Why Can't Anyone Have A Different Opinion About The Holocaust?

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  1. The Civil War was fought to free the slaves
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“Actually, there were numerous causes. Aside from the obvious schism between the abolitionists and the anti-abolitionists, there were economic factors, both domestic and inter– [Proctor: “Just say slavery.”] Slavery it is, sir.”
  • Apu Nahasapeemapetilon
 
I hadn’t read any scholar on the Civil War ascribe the war to economic causes. Typically those are listed under why the South lost.

“Slavery, said Alexander H. Stephens in his most quoted line, was the cornerstone of the Confederacy. It was the institution that the Confederacy had been created to protect …” Reid Mitchell, “The Perserverance of the Soldiers,” in Why the Confederacy Lost, edited by Gabor S. Boritt, (OUP, 1992): 129.
 
djconklin said:
No. What did I accuse you of???

Opinions are disagreements, say about whether certain clothing makes you look fat, of if a certain color looks good on you. But, to deny the Holocaust as the nut-job in Iran does or to deny that Jews were gassed, or that only 300k were killed* is a lie. Now, when the “bishop” stated the “expert opinion” of a Holocaust denier that one had to have a tall chimney that could qualify him as being “ignorant” (to use your term).** OTOH, if it could be shown that he knows anything about chimney’s then he is beyond that.
  • To me that alone qualified him as being stupid (he also denied that Jews were gassed–did you watch the video?). The facts are quite clear: over 6 million, Jews, Catholic, Protestants, gypsies, critics of the regime, labor union leaders, communists, mentally ill, and disabled people were murdered by the Nazi’s. No if, no and, no buts.
** This ranked right up there with Rush Limbaugh’s claim that there are more trees in America now than when Columbus landed. And when he got caught on that lie he blamed it on someone else–i.e., he wasn’t bright enough to know he was lied to.
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You didn’t get to accuse me of anything - because I pointed out that I of course too accept the Holocaust as the fact that it is.

I say again:
1: Disagreement on matters of history does not make people stupid. It makes them, at worst, ignorant.
2: To claim that the Holocaust did not take place, or that no gassings took place is obviously not true. The question, however, of whether or not it’s a lie depends, I would say, on whether or not the speaker/writer knows it it to be false. One does not “lie” if one says something one believes to be true, even if what is said is false. In that case, one has merely said “something that wasn’t true”.

I’m not going to go into your emotional rhetoric - only establish the facts.

I would vehemently defend the Bishop’s right to utter his opinion, no matter how wrong or misguided I think they are.

“Sir! I find your opinion offensive! But I am willing to die for your right to state it”
-Voltaire.
 
LutheranDK said:
1: Disagreement on matters of history does not make people stupid. It makes them, at worst, ignorant.
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I think sometimes it goes beyond simple ignorance.
LutheranDK said:
I would vehemently defend the Bishop’s right to utter his opinion, no matter how wrong or misguided I think they are.
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I quite agree. But, for me, the issue with Williamson is that the SSPX needs to decide whether they want to “go down” with him or not. (I would say “whether they want to go down with the ship” but that would be a serious overstatement of Williamson’s importance to the SSPX.)
 
You didn’t get to accuse me of anything - because I pointed out that I of course too accept the Holocaust as the fact that it is.
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Ah, good! I thought I had made a mirtake.
I say again:
1: Disagreement on matters of history does not make people stupid. It makes them, at worst, ignorant.
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If you were ignorant ab’t what happened on, say the Bataan Death March, that would be one thing. But, to claim, say that the Japaese soldiers were benovolent guards, that’s not ignorance–that’s sheer stupidity. In the case of Williamson, he denies that millions of Jews were killed (he claims only ab’t 300k). That’s not mere ignorance (which would be excusable).
2: To claim that the Holocaust did not take place, or that no gassings took place is obviously not true. The question, however, of whether or not it’s a lie depends, I would say, on whether or not the speaker/writer knows it it to be false.
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I have come to the same realisation on another subject.
One does not “lie” if one says something one believes to be true, even if what is said is false. In that case, one has merely said “something that wasn’t true”.
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That would be true if one could reasonably claim a lack of knowledge in the field. In Williamson’s case however, he is familiar with a Holocaust denier who he protrayed as an expert.
I’m not going to go into your emotional rhetoric - only establish the facts.
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What “emotional rhetoric”?
I would vehemently
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Now that is emotional.
defend the Bishop’s right to utter his opinion, no matter how wrong or misguided I think they are.
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Opinions yes, errors of simple, basic facts that any reasonable person knows to be false, no.
“Sir! I find your opinion offensive! But I am willing to die for your right to state it”
-Voltaire.
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Opinions, yes. Now, say Rev. Wright’s “___damn America”, he should be taken out back for a beat down [that’s Irish-German emotional–we don’t waste time on rhetoric! :eek:], since he should know the Bible well enough to know that Christ’s kingdom is not of this world. Ditto with Williamson. He makes Christianity in general, and Catholics in particular, look like a bunch of blithering idiots.
 
djconklin said:
Opinions, yes. Now, say Rev. Wright’s “___damn America”, he should be taken out back for a beat down [that’s Irish-German emotional–we don’t waste time on rhetoric! :eek:], since he should know the Bible well enough to know that Christ’s kingdom is not of this world. Ditto with Williamson.
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Yes, I guess you could say that Williamson is the SSPX’s “Reverend Wright”. 😉
djconklin said:
He makes Christianity in general, and Catholics in particular, look like a bunch of blithering idiots.
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Are you talking about Wright or Williamson? Either way I don’t follow your logic, since neither of them are Catholic. :ehh:
 
Williamson is the man who was made Bishop and then excommunicated and then recently accepted back into the Catholic church by the Pope who has just issued (an encyclical?) telling his staff to check the Internet more carefully next time (among other things). I used Wright as a similar case of someone who knew better, but still said something quite stupid.
 
djconklin said:
Williamson is the man who was made Bishop and then excommunicated and then recently accepted back into the Catholic church by the Pope
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The excommunication has been lifted, but Williamson (and the other SSPX bishops) are still not in full communion with the RCC.
 
Peter_J said:
The excommunication has been lifted, but Williamson (and the other SSPX bishops) are still not in full communion with the RCC.
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Williamson was till the news broke. Now he is not in full communion.​

Interesting web sites about the gassing at Dachau which the 1st video denies:

nizkor.org/hweb/camps/dachau/gas-chamber.html

scrapbookpages.com/Dachauscrapbook/GasChamber/gaschamber.html

holocaust-history.org/dachau-gas-chambers/photo.cgi?30

Some of the dead (gruesome!):

holocaust-history.org/dachau-gas-chambers/photo.cgi?44
holocaust-history.org/dachau-gas-chambers/photo.cgi?45
holocaust-history.org/dachau-gas-chambers/photo.cgi?42

The deniers try to claim that the Zyklon-B (cyanide) was used for delousing–you wouldn’t use cyanide on lice because it takes more than it would to kill a human and it takes longer–so if you stuff someone in a room to expose them to cyanide to kill the lice, then you’ve killed the person:

“HCN is much more effective on warm-blooded animals, including humans, than it is on insects. The exposure period (to HCN) is much greater in delousing operations than in homicidal gassings. This means that a much lower concentration is necessary to kill people than to get rid of lice, etc. In delousing, concentrations of up to 16,000 ppm (parts per million) are sometimes used, and exposure time can be up to 72 hours; while 300 ppm will kill people in fifteen minutes or so.” From nizkor.org/faqs/auschwitz/auschwitz-faq-06.html
 
At the beginning of the Nazi era in 1933 there were 18 million Jews and at the end of the Shoah in 1945 there were only 12 million Jews. Now if indeed the Shoah was a myth, we are going to have to ask everyone who took a Jew between 1933 - 1945 to please return them as soon as possible to a near by Jewish community center or Synagogue.
 
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