Why Can't Anyone Have A Different Opinion About The Holocaust?

[R_not]

That is because not everyone derails every thread in an anti-Islamic direction.

YOu can call it what you want. You don’t like the facts and so are bashing the facts with nothing to counter them.

Are you afraid of the sources that I post? Are you afraid to read a few books to see how Hitler was encouraged to do what he did?

Icon of Evil
Fascism and Paganism: A brief comparison of Nazism, Communism and Islam

The Title of this thread is ‘Why Can’t Anyone Have A Different Opinion About The Holocaust?’ and you, and people like you, are the reason why people cannot have a different opinion. You say I derail the commonly known facts. The author thinks it was because there were Catholics who were targeted.

I say prove whatever point - but prove it.

And then you come along, you have your prejudices and you won’t/haven’t read and you just pipe up inserting your prejudices onto me. You have no facts to dispute what I assert, you only have a one line sentence in an attempt to bash me.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

YOu can call it what you want. You don’t like the facts and so are bashing the facts with nothing to counter them.

Are you afraid of the sources that I post? Are you afraid to read a few books to see how Hitler was encouraged to do what he did?

Icon of Evil
Fascism and Paganism: A brief comparison of Nazism, Communism and Islam

The Title of this thread is ‘Why Can’t Anyone Have A Different Opinion About The Holocaust?’ and you, and people like you, are the reason why people cannot have a different opinion. You say I derail the commonly known facts. The author thinks it was because there were Catholics who were targeted.

I say prove whatever point - but prove it.

And then you come along, you have your prejudices and you won’t/haven’t read and you just pipe up inserting your prejudices onto me. You have no facts to dispute what I assert, you only have a one line sentence in an attempt to bash me.

Catholics WERE targeted, and STILL ARE targeted today.

 

[R_not]

Catholics WERE targeted, and STILL ARE targeted today.

I tried to bring that out when I mentioned the Armenians. I am sorry, I generalized and termed it ‘Christians’. But, of the other about 4 million people that Hitler targeted most were because they were gay or disabled. And there were clergy included in that number too.

Can you post where specifically Catholics were targeted. In the books that I read they usually only mention ‘Christian’. And I look at any Christian as a Christian - not only the Catholics. Sorry, but that is the way I see it when any Christian is targeted just because they believe in Jesus. Denominations mean so little to me then when they are dying for Jesus.

But, show me your sources and believe me - I will be happy to read them.

And yes, I do think they are targeted now in our secularist/muslim environment. But, in Muslim countries they target any non-muslim and any denomination of Christian. We have the news only obsessing about the Israelis and even then they only mention them in a bad light when they defend themselves. Notice the silence when hamas started lobbing bombs into Israel again this week. I haven’t heard a peep out of any muslim, alphabet soup news organization or anything about it.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

I tried to bring that out when I mentioned the Armenians. I am sorry, I generalized and termed it ‘Christians’. But, of the other about 4 million people that Hitler targeted most were because they were gay or disabled. And there were clergy included in that number too.

Can you post where specifically Catholics were targeted. In the books that I read they usually only mention ‘Christian’. And I look at any Christian as a Christian - not only the Catholics. Sorry, but that is the way I see it when any Christian is targeted just because they believe in Jesus. Denominations mean so little to me then when they are dying for Jesus.

But, show me your sources and believe me - I will be happy to read them.

There were not only Catholics, but non-Catholic Christians as well. But the Catholics are always being targeted for their beliefs. Maybe it’s because we have so many more missionaries all over the world…who knows.

 

[Peter_J]

Another factor, and one that the Holy Father is pointing out, is that when one holds themselves out as a cleric of the Church, their opinion is no longer their own. In the interview, AB Williamson was wearing his clerical attire. Most organizations do not allow opinions to flow freely when done in an official capacity.

To me, the AB’s statement wouldn’t be acceptable even if he hadn’t been in clerical attire.

Let me put it this way: if a bishop said “I believe in 4 persons in God”, wouldn’t that make him a heretic regardless of how he was dressed at the time?

 

[sedonaman]

I would like to know why people cannot have a different opinion about the Holocaust without being condemned for it.

For the same reason that people can’t have a different opinion on 2+2=4 without being ridiculed.

Is history now to be a matter of opinion instead of the study of actual historical events?

“When I use a word, . . . it means precisely what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.” – Humpty Dumpty

 

[Peter_J]

On a (loosely) related note, this morning I decided to take a quick look at the facts about laws against Holocaust denial (kind of a strange concept for me, as an American). I thought this part shed a little light on it:

Additionally, scholars have pointed out that countries that specifically ban Holocaust denial generally have legal systems that limit speech in other ways, such as banning hate speech. In the words of D. Guttenplan, this is a split between the “common law countries of the United States, Ireland and many British Commonwealth, countries from the civil law countries of continental Europe and Scotland. In civil law countries the law is generally more proscriptive. Also under the civil law regime the judge acts more as an inquisitor, gathering and presenting evidence as well as interpreting it”.[1]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial

 

[GKC]

Luke I would never put you on ignore…what were your questions again?

How about this question?

Originally Posted by OneTrueCathApos

“No Lily, he said there weren’t that many gas chambers, he didn’t say there weren’t any. I don’t know why he would say these things if he didn’t have any evidence to it. The Jewish couple who lied and said they were there when they weren’t, only makes matters worse.”

Are you quite sure that WiIliamson didn’t say “I believe that the historical evidence, the historical evidence is strongly against, is hugely against six million Jews having been deliberately gassed in gas chambers as a deliberate policy of Adolph Hitler… I believe there were no gas chambers… I think 200,000 to 300,000 Jews perished in concentration camps, but not one of them by gassing in a gas chamber… If anti-Semitism is bad, it’s against truth. But, if something is true, it’s not bad…”

GKC

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

How about this question?

Originally Posted by OneTrueCathApos

“No Lily, he said there weren’t that many gas chambers, he didn’t say there weren’t any. I don’t know why he would say these things if he didn’t have any evidence to it. The Jewish couple who lied and said they were there when they weren’t, only makes matters worse.”

Are you quite sure that WiIliamson didn’t say “I believe that the historical evidence, the historical evidence is strongly against, is hugely against six million Jews having been deliberately gassed in gas chambers as a deliberate policy of Adolph Hitler… I believe there were no gas chambers… I think 200,000 to 300,000 Jews perished in concentration camps, but not one of them by gassing in a gas chamber… If anti-Semitism is bad, it’s against truth. But, if something is true, it’s not bad…”

GKC

I have different information.

 

[GKC]

I have different information.

No doubt.

Have you seen the video of him, making his statement? He states those words less than one minute into it. It’s easily findable. Want a link?

GKC

 

[R_not]

How about this question?

Originally Posted by OneTrueCathApos

“No Lily, he said there weren’t that many gas chambers, he didn’t say there weren’t any. I don’t know why he would say these things if he didn’t have any evidence to it. The Jewish couple who lied and said they were there when they weren’t, only makes matters worse.”

Are you quite sure that WiIliamson didn’t say “I believe that the historical evidence, the historical evidence is strongly against, is hugely against six million Jews having been deliberately gassed in gas chambers as a deliberate policy of Adolph Hitler… I believe there were no gas chambers… I think 200,000 to 300,000 Jews perished in concentration camps, but not one of them by gassing in a gas chamber… If anti-Semitism is bad, it’s against truth. But, if something is true, it’s not bad…”

GKC

Fortunately, the Germans were obsessive about documenting what they did to whom. I found where there is a reference to the numbers of Jews ‘processed’.

 

[pnewton]

I have different information.

Your information is inaccurate. It is kind of a parallel to this whole conversation. Can one have an opinion that is proveable false?

youtube.com/watch?v=k6C9BuXe2RM

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

No doubt.

Have you seen the video of him, making his statement? He states those words less than one minute into it. It’s easily findable. Want a link?

GKC

What is your problem?

 

[R_not]

Your information is inaccurate. It is kind of a parallel to this whole conversation. Can one have an opinion that is proveable false?

youtube.com/watch?v=k6C9BuXe2RM

SS statistics

That guy on your link is denying a lot of people who were given trials and told what happened, the Nazis own statistics.

The Final Solution

I would say that you have not proven your case.

 

[R_not]

What is your problem?

denial, ignorance, fear of finding out the real truth, and just obstinate behavior could also be involved.

I can’t believe it myself. I also need to add that it is also anti-semitism on all these people’s parts - even the Bishop on that video. I wonder what they think of the rest of the 4 million who were killed. They don’t even mention them!

Sometimes our own clergy just make me ashamed. It reminds me of the bold hatred of Fr. Flagher during the Obama run for Presidency.

This is why we need to think for ourselves. Our clergy are for the most part very, good people - but blind obedience is not warrented when they exibit poor behavior!

 

[spoiltvictorian]

I’ve been thinking about this. I see two wicked, seemingly contradictory forces that work to the same end: more murder and despair.

#1. Anyone who questions the Holocaust numbers is ridiculed by progressives and taken as proof that conservative Christians are fascist rascsts who don’t deserve say or freedoms.

#2. Anyone who points out that socialism leads to the Holocaust is ridiculed by Progressives for not caring about kittens and poor people.

Now, I think about history, and how the Russian communists and the National Socialist party used the excesses of the current government to justify their own, and then murdered so many more people. It seems that this will happen again, because modern progressives insist that the past was horrific and that only socialism can fix it. We know what happens next. Pray to God it is not, once again, an order of magnitude greater than the previous regime (who already murders 1MM unborn babies a year in the USA.)

So although those who question the Holocaust numbers are wrong, it might end up being one of those “those who are not against us are for us” situations when things get really bad.

 

[GKC]

What is your problem?

I have no particular problem, though I recognise your’s.

Bishop Williamson says, less than one minute into a slightly less than 6 min. video, that he doesn’t believe there were any gas chambers and that no Jew died in a gas chamber, at all. He repeats it (no Jews died in gas chambers), about 1:43 seconds into the clip, and does so again, before the end. No gas chambers, says the bishop. And no Jew died by gassing.

I seem to see you denying that he said that, based on “other information”. And also claiming he said that there were not as many gas chambers, in another of your posts. So, do you accept that he said what I quoted him as saying? Or do you deny it? The clip is easy to find.

GKC

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

denial, ignorance, fear of finding out the real truth, and just obstinate behavior could also be involved.

I can’t believe it myself. I also need to add that it is also anti-semitism on all these people’s parts - even the Bishop on that video. I wonder what they think of the rest of the 4 million who were killed. They don’t even mention them!

Sometimes our own clergy just make me ashamed. It reminds me of the bold hatred of Fr. Flagher during the Obama run for Presidency.

This is why we need to think for ourselves. Our clergy are for the most part very, good people - but blind obedience is not warrented when they exibit poor behavior!

Yes, I agree, but it is only a few people who ruin it for the rest. Still the priests are the umbilical cord to God and they sacrificed their lives for Him.
The devil gains the power over priests and consecrated souls. There is a diabolical disorientation infecting the upper hierarchy.

 

[R_not]

I have no particular problem, though I recognise your’s.

Bishop Williamson says, less than one minute into a slightly less than 6 min. video, that he doesn’t believe there were any gas chambers and that no Jew died in a gas chamber, at all. He repeats it (no Jews died in gas chambers), about 1:43 seconds into the clip, and does so again, before the end. No gas chambers, says the bishop. And no Jew died by gassing.

I seem to see you denying that he said that, based on “other information”. And also claiming he said that there were not as many gas chambers, in another of your posts. So, do you accept that he said what I quoted him as saying? Or do you deny it? The clip is easy to find.

GKC

I can say that ‘yes’ he does say that. And he is not one that I rely on for any historical issues. And now, even less would I rely on him for any historical issues.

He starts by saying, ‘I believe…’ and to be quite frank - the statistics of the holocaust are not a belief system.

He is deluded and I would say that I find it incredible that people use him as a source to prove their historical points.

 

[sedonaman]

denial, ignorance, fear of finding out the real truth, and just obstinate behavior could also be involved.

The whole notion is just one more attack on truth. Get enough chattering heads to deny an historical event, and thus create “controversy”, and you will get them to believe anything and know nothing.

Chalk one more up for relativism.