Why can't Catholics get married outdoors?

[Lycorth]

For obvious reasons…if the Bible claimed itself to be authoritative, God’s word be committing the fallacy of circular reasoning, so yes, there’s a good reason why the Bible itself doesn’t declare it to be authoritative, because it would be self-defeating.

One has to read the Bible, and as you ranted on earlier about being guided by the Holy Spirit, pray that the Spirit guides you.

Ironically, that is not even Scriptural, much less logical.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Golly gee whiz is right

Is it that time of the month already?

Is that supposed to be your idea of a rebuttal? Well, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, thinking that perhaps you were willing to debate reasonably, especially since you were finding fault all over the place with people’s logic.

And now, you come out with the kind of juvenile remark that attempts to dismiss and denigrate me into a ‘PMS’ case.

I don’t play silly games. I doubt you’ll be around much longer with this type of attitude. You don’t appear to want to do anything other than name-call. How sad. I’ll pray for you.

 

[Danny_Clover]

Have you looked into what the Bible says about what is the authority for a Christian? Hint: It’s not the Bible itself. It is the Church --the pillar and foundation of truth.

Yes, actually I have. It’s the Bible. The church is only the pillar and foundation of truth because it is charged with proclaiming and defending the Gospel, not because it has intrinsic authority apart from the Word of God.

 

[former_Catholic]

People please… God is everywhere and God is listening!
It is a very simple matter.
In the Catholic Church, a marriage ceremony is a public ceremony to which everyone in the Catholic Community is invited merely by virtue of being members of the Catholic community. They may not come of course, but it is a community religious celebration that everyone is invited to witness and pray and bless and hug their spouses and children and personally strengthen their own marriages and renew their own vows along with the happy couple…
and so of course it is always held in the dedicated meeting place of the community.
If it were held anywhere else, everyone would recognize it as a “private” event that the greater community was not invited to attend; it would not be recognized as an official community celebration of the entire community.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Yes, actually I have. It’s the Bible. The church is only the pillar and foundation of truth because it is charged with proclaiming and defending the Gospel, not because it has intrinsic authority apart from the Word of God.

That’s your opinion, and that’s fine for your church; it can decide as it chooses. However, there is nothing in Scripture that says that wedding ceremonies need to be held outdoors simply because Scripture says nothing against them being outside. It really does not say whether weddings are indoor or outdoor at all. It is not ‘anti-BIblical’ to hold weddings indoors as the norm. In fact, the Jewish people of the time did not appear to hold outdoor weddings either.

 

[Danny_Clover]

For obvious reasons…if the Bible claimed itself to be authoritative, God’s word be committing the fallacy of circular reasoning, so yes, there’s a good reason why the Bible itself doesn’t declare it to be authoritative, because it would be self-defeating.

Actually, the Bible declares itself to be authoritative pretty much constantly. The passage most people are familiar with is 2 Tim 3.

Of course the Bible can proclaim itself authoritative without committing the fallacy of circular reasoning.

Circular reasoning would only be if the Bible says that it’s authoritative because it’s authoritative.

 

[Lycorth]

Yes, actually I have. It’s the Bible. The church is only the pillar and foundation of truth because it is charged with proclaiming and defending the Gospel, not because it has intrinsic authority apart from the Word of God.

Please cite even just a single verse in the Bible that proves the Bible is supposed to be our penultimate guide.

The Bible was not assembled until the Council of Rome in 382 - over three hundred years after Christ ascended into Heaven. The Church, however, existed for those three hundred plus centuries. It is clear which the Lord thought we needed the most. Why was the Bible not assembled until so long after Christ’s death if the Bible is so absolutely essential for the rank-and-file Christian?

 

[Danny_Clover]

Tantum ergo:

It really does not say whether weddings are indoor or outdoor at all.

Then why do you object to outdoor weddings?

 

[Suspicious_Mind]

Ironically, that is not even Scriptural, much less logical.

What are you on about? It’s not even meant to be scriptural. It’s called common sense.

Do you know of what circular reasoning is? Begging the question? Ring a bell? No? I merely pointed out that his reasoning would imply that Scripture would be committing the fallacy of circular reasoning if it were to claim it was authoritative, it’s self-refuting.

 

[Danny_Clover]

Please cite even just a single verse in the Bible that proves the Bible is supposed to be our penultimate guide.

The Bible was not assembled until the Council of Rome in 382 - over three hundred years after Christ ascended into Heaven. The Church, however, existed for those three hundred plus centuries. It is clear which the Lord thought we needed the most. Why was the Bible not assembled until so long after Christ’s death if the Bible is so absolutely essential for the rank-and-file Christian?

I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but 2/3 of the books that make up the Bible existed even before the church was established, and many of the New Testament books existed as early as 50 and 60 AD.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Then why do you object to outdoor weddings?

Why do you object to them being indoors?

In the Catholic Church, marriages are sacramental. Many Protestant Churches do not recognize them as sacramental. If something is not a sacrament, then it would not need to be done in a holy place. That is why for those Protestant churches where marriage is not a sacrament, the Catholic Church recognizes those marriages as perfectly valid. We don’t insist on those churches for whom marriage is not a sacrament that they ‘make’ them be sacramental.

Again, for us they are sacramental and to be held in a holy space. This was the case ‘way back when’, it is still the case today, for us.

Doesn’t your Church have a right to make decisions for its members? Since the Bible does not flat out state that weddings MUST BE outdoors, do we not have a right to ask that as the norm they be indoors, based on our guidance from the HOLY SPIRIT regarding what is needed for a sacrament and sacred space? We’re not changing the Scripture or ‘depriving’ people.

 

[Suspicious_Mind]

Actually, the Bible declares itself to be authoritative pretty much constantly. The passage most people are familiar with is 2 Tim 3.

Of course the Bible can proclaim itself authoritative without committing the fallacy of circular reasoning.

Circular reasoning would only be if the Bible says that it’s authoritative because it’s authoritative.

Do you mean this verse?

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but 2/3 of the books that make up the Bible existed even before the church was established, and many of the New Testament books existed as early as 50 and 60 AD.

Yes, but during those 3 centuries of the early Church, many other books existed as well, such as the Didache and the Shepherd of Hermes, and were used as the gospel was spread–ORALLY, not ‘in written form’ FOR those 3 centuries. It was the Church under which the canon was made-- Catholic Christians who under the guidance of the Holy Spirit ‘separated out’ that which was infallible and inerrent Scripture from the many other writings, many of which were good and true writing but not God-breathed.

 

[Spencerian]

I’d really like to read more about that. Can you tell me what verses say that weddings that are not in a church are not blessed by God? Is God omniscient, or is God confined to Catholic churches?

I’d really like to know this because we have a chapel out in the woods where my daughter wants to be married.

Hi.

Catholics take the Sacrament of Marriage seriously to the point were aesthetics and personal preferences are left behind, preferring to do as we believe God would will us to do.

While you and your daughter, as fellow Christians, can marry where you wish, it is important to note that God’s presence may exist everywhere, but less so in places where the mindset of the attendees is less on God’s grace and more on the scenery or reception. Distractions lead to a less fuller connection with God.

Catholics don’t make any claim to have a “better” presence of God in their churches than other Christians. But we do insist on giving God His due in the sacrament of matrimony, rather than insisting in asserting our own wills regarding the need for his grace and mercy. Does God actually will us to have a pretty wedding in a pretty location?

And where would that suggestion be in the Bible?

God bless.

 

[Suspicious_Mind]

Why do you object to them being indoors?

Who objected to it being indoors?

 

[Danny_Clover]

Tantum ergo:

Why do you object to them being indoors?

When did I ever object to weddings being held indoors?

Doesn’t your Church have a right to make decisions for its members?

No. Our church isn’t a dictatorship. Unless the church can show that something is either mandated or forbidden by scripture, it’s left up to the individual.

Since the Bible does not flat out state that weddings MUST BE outdoors, do we not have a right to ask that as the norm they be indoors, based on our guidance from the HOLY SPIRIT regarding what is needed for a sacrament and sacred space? We’re not changing the Scripture or ‘depriving’ people.

But how do you know that the Holy Spirit is guiding you unless you have an objective and authoritative standard by which to judge those things you believe the Holy Spirit is telling you?

 

[Danny_Clover]

Who objected to it being indoors?

It’s a strawman. They’re very good at that. In another thread, somebody started whining about how my “argument is illogical”, before I ever even made any kind of argument. I just made a comment and didn’t refer to any Bible verse, and yet, the first thing out of his mouth was about how I was taking scripture out of context.

It’s just a game they play with us poor, ignorant Protestants.

 

[Lycorth]

What are you on about? It’s not even meant to be scriptural. It’s called common sense.

Do you know of what circular reasoning is? Begging the question? Ring a bell? No? I merely pointed out that his reasoning would imply that Scripture would be committing the fallacy of circular reasoning if it were to claim it was authoritative, it’s self-refuting.

How on earth would the Bible having a verse citing that it is the penultimate authority in the Christian’s life be circular? That’s not even remotely logical.

If the Bible containing a verse or injunction about it being the ultimate authority in the Christian’s life is “circular reasoning”, then why believe anything that is in it? You have no reason to, for by this logic, everything in it can be brushed aside with that charge.

Bottom line is that there is no citation in the Bible proving Sola Scriptura because the Bible is not the final authority in our lives. Christ is, and He teaches us through His Church. The Bible is but one of those teachings.

Do you mean this verse?

That only says that the Bible is useful for teaching and so forth. It does not state or imply in the slightest that the Bible is the final or only authority in the life of the Christian.

Click here to see why Sola Scriptura is wrong.

It’s a strawman. They’re very good at that. In another thread, somebody started whining about how my “argument is illogical”, before I ever even made any kind of argument. I just made a comment and didn’t refer to any Bible verse, and yet, the first thing out of his mouth was about how I was taking scripture out of context.

It’s just a game they play with us poor, ignorant Protestants.

The only games being played here are by Protestants who can’t justify their man-made teachings.

 

[Danny_Clover]

Spencerian:

While you and your daughter, as fellow Christians, can marry where you wish…

Just to clarify, I’m already married and my daughter is marrying someone else. While it’s true that we’re from Alabama, the whole “marrying your daughter” thing is just a stereotype.

And where would that suggestion be in the Bible?

You’re the one making the claim, you tell me.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

When did I ever object to weddings being held indoors?
Well, you seemed to be saying that even though neither indoor nor outdoor was specifically mentioned in the Bible, that we should have ‘outdoor’ weddings if desired. But since nothing is mentioned in the Bible that we can’t have them indoors, it also seemd that you were saying that our preference for indoors only was wrong.

No. Our church isn’t a dictatorship. Unless the church can show that something is either mandated or forbidden by scripture, it’s left up to the individual.

But that isn’t in Scripture. The Holy Spirit doesn’t have one truth for you, and another for another individual.

But how do you know that the Holy Spirit is guiding you unless you have an objective and authoritative standard by which to judge those things you believe the Holy Spirit is telling you?

GOOD QUESTION. We DO have an objective and authoritative standard. We have the Magesterium of the Catholic Church. Thank you for allowing me to point this out.