T
TheAtheist
Guest
Mind if the Peanut Gallery gives a comment.
Full disclosures as usual: Non-Western scientist, pragmatic atheist with no historical or familial connections to Christianity (ie: I’m not saddled with the psychological mental baggage that characterizes New Atheists…in fact i find that bit all rather silly to be honest).
In other words Ben - i’m the Man from Mars, no dogma to uphold, no “horse in the race” so to speak.
But given the statement above, I feel compelled to answer in a way that might clarify a point or two. Namely the whole “engaging in something so wholly evil that they themselves must ipso facto be evil.”
Doesn’t it really depend on the flavor of Catholic you are talking about at the end of the day?
1.) Some are going to see this as a man-made rules violation. They will interpret it from a historical perspective, citing the fact that the organization you belong to had a negative impact on their group - depending on the context (which country), as Freemasonry from my understanding varied a lot in goals/ambitions from place to place.
And although those actions took place in a different time and a different continent, there’s still baggage that can’t simply be thrown out - old unresolved history that the person for whatever reason still feels connected to.
Not quite “ipso facto evil”, for I doubt such people will equate belonging to Freemasonry as being the equivalent of say a pedophile or a mass murderer, but still there is an objectionable quality due to actions committed.
2.) Some are going to take this as a violation of Ethic. This usually circulates around the idea that Freemasonry’s perspective of “equivalency” between Catholicism and other religions is inherently false.
Which makes me wonder of course - Do they also then withold their children from participating in an organization such as the Boy Scouts of America? BSA excludes atheists and agnostics such as myself, but you will find a number of Hindus, Muslims, Jews, and Buddhists within its ranks - and they at least theoretically are not given any sort of “second class” status for not professing faith in Jesus of Nazareth or in any particular Christian denomination.
I’ve brought this up with my friends who fall into the Vatican II tradition and are active members of the Catholic Church (lay Franciscans for instance, Jesuits, etc.) After much consideration and discussion with their fellows/spiritual directors/whatever, the general response I got back was something to the effect of
“Well, its a little sticky with the BSA since they do have a kind of commitment to religious ethic. But taking an “equivalent” organization likes Kiwanis for instance, which has no political or religious affiliation and therefore hasn’t made a sweeping judgment about the status of religion in general - we would uphold them in contrast with Freemasonry.”
the point they all seem to be driving home is that while secular or public organizations can/do make statements of equivalency in terms of treatment toward various religious organizations - Freemasonry does the same…with Ritual.
And that’s the thing that bothers them alot, esp. for Catholics who are really big on ritual.
Although most modern American Freemasons i’ve spoken to treat the rituals you perform in the same manner that one a Fraternity pledge in college, taht perspective does not gel well with the Catholic interpretation - Rituals mean something to them in a manner that most other Post-Methodist protestant sects wouldn’t find disconcerting.
A step closer to “ipso facto evil,” but not quite yet…
3.) And some will take Freemasonry to be the Fifth Column of the Devil.
Yes Ben - you are the Pawn of their Adversary and don’t even know it. That or you are lying to the forum and do engage in unwholesome and unspeakable acts that are essentially a regurgitation of accusations hurled at Medieval Judaism (you eat babies, you make pacts with the Devil, etc.)
ie: You are Ipso Facto Evil.
Now the vast majority of Catholics I have ever met in my whole entire life and who may agree with either points 1 or 2 above…generally step away from 3.
Its one thing to say that belonging to Freemasonry is discordant with religious beliefs of an organization. Quite another to inherently agree to a type of Freemasonry that seems more plausible in the world according to Dan Brown for instance.
And yet there are those Catholics who will still see you as a cog in some sort of grand conspiracy-esque rendition of events.
their “evidence” for such ideas are highly variable and more often than not cannot be corroborated.