing about non-LC-MS Christians.
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EvangelCatholic
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Anecdotal examples of Lutherans communing with Catholics are widespread. That is essentially what the Lutheran pastor is chronicling in the story at the start of this thread. I understand that this procedure is not the norm and contrary to historic precautions. Any discussion of “open communion” also implies “full communion” such as is practiced between both American and European Lutherans and Anglicans/ Episcopalians.
Eucharistic hospitality mean that the blessed Sacrament is available to all who are baptized and believe that Christ’s actual bodily mystical presence is adored in the Mass and eaten for life-given salvation and forgiveness of sins.
Coinciding with the anecdotal references, I have offered additional current developments within both the Roman Catholic and Lutheran church where agreement about the Mass may very well mean ‘euchartistic hospitality” between these two historic branches of the Church Catholic.
My dismay, however, is that some posters treat this discussion in an almost hostile manner that would suggest that they are not in agreement with the Catholic/ Lutheran accords.
That is why I have raised the question? Is there a possibility of intercommunion between Catholics and Lutherans at the 500th anniversary of the Reformation, as proposed by LWF Bishop Younan to Pope Benedict several years ago?
christiancentury.org/article/2013-06/lutherans-and-catholics-bury-hatchet-reformation-s-500th
Eucharistic hospitality mean that the blessed Sacrament is available to all who are baptized and believe that Christ’s actual bodily mystical presence is adored in the Mass and eaten for life-given salvation and forgiveness of sins.
Coinciding with the anecdotal references, I have offered additional current developments within both the Roman Catholic and Lutheran church where agreement about the Mass may very well mean ‘euchartistic hospitality” between these two historic branches of the Church Catholic.
My dismay, however, is that some posters treat this discussion in an almost hostile manner that would suggest that they are not in agreement with the Catholic/ Lutheran accords.
That is why I have raised the question? Is there a possibility of intercommunion between Catholics and Lutherans at the 500th anniversary of the Reformation, as proposed by LWF Bishop Younan to Pope Benedict several years ago?
christiancentury.org/article/2013-06/lutherans-and-catholics-bury-hatchet-reformation-s-500th
And sadly, unless there are dramatic changes in doctrinal agreements between now and then, the answer is no. Will there be joint events ? Certainly. But I see no evidence that Eucharistic hospitality is in the mix for 2017.
Jon
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MaryT777
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I think part of the issue is this thread has gotten on a few different tangents.
The Catholic Lutheran accords do not state that now Lutherans may Commune in
a Catholic Church. The JDDJ was regarding justification. I posted the statement from the Vatican stating this is to in no way mean the Catholic Church has extended an invitation based on that document for Lutherans to Commune in our Church.
Catholics take the sacrament of Holy Communion very seriously. I have to disagree any poster has been hostile in this thread. They are just discussing their point of view from the article posted and trying to understand WHY a Lutheran would want to Commune in a Catholic Church to begin with.
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MaryT777
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I agree Jon. We’re not even on the same page regarding justification yet with the LCMS.
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Isaiah45_9
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There is no such thing as Eucharistic hospitality.
Paul says here:
*1 Corinthians 11:27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. 32 Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world.
33 So then, my brothers and sisters, when you gather to eat, you should all eat together. 34 Anyone who is hungry should eat something at home, so that when you meet together it may not result in judgment.
And when I come I will give further directions.*
I have already given you the actual practice of the Church as witnessed by Justin Martyr and Ignatius of Antioch. Further, you have failed to demonstrate how the Catholic Church actually decreed that it is acceptable for Lutherans (Or any other group from the Reformation) to receive the Eucharist in the Catholic Church.
False. There is no hostility, being steadfast and firm in the actual teaching of the Catholic Church has nothing to do with being hostile. That you feel it is hostile, is a different matter. Mainly because you have refused to acknowledge the facts and completely ignore some of the questions asked to you in return.
How exactly are these posters not in agreement?
Please don’t answer in the same exact way you did when I asked to show how the Lutheran Bishop was ordained under Apostolic Succession, when you just gave me their names…
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MaryT777
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EvangelCatholic
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I won’t belabor the point of hostility; after seeing the fireworks between Christians on Lutheran forums makes Catholics Answers look tame. I know the discussion of theology can bring out the best and worse in some Christians ironically. My good family members and friends who are Catholic would be shocked by some of the comments, nonetheless.
Lutherans believe in Apostolic Succession just like Anglicans. Where the practice has fallen by the wayside in America, it is being re-instated by having all Lutheran seminarians ordained by someone who has also been ordained by those with Apostolic Succession. How this has been handled in the U.S. is that bishops from Sweden, Finland, Estonia, etc. [where there is no break in the AS, btw], lay hands on newly ordained and installed priests and bishops in the ELCA. Also, Lutherans recognized the AS of the Anglican church so an Episcopal bishop may participate in Lutheran ceremonies .
While I share the hope with EC that this day is coming, I think it is wishful thinking and imaginative inferencing to say that that day has already come. The fact is that, today, there is no official agreement for Eucharistic hospitality between our communions, nor is there one in the offing.
Lutherans take it seriously, too. That’s why when hospitality comes, it must be done right. In the meantime, my pastor brought me communion at the hospital a couple of days after my surgery. So powerful was His presence, His body and blood. Amen.
Jon
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Isaiah45_9
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How exactly, after separating from the Catholic Church, did the Lutheran Church keep validly ordained Bishops? The line broke when they left the Church and they fell into apostasy. Only those in the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Oriental Orthodox Church have preserved Apostolic Succession, if you are not in communion with any of these Churches, you have no Apostolic Succession.
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EvangelCatholic
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That is clearly your opinion. Many Christians disagree. For Lutherans, Apostolic Succession is a preferred arrangement but it is not mandated by Scripture. The emphasis on the Real Presence is the focus.
I don’t think the CC has ever accused us of apostasy, quite honesty, but to answer your question, 2 points;
- in parts of northern Europe, Bishops did in fact become Lutheran and brought their lines with them.
- the confessions explain in detail that valid ordination does not necessarily require ordination by a bishop, that presbyter ordination has, in fact, been used by the CC in the past. With a precedent set, our presbyter ordinations are valid by divine law, and the practice of the Church.
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