Why can't Fr. Jenkins be fired?

[Disciple96]

Abortion is a symptom of our disturbed society. Sometimes I feel that my fellow Catholics are not intelligent. Why can they not grasp that abortion is the end result of their very cold hearted approach to sinners? If Catholics were not always condemning sinners instead of helping them and loving them we would not be in this very situation. If people want to perform abortions, we must try to help them not force, belittle, criminalize, hurt them or demonize them. They are often afraid of poverty and suffering for themselves and for the child. Isn’t this a legitimate fear. Don’t people who have children often live in poverty? What do you do to help the American poor? Most Catholics are only concerned with helping the poor in Latin America and Asia. They are blind to their fellow American’s suffering!

As for attacking a Obama, this is just closet racism, in my opinion.

Who are you republicans to take this freedom away from the American people and make it a crime to sin? What is next? Will it become a crime to commit adultery? Will it become a crime to covet? While we recognize these things to be wrong, we can not impose our values upon the individual and take away his/her right to choose. How dare you propose to take away what God Himself has given us? If you keep this up you are going to destroy a great nation. Then we will no longer be America but some ruthless, horrid police state.

I was momentarily speechless in the face of such…what’s the word…what’s a word I can safely use and not be knocked off the forum… um… well, let’s just leave it at I was momentarily speechless.

But now I’ve found my voice. So here goes.

I found it disturbing, even shocking, Shocking, that you list sins and crimes as what makes this country great in your eyes. And the notion that God gives us the right to commit these sins is something I don’t remember reading in the Catechism or the Bible. Perhaps you have written your own version? Just asking, I don’t want a copy, I prefer to use the real thing.

As to the charge of being a racist based upon the fact that I have been critical of a person who happens to be black even though his race has nothing whatsoever to do with my criticism, this is simply ludicrous. I am certainly free to think and reason and voice the findings of said reason. His color matters not one whit to me. I have never been racist. Nope. Not ever. I’m not racist and I don’t like people who are. I have dear friends who are black and they don’t like Obama’s sneaky tactics either. In the words of my friend, “I didn’t drink the Kool-Aid”. And she’s paid dearly for it too. Her family and “friends” have raked her over the coals for not sticking with Obama simply because he shares her skin color.

So who’s playing the race card here? Certainly not me or those like me. I don’t like his ideas and I wouldn’t like them if he was purple with pink polka dots and chartreuse stripes.

You say you think many Catholics aren’t intelligent. How about voicing an intelligent argument for your case? I’d love to respond to that.

 

[Cinette]

Kudos to Shocking. He (or she) brings reason to a very complex problem. Do we want to criminalize abortion and put guilty women in jail? Most of them go through enough suffering as it is. Abortions usually occur when people become desperate.

 Besides, most Americans believe that under certain conditions abortions are the lesser evil.

 A couple examples - from real life. Several downs syndrome boys had sexual relations with a downs syndrome girl of 14, all of them in a special program. She is ignorant of possible consequences and becomes pregnant. The parents of the girl are horrified. They don't believe in abortion but who is going to want the baby of two people with downs syndrome and risk introducing the gene into the blood line? After much prayer and conflict they opt for an abortion. Who should be jailed? The parents? The girl? The persons in charge of the program? The downs syndrome boys who have sexual relations with her, teens themselves? The doctor? You probably would say the doctor - at least. But was the abortion under such circumstances wrong? What would happen to the baby? What sort of life is s/he likely to have? At least an abortion, as sad as it is, will lead that infant into eternal paradise.

  Another example. A good Catholic couple have seven children. They use church-approved periodic abstinence to avoid pregnancy. It doesn't work. She gets pregnant. Her doctor has indicated that she is likely to lose her life if she gives birth, leaving seven young children motherless. Her priest tells her she must bear the child. Reluctantly she and her husband leave the church and she has an abortion.They become bitter foes of the Catholic Church for what they feel is unreasonableness. 

  Still another thought. Millions of abortions (maybe most?) are miscarriages. Nature (God?) determines that the infant is going to be malformed or there will be some other critical problem and the pregnancy should not go the full term. If God can abort in this fashion, well.... you get the problem. 

   President Obama may be wrong, but he has said that he is interested in reducing the number of abortions. I for one am not sure I want to go back to those days when abortions were done in back alleys, too often under filthy and even criminal circumstances.

   Notre Dame should be proud of its president as I am proud that America has moved far enough to elect a Black person as our president. I pray for him and his family daily, and I suggest that you do, too.

   God bless the whole world, people of every faith, and especially those who are hungry or homeless, sick or saddened. Religion should be a bridge and not a barrier.

*First of all I do not believe that we should do things because they suit our circumstances - we have to obey God’s law and God’s commandments.

Your examples are not valid in my book! Furthermore I do not believe there is a down syndrome “gene” anyway. Murder is murder is murder - in every circumstance!

So, I live close to a person who I know is a paedophile but I cannot prove it and therefore to protect the community’s children I shoot the man! Same thing! In your book I am justified!.

See what I mean?

Cinette*

 

[Cinette]

*I would like to comment on the “accusation” of racism in regard to Obama above.

This is something that I find really annoying to the extreme. Every time one does not agree with a person of another race this is categorised as “racism”. That is so foolish.

When I was living in Mozambique I made a point of never asking my children the race of their friends. If my son spoke of Carlos, Pedro or Jorge I would never ask the race because I never wanted to suggest to my son that race had any significance. So only when he brought his friends home would I know the race. Then came the revolution…

One day my son was having a fight with one of his friends and they had a wrestle and children gathered around. Someone then called my son “racista” and my son stopped in his tracks confused… Oh he knew what racist meant because since the revolution he had learnt a lot of the terminology that was bandied around but he didn’t understand why it applied to a fight with his friend - friends do fight sometimes… My son was about 9 years old at the time and it was quite a “sting” because he had no racist feelings whatsoever.

So Shocking, in regard to your comment I think you must do some re-thinking because if anybody criticises Obama it has nothing to do with racism - it is simply because they do not agree with him.

Cinette *

 

[Shocking]

I think it’s a sin to call someone foolish. Why condemn others? Isn’t it to make ourselves feel good? You have hurt my feelings by referring to my legitimate opinion as foolishness. I think that loving our fellow man means respecting them. I expressed an opinion. You could have simply said that you disagreed and left it at that. Name-calling and put downs are unnecessary escalations that serve the Devil’s purpose well.

 

[Cinette]

I think it’s a sin to call someone foolish. Why condemn others? Isn’t it to make ourselves feel good? You have hurt my feelings by referring to my legitimate opinion as foolishness. I think that loving our fellow man means respecting them. I expressed an opinion. You could have simply said that you disagreed and left it at that. Name-calling and put downs are unnecessary escalations that serve the Devil’s purpose well.

*Did I call you foolish?

I think I referred to your remark as foolish. There is a difference. I apologise for hurting your feelings but that was not my intention.

You are not alone. I did something e x t r e m e l y foolish the other day and I have done foolish things many times in the past. It is human.

You are wrong in accusing me of name calling however.

Cinette *

 

[JReducation]

Please, it is not a sin to say something foolish, to look foolish or even desire to be a fool. Our holy Father Francis always inspried his brothers and sisters to be fools for the sake of the Kingdom.

But he also said that if we do not hate the sinful ways of the word, we could not be Christ’s disciples. And in this simple message he reminded us that we are not to look for or accept the respect of men, but only the truth that comes from God.

He also spoke to us of the beauty of creation and of it’s nobility. When he was getting ready to die, he wrote the Canticle of the Creatures. And through his words he left to the Church a theology of creation. In that theology, Francis reminds us that all creation is a reflection of the power of God and that man must praise God through his creation, not interfere with its proper development in any stage.

Therefore, life, even in the womb, is a sign of God’s good, reminds us Francis. There is no way, that we can allow any human being to do harm to what God has called into existence. There is no right, granted by man, that can overrule the right of God to create and to bring to life that which was created to praise him and to become one with him in eternity.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF
Franciscan Brothers of Life

 

[Shocking]

I was momentarily speechless in the face of such…what’s the word…what’s a word I can safely use and not be knocked off the forum… um… well, let’s just leave it at I was momentarily speechless.

But now I’ve found my voice. So here goes.

I found it disturbing, even shocking, Shocking, that you list sins and crimes as what makes this country great in your eyes. And the notion that God gives us the right to commit these sins is something I don’t remember reading in the Catechism or the Bible. Perhaps you have written your own version? Just asking, I don’t want a copy, I prefer to use the real thing.

As to the charge of being a racist based upon the fact that I have been critical of a person who happens to be black even though his race has nothing whatsoever to do with my criticism, this is simply ludicrous…You say you think many Catholics aren’t intelligent. How about voicing an intelligent argument for your case? I’d love to respond to that.

Disciple:
I am saddened that you have distorted my words to suit your purposes. You have also focused quite a bit on a secondary point - that is when I stated that some people hypocritically use Obama’s purported views on abortion to reject him as a legally elected official.

Clearly the real and true point of my post was to ask “Anti-abortionsits - what do you really WANT?” You have totally overtooked this fact. You have not stated what you, as an anti-abortionist want other than to vaguely indicate that you want an “end” to abortion. This word “end” is the child-like way that fanatical anti-abortionist refer to the resolution of a vast problem that has its origins in the decay of western society.

Western society is largely a product of christian values and tradition. Yet it has created our current social environment in which, for many women, the only sane solution to the miracle of pregnancy is to kill their child. We could just as well have created a society in which such an act would be considered heinous, impossible and most importantly, unnecessary.

During the pope’s recent visit he deplored the duality of America’s Christianity. They love
Christ but they hate to follow his commandments. If we truly followed his commandments, no woman would fear giving birth to that unwanted child. Yet most of you out there would never help anyone in trouble. Oh, you’ll give a dollar or two. But when it comes to helping with that unwanted baby, you are no where to be found. So many are cold and selfish. And what is TANF - temporary limited help.

These women need food, shelter and clothing. They need friendship, kindness and support. Did Jesus not tell us to feed the hungry, clothe the naked and to protect the widow? "What is the troubled pregnant girl but the modern version of the biblical widow? When we pressure her, and humiliate we teach her that abortion is the only acceptable solution.

Why did God bless Abraham? Didn’t his exemplary hospitality play a role in the incredible blessing which he received from our God? Where is our hospitality today?

This is not a matter of word games. This is not a matter of playing cards “race” or otherwise. This is a matter of the heart. If you want to “end” abortion, go out there and start helping your poor fellow Americans. Stop criticizing and condemning and start LOVING.

Finally I wish for people like you that abortion were made illegal tomorrow. They, when you notice all the dead bodies of young women who had illegal back alley abortions, who killed themselves or suffered in horrid, silent misery to the point of mental illness, filling our mental institutions - maybe then you would understand that this is not a open and close matter that can be resolved juridically. Or maybe you would just start saying "I wish it were illegal for unhappy, abandoned girls to kill themselves against my wishes. End end end.There is no such simple solution, can’t you get it. You have to get in there and work - do the labor of the heart. There is no magic wand!

Maybe what many rabid Catholic pro-lifer/anti-abortionist want is a world with everyone just like them, all alike, all of the same economic strata, all voting alike, doing alike, breathing in unison. Trouble is - I think that this would be HELL.

 

[JReducation]

Disciple:
I am saddened that you have distorted my words to suit your purposes. You have also focused quite a bit on a secondary point - that is when I stated that some people hypocritically use Obama’s purported views on abortion to reject him as a legally elected official.

Clearly the real and true point of my post was to ask “Anti-abortionsits - what do you really WANT?” You have totally overtooked this fact. You have not stated what you, as an anti-abortionist want other than to vaguely indicate that you want an “end” to abortion. This word “end” is the child-like way that fanatical anti-abortionist refer to the resolution of a vast problem that has its origins in the decay of western society.

Western society is largely a product of christian values and tradition. Yet it has created our current social environment in which, for many women, the only sane solution to the miracle of pregnancy is to kill their child. We could just as well have created a society in which such an act would be considered heinous, impossible and most importantly, unnecessary.

During the pope’s recent visit he deplored the duality of America’s Christianity. They love
Christ but they hate to follow his commandments. If we truly followed his commandments, no woman would fear giving birth to that unwanted child. Yet most of you out there would never help anyone in trouble. Oh, you’ll give a dollar or two. But when it comes to helping with that unwanted baby, you are no where to be found. So many are cold and selfish. And what is TANF - temporary limited help.

These women need food, shelter and clothing. They need friendship, kindness and support. Did Jesus not tell us to feed the hungry, clothe the naked and to protect the widow? "What is the troubled pregnant girl but the modern version of the biblical widow? When we pressure her, and humiliate we teach her that abortion is the only acceptable solution.

Why did God bless Abraham? Didn’t his exemplary hospitality play a role in the incredible blessing which he received from our God? Where is our hospitality today?

This is not a matter of word games. This is not a matter of playing cards “race” or otherwise. This is a matter of the heart. If you want to “end” abortion, go out there and start helping your poor fellow Americans. Stop criticizing and condemning and start LOVING.

Finally I wish for people like you that abortion were made illegal tomorrow. They, when you notice all the dead bodies of young women who had illegal back alley abortions, who killed themselves or suffered in horrid, silent misery to the point of mental illness, filling our mental institutions - maybe then you would understand that this is not a open and close matter that can be resolved juridically. Or maybe you would just start saying "I wish it were illegal for unhappy, abandoned girls to kill themselves against my wishes. End end end.There is no such simple solution, can’t you get it. You have to get in there and work - do the labor of the heart. There is no magic wand!

Maybe what many rabid Catholic pro-lifer/anti-abortionist want is a world with everyone just like them, all alike, all of the same economic strata, all voting alike, doing alike, breathing in unison. Trouble is - I think that this would be HELL.

Keeping abortion legal or legalizing it in the first place, is not the solution to the social ills that drive some women to back alley abortions. Nor are back alley abortions what the moral order wants for anyone.

The moral order is bigger than this. It is about the rights of God first and then the rights of man. Man has a first right above other rights, the right to be born, to be blessed with a life that allows him to live for God.

His seond right is the right to progress and human development in a dignified way. This is what you’re talking about and I agree with you. But you are reversing the order. We must first defend the right to be born, because in protecting that right, we are then protecting the rights of God and all the other human rights that flow from that: housing, clothing, healthcare, education, work, peace and prosperity. We do not solve the problem of abortion with social justice, abortion is the most violent crime against social justice. Therefore, we must attack it with all of our strength and the other injustices as well. But they are not on an equal plane.

The great saints and doctors of the Church have taught us that the right to life is far above all other right. When we interfere with that, for whatever reason, we also interfere in the work of the Creator. Not only do we sin against man, but directly against God. When we sin against other human rights, we sin against man and against God in an indirect way. But abortion is an assault on God’s creative hand. We cannot wait to put everything in place to restore the rights of God. It does not work that way in the Divine Plan.

Christ restores the Father’s right to be adored and to have sacrifice offered to him and the Father’s right to restitution, even though the world was in chaos. He does not stop to fix the world and then to attend to the rights of the Father. The rights of the Father are paramount and have primacy. This is a lesson that Christ and the saints have taught us and that all of us have to put into practice.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[imperial]

Maybe what many rabid Catholic pro-lifer/anti-abortionist want is a world with everyone just like them, all alike, all of the same economic strata, all voting alike, doing alike, breathing in unison. Trouble is - I think that this would be HELL.

Sorry to tell you but pro lifers love human beings, especially the most vulnerable.
How do you know what pro lifers do? Some writing in this post may very well be those that you seem to be so concerned about, and indeed have found fellow Catholics that have assisted them. I would like to mention there is a few in this post that work tirelessly to help God’s children
Not every one is rich, money isn’t every thing some pro lifers are probably suffering financially with the recession, but they offer a very special tool, its called prayers.
With prayers you can move mountains.
We should never give up loving and standing up for what is morally right.

 

[tcm22]

Disciple:
I am saddened that you have distorted my words to suit your purposes. You have also focused quite a bit on a secondary point - that is when I stated that some people hypocritically use Obama’s purported views on abortion to reject him as a legally elected official.

Clearly the real and true point of my post was to ask “Anti-abortionsits - what do you really WANT?” You have totally overtooked this fact. You have not stated what you, as an anti-abortionist want other than to vaguely indicate that you want an “end” to abortion. This word “end” is the child-like way that fanatical anti-abortionist refer to the resolution of a vast problem that has its origins in the decay of western society.

Western society is largely a product of christian values and tradition. Yet it has created our current social environment in which, for many women, the only sane solution to the miracle of pregnancy is to kill their child. We could just as well have created a society in which such an act would be considered heinous, impossible and most importantly, unnecessary.

During the pope’s recent visit he deplored the duality of America’s Christianity. They love
Christ but they hate to follow his commandments. If we truly followed his commandments, no woman would fear giving birth to that unwanted child. Yet most of you out there would never help anyone in trouble. Oh, you’ll give a dollar or two. But when it comes to helping with that unwanted baby, you are no where to be found. So many are cold and selfish. And what is TANF - temporary limited help.

These women need food, shelter and clothing. They need friendship, kindness and support. Did Jesus not tell us to feed the hungry, clothe the naked and to protect the widow? "What is the troubled pregnant girl but the modern version of the biblical widow? When we pressure her, and humiliate we teach her that abortion is the only acceptable solution.

Why did God bless Abraham? Didn’t his exemplary hospitality play a role in the incredible blessing which he received from our God? Where is our hospitality today?

This is not a matter of word games. This is not a matter of playing cards “race” or otherwise. This is a matter of the heart. If you want to “end” abortion, go out there and start helping your poor fellow Americans. Stop criticizing and condemning and start LOVING.

Finally I wish for people like you that abortion were made illegal tomorrow. They, when you notice all the dead bodies of young women who had illegal back alley abortions, who killed themselves or suffered in horrid, silent misery to the point of mental illness, filling our mental institutions - maybe then you would understand that this is not a open and close matter that can be resolved juridically. Or maybe you would just start saying "I wish it were illegal for unhappy, abandoned girls to kill themselves against my wishes. End end end.There is no such simple solution, can’t you get it. You have to get in there and work - do the labor of the heart. There is no magic wand!

Maybe what many rabid Catholic pro-lifer/anti-abortionist want is a world with everyone just like them, all alike, all of the same economic strata, all voting alike, doing alike, breathing in unison. Trouble is - I think that this would be HELL.

• What I want is an end to the murder of innocent unborn children. We have many laws that prohibit individuals from harming one another. We need one to protect the most vulnerable. First and foremost I want a legal system that recognizes the rights of the unborn and protects them from murder. With that in place, I’m more than willing to deal with women’s fears of unwanted pregnancy. To make one contingent on the other is morally blind.
• I take serious issue with your assessment that:

Western society is largely a product of christian values and tradition. Yet it has created our current social environment in which, for many women, the only sane solution to the miracle of pregnancy is to kill their child. We could just as well have created a society in which such an act would be considered heinous, impossible and most importantly, unnecessary.

Simply stated, you’re saying that it is our Christian values and traditions that promote the abortion industry and the culture of death. That is so far from true it’s laughable. It is the rejection of Christian values and traditions that has resulted in the acceptance of infanticide and the celebration of the profane.Your notion of the collective will regarding what “we could just as well” have done is an utter deflection. There are millions of faithful Christians, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who are fighting hard to create a society where the act of abortion is considered heinous and impossible. People like you who are ready to blame “society” rather than the bad moral choices of individuals make that harder to do.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

“Anti-abortionsits - what do you really WANT?”

Speaking only for myself, I want to see the doctors who perform abortions suffer the same penalty for murdering two week old fetus that they would suffer for murdering a two week old baby.

 

[recondelta]

Since discussions on this thread have begun again, I will respond to some comments on earlier posts.

tqualey said*You are aware that prior to 1973 and the Roe v Wade decision, abortion was not the law of the land and abortion on demand was in fact illegal in most of the states (30) and legal in only a few (4) here is a link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortio…_United_States.

This all took place without the Catholic Church taking control of the US Government and forming a theocracy! I think what is actually being seen is a real change in our attitudes and outlook in the 36 years and the millions and millions of murdered innocent lives that have been simply trashed for convenience.*

The period from the1880’s through the 1920’s was an interesting time in our history. Blacks were told they were separate but equal, women were told they still could not vote, the average person was told that they still had no say in who was chosen as their United States Senator, Prohibition took effect, and the KKK grew to an enrollment of over a quarter million. In addition, thanks to the combined efforts of the medical profession, conservative churches, including the Catholic Church, and various political groups, both abortions and contraceptives became illegal in most places.

Like prohibition, the ban on abortions did not work. Both the wealthy and middle classes, in many cases even the lower middle class, knew where to go and who to see – as a lower middle class high school and then college student in the late 1950’s and early 1960’s, I did. These abortions were done in hospitals or offices under the guise of various gynecological procedures. Only women from the lower income groups were at significant risk. Police crackdowns on abortionists, when they occurred, usually came about after some sort of butchery occurred in this latter group.

It seems quite certain that the United States will never again face the perfect storm of circumstances that characterized this period. For example, people to some extent can now read and think. As a result, I feel the theocracy comment is valid. (Who says it has to be Catholic?)

tqualy saidWhile I do not question your stats, it is helpful if you provide a reference. Thanks.

As far as the polling data is concerned, if you pull up the Gallup Poll website and enter “abortion” in the search slot, you will see more polls on the subject than you ever might want to read. In particular,
gallup.com/poll/9904/Public-Opinion-About-Abortion-InDepth-Review.aspx
contains most of the data that I mentioned.

I wrote
In my opinion, you will never get a significant number of people to agree to prohibit abortion in cases of rape or incest or in cases when the mother’s life is in danger. While estimates vary, these cases constitute at most 2-3% of all abortions. The real question is whether it is possible to get 60% of the people to agree on a subset of the “some cases” in 1: that will reduce the number of abortions to around 10% of the current total.

tqualy said
*I]This is really going back to attitude and outlook. Just what is the attitude and outlook of most citizens when it comes to innocent fetal life? We are probably significantly behind every curve out there! The latest stat I came across is that a growing proportion of all abortions (reported?) are now done with drugs like RU-486…(usatoday.com/news/health/…on-rates_N.htm ) but, this is neither simple or without risk (nrlc.org/abortion/ASMF/asmf6.html and abortiontv.com/Methods/RU486TheQuick.htm)

One of the unreported aspects of this abortion disaster is the number of women who suffer mental health problems as a direct result of the abortion. While the abortion industry would like to have their view of murder seen as no more involved as removing unwanted tissue (like removing a cancer) - this does not hold up for most women months and years after the event. Major Depressive Disorder and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder are real problems that follow these real murders. Changing our view of life - and how to appreciate it - will have a direct impact on the abortion industry. There is no need to change our form of government.*

MichaelTDoyle said
*This is a common refrain from pro abortion people. It ignores the greater danger to humans who accept abortion as part of their moral fabric. Such an acceptance dehumanizes their fellow humans and makes it difficult for them to love one another as Jesus loved us, fully.

The reduction of abortions argument ignores the moral deadening of the human race that sees killing a human in his mother’s womb to be somehow and acceptable choice.*

Reducing the number of abortions simply means reducing the size of the problem, not eliminating the problem itself. The discussions in the newer postings seem to explore this point. We do have to decide what works and what doesn’t. Of course, making things work will require a whole lot more people other than Brother JR – whose work I admire – to get their hands dirty. Writing and protesting and marching and sending money somewhere is All Hat and No Cattle. (By the way, how does all of this make someone pro abortion? The term realist seems more appropriate.)

tqualey said
Unless I am reading too much into your post, for someone claiming to be a Catholic, you certainly have a edge in your post about the position of the Catholic Church. Do you think that is necessary?

Gee, and I’m such a touchy, feely, sensitive guy (thank you, Dropkick Murphys). All I can say is “I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” (Tallenbyre pseud, Friends of Voltaire, 1906).

 

[Disciple96]

Disciple:
I am saddened that you have distorted my words to suit your purposes. You have also focused quite a bit on a secondary point - that is when I stated that some people hypocritically use Obama’s purported views on abortion to reject him as a legally elected official.

—snipped for space, please see the full post further up this page—

Dear Shocking:

I am saddened but not surprised that you have distorted my words to suit your purpose, which was to ignore and/or to obscure my point. I believe that I responded to your claim that I, or people like me, whatever that means, are racist and that that is why we criticize Obama and his minions and their plans. But just in case you didn’t intentionally ignore it but somehow missed it, I will repeat it here in brief: I am not a racist. I just don’t like the guy’s ideas and I don’t care one little bit about the color of his skin. Not a bit. Not even a little. Not even an infinitesimally small amount. Not an iota.

Now for your further comments. You imply, suggest and pretty clearly state that I, or people like me, do nothing to help other people. How would you know anything about what I do or do not do? How would you know who I help or how? Are you claiming omniscience? Do your superpowers extend to clairvoyance? If so, then you must hear what I’m thinking right now, so I shouldn’t have to say it. But I will, for the sake of others reading this who are mere human beings, people like me, who lack such God-like abilities…

I actually have helped to support friends who have gotten themselves into trouble and supported them with time, money and in every way I could for years at a time. I am not rich and so have only been able to donate what I could when I could to help other folks. I give at church and I give to Catholic Charities and I give to other organizations and causes as I am able. And once, long before I was Catholic, I helped a friend get an abortion. I paid for it and drove her to the clinic. I think she paid me back later, which was good, because I got the money from a guy who dealt drugs in the neighborhood where I lived. He actually lived downstairs when I lived in one of those great big old-timey houses that was split up into apartments downtown. I have since traveled down many roads and experienced many things, one of them being becoming Catholic and I have confessed this sin and have received sacramental absolution for it. And I am doing whatever I can to work for change in this world, beginning with me and working on from there. Participating in dialogue everywhere I go is one way.

FYI, I don’t consider slinging insults at me to be an honest attempt at dialogue. For you to assume that you know anything at all about me or my life, or what I know or do not know or think or do not think or do or do not do, is a sign of stunning hubris on your part. I know nothing of what you yourself have done or have not done, as I don’t remember reading anything about that in your rather insulting reply. Would you care to enlighten me as to your own work for the common good? I’d be only to happy to hear about it.

 

[Fidelis_Unus]

The only way you can take that position is simply because you don’t think abortion is that big of a deal. Well it is! It is nothing other than the murder of over 1 million innocent people of this nation per year.

I noticed you didn’t mention the honorary law degree that ND gave him. Here is a man whose views on abortion are the most extreme of any president–whose views of law and freedom are so skewed that the unborn have no rights until they escape from the womb. And, based on his voting record they don’t even have rights if they manage to miraculously escape the abortionists knife by being born. Then a Catholic University honors him with a law doctorate?!? An honorary law doctorate?!? This is in clear violation for the USCCB’s guildines. Is the USCCB the group of right-wing Catholic nuts of which you speak?

Here is a little exercise that might help you understand. Take every instance of the word abortion and replace it with “instituted slavery” or “holocaust of the Jews” and see if anything Obama and his supporters say about finding common ground and having respectful dialog make any sense.

Here is an example:

“While I disagree with Obama’s decision to keep the Nazi death camps open, he did say he would try to keep the gassing of Jews rare. Plus I like his position on health care and the economy”

Some issues are so serious (serious isn’t even a strong enough word) that they override everything else. Open your eyes.

Its not that ND won’t cave in to right-wingers. They won’t cave in to authentic Catholic principles of the dignity of human life and social justice.

Based on what you said, I think there is only one thing we will ever agree on: nothing will happen to Jenkins. Bishops have very little control over Universities. After the elitists in Catholic Universities decided to invent their own form of dissident Catholicism in the name of academic freedom in the 60’s-90’s, the only kind of pressure that can be applied to them is financial.

Well said!

God bless.