Why cant God just communicate with us directly?

[sophion]

yo fellow filipino!

But it is written, “Blessed is he, who has NOT seen, YET BELIEVED.”

so they are. does that mean Thomas wasnt blessed? he demanded proof and got it…according to the stories.

Why should He do the talking directly to us once again (audibly and visibly) when He has already done that through the prophets and THROUGH JESUS CHRIST, as well as to some of the blessed men and women (the saints) of the Church?

because people could no longer trust those STORIES. what with the existence of other religions claiming other holy books…koran, book of mormons, dianetics, etc.

people now are smarter. more and more people now are becoming like THOMAS.

To say that God needs to talk to each and every billions of people around the world (just for each and everyone to believe for example) implies that God didn’t do enough and He has not revealed Himself enough. Are we in position to say “If you really are the One, True and Almighty God, you will talk to me and to my millions of brothers aroused the world so that we may come to know you more.”?

so why wasnt Thomas condemned? instead you made him a saint! patron saint of what? of skeptics?

He wants us to know Him, not to make Himself known to us by “visible means” everytime.

so whats the point of miracles then? wasnt it to prove the god promoted by the so called prophets?

 

[pig]

So there you go. People who literaly spoke with God did not lose their free will.

But everyone is different, is that true?. Prophets are made of sterner stuff than most. If the shining god in the sky appeared now with a double edged sword in his mouth there would be panic; the good being gooder, the bad being terrified (and having their freewill compromised in the process of being terrified).

 

[sophion]

But everyone is different, is that true?. Prophets are made of sterner stuff than most. If the shining god in the sky appeared now with a double edged sword in his mouth there would be panic; the good being gooder, the bad being terrified (and having their freewill compromised in the process of being terrified).

We are all human. If God appeared like that to Moses & Paul they would be running for his lives!

but if its just a nice appearition of light and a gentle voice…most people would be touched… like Paul. right?

 

[epan]

No. Im talking about literally hearing god. just like the prophets.

He only does that anymore for prophets, protestants and crazy people.

 

[sophion]

He only does that anymore for prophets, protestants and crazy people.

its very likely those so called prophets were people who had mental defects. thats why they saw & hear things in their head.

Here is a fine testimony about the ‘prophet’ of islam:

Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 400:
Narrated Aisha:
*Once the Prophet was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done. *

 

[pig]

We are all human. If God appeared like that to Moses & Paul they would be running for his lives!

but if its just a nice appearition of light and a gentle voice…most people would be touched… like Paul. right?

I think the next time he arrives it is something like that actually; the first time was not to judge, the second it is to judge. That is, if we are talking about Christianity.

 

[sophion]

I think the next time he arrives it is something like that actually; the first time was not to judge, the second it is to judge. That is, if we are talking about Christianity.

thats not fair.

but who said life was!

 

[LilyM]

thats not fair.

but who said life was!

Exactly! Why should God do exactly the same things for all of us? Ever think that the prophets needed a special and different type of interaction with God precisely because of the special nature of their task as compared to ordinary schmos like us?

Your point about St Thomas is bologna. He became a saint because he witnessed for Christ in far off lands like India and was martyred there. Not because he doubted. Another St Thomas - Thomas More - also witnessed for Christ, was martyred and became a Saint. He managed to achieve these things without any more locutions than you or I. Same for many other martyrs and saints.

The doubts of Thomas are a footnote and a teachable moment which was used by Christ, as He used Peter’s denial. Not especially related to their sanctity except as speed bumps on their respective roads.

We’re smarter now? Don’t make me laugh.

We have extra holy books? Really only the Koran and the Book of Mormon as far as I am aware. Influential, yes, but not a huge number.

Certainly there have always been many religions offering competing claims and world views, be it the Babylonians, Sumerians, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Celtic and Norse pantheons, or Hinduism, Buddhism and Shinto. In that sense things are no more confusing now than they have always been.

 

[sophion]

Exactly! Why should God do exactly the same things for all of us?

because you folks make the bold claim that your version of God is loving and just! …NOT!

Your point about St Thomas is bologna. He became a saint because he witnessed for Christ in far off lands like India and was martyred there. Not because he doubted.

and why did he witness? because he got his proof (according to the story). dont you think atheists, muslims and buddhists would do so too if God appeared to them?

We’re smarter now? Don’t make me laugh.

you dont think we are? after all the technology and human rights achievements?

 

[davidv]

because you folks make the bold claim that your version of God is loving and just! …NOT!

Yes a bold claim, backed up with evidence.

and why did he witness? because he got his proof (according to the story). dont you think atheists, muslims and buddhists would do so too if God appeared to them?

There where many in Thomas’ time who had the same proof as he did and rejected it.

you dont think we are? after all the technology and human rights achievements?

The way we use technology and the human rights atocities in many countries are contrary to your claim of greater smartness.

 

[sophion]

There where many in Thomas’ time who had the same proof as he did and rejected it.

like who?

The way we use technology and the human rights atocities in many countries are contrary to your claim of greater smartness.

but as a whole, we are. thats why the world is much better now compared to the past.

 

[davidv]

like who?

RSV:

John 6:66 After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him.

but as a whole, we are. thats why the world is much better now compared to the past.

You have not proven the the world is a better place than it was. Not only that, “better” in what way?
Do we live more moral lives?

 

[sophion]

John 6:66 After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him.

what made you think they got the same proof thomas asked? afterall Thomas was one such disciple who supposedly saw all the alleged wonders of jesus. and he still would not believe that he rose from the dead.

You have not proven the the world is a better place than it was. Not only that, “better” in what way?
Do we live more moral lives?

you need proof of that??? my friend i am soooooo dissappointed with you:

• are you a slave?
• are you free to express your opinion?
• do you enjoy equal rights?
• can the king kill you at whim?
• are the women in your life treated like property?
• do you enjoy equal opportunities?
  etc etc etc.

 

[davidv]

what made you think they got the same proof thomas asked? afterall Thomas was one such disciple who supposedly saw all the alleged wonders of jesus. and he still would not believe that he rose from the dead.

you need proof of that??? my friend i am soooooo dissappointed with you:

• are you a slave?
• are you free to express your opinion?
• do you enjoy equal rights?
• can the king kill you at whim?
• are the women in your life treated like property?
• do you enjoy equal opportunities?
  etc etc etc.

None of these things are universally true across the globe. Sorry to disappoint you again, but you have not supported your claim.

 

[sophion]

None of these things are universally true across the globe. Sorry to disappoint you again, but you have not supported your claim.

just because there are some rogue countries out there you deny the fact that most people today enjoy better rights than in the past.

too bad.

---

now what about thomas?

 

[Gorgias]

you need proof of that??? my friend i am soooooo dissappointed with you:

• are you a slave?
• are you free to express your opinion?
• do you enjoy equal rights?
• can the king kill you at whim?
• are the women in your life treated like property?
• do you enjoy equal opportunities?
  etc etc etc.

None of these prove we’re “smarter”, though. Our accumulation of knowledge is greater than it was, true, but that doesn’t mean that anyone is “smarter”.

Moreover, your demonstrations of increased intelligence don’t make sense. Smart people don’t have slaves? That’s a criterion of a society, not a person – lots of smart people owned slaves throughout history, even smart Americans up until 150 years ago.

Only smart people allow others to express their opinions? No, that’s not true, either.

Only dumb people are under the rule of kings who can kill them? No… that throws away all the “smart people” throughout most of history.

See? Your notion of ‘smart’ is rather poorly considered…

 

[sophion]

^ you misunderstand. that list is reply to this question:

You have not proven the the world is a better place than it was

it is better, right?

 

[Gorgias]

^ you misunderstand. that list is reply to this question:

You have not proven the the world is a better place than it was

it is better, right?

You’re forgetting what you said, earlier…

sophion:

LilyM:

We’re smarter now? Don’t make me laugh.

you dont think we are? after all the technology and human rights achievements?

Your claim was that “technology and human rights achievements” (that is, the demonstrations that the world is a better place) prove that we’re smarter now. They don’t prove that we’re smarter now.

 

[sophion]

Your claim was that “technology and human rights achievements” (that is, the demonstrations that the world is a better place) prove that we’re smarter now. They don’t prove that we’re smarter now.

educated women of today are smarter right?

free people should be smarter than slaves because of education, right?

knowledge of modern science makes us smarter, right?

freedom of opinion and free access to facts makes us smart.

etc etc etc.

---

Thus more and more people uses the benefit of the doubt when it comes to religion.

 

[LilyM]

because you folks make the bold claim that your version of God is loving and just! …NOT!

If love and justice = treating everyone in precisely the same way, then why would my boss laugh in my face if I, as a childless woman, asked for maternity leave? Horses for courses.

and why did he witness? because he got his proof (according to the story). dont you think atheists, muslims and buddhists would do so too if God appeared to them?

What makes you think that he witnessed because of that? Many - Christians, former Buddhists and former Muslims - would not claim divine locutions and yet they convert (or revert) and witness wonderfully for Christ too. St Thomas More is one - do you not know who he was or are you just conveniently ignoring his glorious witness for the faith in spite of not being graced with divine locutions?

you dont think we are? after all the technology and human rights achievements?

The technology is maling us fatter and unhealthier than ever before. The oppoaite of smart. And as a woman and a lawyer, I can yell you things have not changed nearly as much on the human rights front as you would like to think. It’s more concealed but a lot of discrimination and oppression still goes on.