Why can't Priests Preach ... like the Protestant Pastors can ?

[brb3]

Father Corapi makes the charge, in his EWTN program, that most Catholic Priests are poorly equipped, and sorely challenged to preach the Good News to their Flocks.

Father C says they need either get on with their PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY, or get out of the pulpit. One of the few good preachers he could name was the late Bishop Fulton Sheen. I recently heard the preaching of Sheen on EWTN, and agree he was a dynamo. He had mastered the dogmas and Church scriptures, and was riveting of listen to.

I travel alot, and have attended 20 plus Catholic Churches in last several years. Without exception, the preaching has been subpar and uninspirational. The average Evangelical Protestant preacher, with much less religious training, is much better in the pulpit.

With the superior Catholic training of our priests, why don’t our Universities do a better job of training our priests for their homiletic mission ? Who else, besides Corapi and Sheen, can hold their own with the LONG list of Protestant evangelists, and really preach to the Faithful at our CATHOLIC HOURS ?

 

[HereticalTheist]

Father Corapi makes the charge, in his EWTN program, that most Catholic Priests are poorly equipped, and sorely challenged to preach the Good News to their Flocks.

Father C says they need either get on with their PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY, or get out of the pulpit. One of the few good preachers he could name was the late Bishop Fulton Sheen. I recently heard the preaching of Sheen on EWTN, and agree he was a dynamo. He had mastered the dogmas and Church scriptures, and was riveting of listen to.

I travel alot, and have attended 20 plus Catholic Churches in last several years. Without exception, the preaching has been subpar and uninspirational. The average Evangelical Protestant preacher, with much less religious training, is much better in the pulpit.

With the superior Catholic training of our priests, why don’t our Universities do a better job of training our priests for their homiletic mission ? Who else, besides Corapi and Sheen, can hold their own with the LONG list of Protestant evangelists, and really preach to the Faithful at our CATHOLIC HOURS ?

As someone who more or less grew up going back and forth between Baptist and Catholic religious expressions, and as the grandson of a Baptist reverend doctor, and the nephew of a former Baptist reverend, I’ve had a lot of opportunity to taste both protestant and catholic preaching. I prefer the Catholic model.

In many preaching-central protestant churches there exists a very real danger of a cult of personality developing around a given preacher. I myself have frequently visited churches expressly to hear some particular brilliant firebrand of a preacher. I think at those times my focus was less on Christ and more on the preacher before me. It’s human nature for this to happen. But in the Catholic, or Anglican, or Epicopal, or I assume Lutheran, homily, the focus remains not on the priest, but on Christ. The homily assumes it’s true place in the context of liturgy. I think this is actually good because it discourages the cult of personality.

That said, there is a time for preaching, and there are many great firebrand preachers in the Catholic Church, and there are also poorly equipped, lame, and ineffectual protestant preachers.

I think that the difference is that in the Catholic Church (at our best) we glory in Christ, and often in protestant Churches there is a greater temptation to glory in Pastor Bob…or what have you.

 

[Drawmack]

The average Evangelical Protestant preacher, with much less religious training, is much better in the pulpit.

Where did you get that statistic from?

 

[brb3]

In many preaching-central protestant churches there exists a very real danger of a cult of personality developing around a given preacher. I myself have frequently visited churches expressly to hear some particular brilliant firebrand of a preacher. I think at those times my focus was less on Christ and more on the preacher before me. It’s human nature for this to happen. But in the Catholic, or Anglican, or Epicopal, or I assume Lutheran, homily, the focus remains not on the priest, but on Christ. The homily assumes it’s true place in the context of liturgy. I think this is actually good because it discourages the cult of personality.

often in protestant Churches there is a greater temptation to glory in Pastor Bob…or what have you.

You make good points, but again … is Father Corapi WRONG in his judgment ?

After hearing Corapi or Sheen, I don’t find myself ‘focusing’ on them. They are always Lifting Up Christ and giving Christ the glory, as a true Pastor must.

I think that if the Protestant churches had a valid Eucharist, they would be less prone to focus on their pastors, less risk of putting the pastor on the throne. Nevertheless, was it not Paul who taught his Churches to IMITATE him, as he imitated Christ ?

Christ teaches in OT scriptures, that TRUE SHEPHERDS are valued, and when false shepherds take over, they will be exposed/deposed.

 

[brb3]

Where did you get that statistic from?

Surely not from the Protestant pastors.

Actually, its the Catholics that believe their Pastors are much better educated … so they tell me.

It would be interesting to see the actual data, of average religious training of Catholic vs Protestant pastor. Serve it up, if its available. Links ??

 

[JRKH]

Where do we hear the majority of our priests speak. Is it not during the mass? During this time, many priests ( I believe) are focused more on the holy sacrifice of the mass than they are on the homily. This may account for a certain amount of “humilty” in the delivery of their homilies.

Also - Protestant prieschers have more time to preach AND wider latitude in their preaching, since what they preach comes from their interpretation of the bible.

Just my personal opinions.

Peace
James

 

[Young_Thinker]

Where did you get that statistic from?

For one thing, it is not that difficult to acquire a minister’s license(I know of a multiple divorcee’ who apparently did not go to college yet acquired one), and Baptist preachers are not ordained. Anyway, I think that Protestants more often than not just attend a bible-college for an undergradute degree. It seems that a Protestant minister having a doctorate in theology is the exception rather than the norm. Even Billy Graham only has a substantive bachelor’s degree. Catholic priests, on the other hand, are required to have at least a Master of Divinity. Also “Low” Protestants use very little ceremony, so they have to make sure that their sermons are interesting.

 

[4Squarebaby]

Where did you get that statistic from?

Remember the theology if the person is protestant he does not know the “full” truth so by definition he is lacking, either in education or plain bullheadedness. You also see statements that people who study turn Catholic with the unstated assumption that Catholics who study never lose faith in God or move to another denomination. And Catholics who do move were not properly taught. Its just the institution prejudice.

The reason, in my opinion is often stated, many protestant church services are built around the sermon, the message not the ritual or sacrament of the Eucharist . The pastor has to be better at delivering the message while a Priest has his theatrical role with a set liturgy and administering sacraments

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Father Corapi makes the charge, in his EWTN program, that most Catholic Priests are poorly equipped, and sorely challenged to preach the Good News to their Flocks.

Father C says they need either get on with their PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY, or get out of the pulpit. One of the few good preachers he could name was the late Bishop Fulton Sheen. I recently heard the preaching of Sheen on EWTN, and agree he was a dynamo. He had mastered the dogmas and Church scriptures, and was riveting of listen to.

I travel alot, and have attended 20 plus Catholic Churches in last several years. Without exception, the preaching has been subpar and uninspirational. The average Evangelical Protestant preacher, with much less religious training, is much better in the pulpit.

With the superior Catholic training of our priests, why don’t our Universities do a better job of training our priests for their homiletic mission ? Who else, besides Corapi and Sheen, can hold their own with the LONG list of Protestant evangelists, and really preach to the Faithful at our CATHOLIC HOURS ?

Fadda Mitch Pacwa, Fadda Frank Pavone, Fadda Wade Menezes, Fadda Trigilio, oh, just a few…

All you gotta do is listen to EWTN. I’ve even heard a few good ones on my own turf, against the evil of abortion.

 

[Scoobyshme]

Father Corapi makes the charge, in his EWTN program, that most Catholic Priests are poorly equipped, and sorely challenged to preach the Good News to their Flocks.

Father C says they need either get on with their PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY, or get out of the pulpit. One of the few good preachers he could name was the late Bishop Fulton Sheen. I recently heard the preaching of Sheen on EWTN, and agree he was a dynamo. He had mastered the dogmas and Church scriptures, and was riveting of listen to.

I travel alot, and have attended 20 plus Catholic Churches in last several years. Without exception, the preaching has been subpar and uninspirational. The average Evangelical Protestant preacher, with much less religious training, is much better in the pulpit.

With the superior Catholic training of our priests, why don’t our Universities do a better job of training our priests for their homiletic mission ? Who else, besides Corapi and Sheen, can hold their own with the LONG list of Protestant evangelists, and really preach to the Faithful at our CATHOLIC HOURS ?

Bishop Sheen had the answer to this issue. One hour before the Blessed Sacrament EVERY day, without exception. Bishop Sheen did this for over 60 years of his priesthood! The only time he ever missed was when he had heart surgery and was in ICU, toward the end of his life. One other time, he said he was traveling by train through Europe and stopped in a French town (had a layover). He walked to the nearby cathedral and went in. He was so tired, he said he fell dead asleep and awoke exactly one hour later with just enough time to make his next connection. He said he asked his angel if that holy hour counted and his angel said, “Yes. That’s how the Apostles spent their first holy hour.” LOL

Seriously, though, all Protestants have is preaching. They only have our equivalent of the Liturgy of the Word. They don’t have the Eucharist, the Mass, etc. Luther threw all that out when he split from the Church.

God is capable, if you will listen to getting His message over. It is not because of the ability of the priest, but because of the ability of the Holy Spirit! Yes, the priest needs to prepare and cooperate. But it would be a mistake, I think, to put it all on the personal ability of the priest. If the priest will prepare properly (including a Holy Hour EVERY day), then even the simplest homily will have something in it for you.

If you travel a lot (like I used to) then you have lots of time where you could be listening to good Catholic talks. If you don’t have one, get an iPod or MP3 player and go to my website and download till your heart’s content! I have compiled many great Catholic speakers (including Corapi) in .MP3 format. It’s free. No signup or anything.

AlabamaCatholicResources.com

God bless!

 

[Dale_M]

Without exception, the preaching has been subpar and uninspirational. The average Evangelical Protestant preacher, with much less religious training, is much better in the pulpit.

I wonder if this isn’t similar to the common complaint among converts to the Catholic faith that church services are so cold. I’ve seen multiple CAF threads saying that they miss the emotional connection with other parishioners that they found at their Protestant church. Perhaps the desire for the preaching to be more emotionally engaging is similar?

 

[dominicandinah]

Surely not from the Protestant pastors.

Actually, its the Catholics that believe their Pastors are much better educated … so they tell me.

It would be interesting to see the actual data, of average religious training of Catholic vs Protestant pastor. Serve it up, if its available. Links ??

While I don’t have a link for that, I wanted to share this regarding certain Protestant ministers.

There is a church close to my parents’ home and the pastor went “visiting” in the neighborhood to drum up business. When my mom asked about his training/education/ordination, he told her that God ordained him and he was taught by “his former pastor”, who had retired. I’m sure this is not an isolated circumstance, either.

 

[dominicandinah]

Father Corapi makes the charge, in his EWTN program, that most Catholic Priests are poorly equipped, and sorely challenged to preach the Good News to their Flocks.

Father C says they need either get on with their PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY, or get out of the pulpit. One of the few good preachers he could name was the late Bishop Fulton Sheen. I recently heard the preaching of Sheen on EWTN, and agree he was a dynamo. He had mastered the dogmas and Church scriptures, and was riveting of listen to.

I travel alot, and have attended 20 plus Catholic Churches in last several years. Without exception, the preaching has been subpar and uninspirational. The average Evangelical Protestant preacher, with much less religious training, is much better in the pulpit.

With the superior Catholic training of our priests, why don’t our Universities do a better job of training our priests for their homiletic mission ? Who else, besides Corapi and Sheen, can hold their own with the LONG list of Protestant evangelists, and really preach to the Faithful at our CATHOLIC HOURS ?

Well, they have to make up for not having the True Presence of the Eucharist! They do so by becoming great orators and have some have already said, it’s a cult of personality. Joel Osteen and some of the other TV preachers come to mind on this one!

 

[HereticalTheist]

Baptist preachers are not ordained. Anyway, I think that Protestants more often than not just attend a bible-college for an undergradute degree. It seems that a Protestant minister having a doctorate in theology is the exception rather than the norm.

This is quite false.! My grandfather was a Southern Baptist, and he was ordained, and a preacher of several small congregations in SW Missouri, and Oklahoma, and he had a bachelors degree, a M.Div from William Jewel seminary, and PhD in Ministry from Southwest Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas. Likewise my Uncle was at one time an ordained Baptist minister, and he likewise had an M.Div from William Jewel seminary.

 

[HereticalTheist]

Bishop Sheen had the answer to this issue. One hour before the Blessed Sacrament EVERY day, without exception. Bishop Sheen did this for over 60 years of his priesthood! The only time he ever missed was when he had heart surgery and was in ICU, toward the end of his life. One other time, he said he was traveling by train through Europe and stopped in a French town (had a layover). He walked to the nearby cathedral and went in. He was so tired, he said he fell dead asleep and awoke exactly one hour later with just enough time to make his next connection. He said he asked his angel if that holy hour counted and his angel said, “Yes. That’s how the Apostles spent their first holy hour.” LOL

Seriously, though, all Protestants have is preaching. They only have our equivalent of the Liturgy of the Word. They don’t have the Eucharist, the Mass, etc. Luther threw all that out when he split from the Church.

God is capable, if you will listen to getting His message over. It is not because of the ability of the priest, but because of the ability of the Holy Spirit! Yes, the priest needs to prepare and cooperate. But it would be a mistake, I think, to put it all on the personal ability of the priest. If the priest will prepare properly (including a Holy Hour EVERY day), then even the simplest homily will have something in it for you.

If you travel a lot (like I used to) then you have lots of time where you could be listening to good Catholic talks. If you don’t have one, get an iPod or MP3 player and go to my website and download till your heart’s content! I have compiled many great Catholic speakers (including Corapi) in .MP3 format. It’s free. No signup or anything.

AlabamaCatholicResources.com

God bless!

I was unaware that Bishop Sheen ever claimed to commune vocally with Angels. Where can I find out more about this kind of piety? Because if Angels are directly, and unambiguously, vocally, answering questions, I’ve got lots to ask of them.

 

[CMatt25]

I think as another poster referenced, their focus is so much on the Eucharist that other aspects of the Mass are given less emphasis. A priest I know gives a great homily, I don’t always agree with him but he’s a great speaker. Comes off the altar, engages in back and forth with the congregation during his homliy. Adds some humor to make it more interesting. You are likely to hear an “Amen!” coming from the pews during his homilies. But by in large for the most part I have found such experiences rare. At the church I attended Easter, the priest simply read something from a piece of paper. Boring as could be. But the music was great.

That’s another aspect I think is grossly overlooked. The importance of uplifting music to stir the hearts of the faithful. If the only thing of importance was the Eucharist then why not simply gather for it?

 

[Scoobyshme]

This is quite false.! My grandfather was a Southern Baptist, and he was ordained, and a preacher of several small congregations in SW Missouri, and Oklahoma, and he had a bachelors degree, a M.Div from William Jewel seminary, and PhD in Ministry from Southwest Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas. Likewise my Uncle was at one time an ordained Baptist minister, and he likewise had an M.Div from William Jewel seminary.

When Catholics refer to someone being “ordained” we mean that they received the Sacrament of Holy Orders. Since Baptists do not have Apostolic Succession, they cannot received the Sacrament of Holy Orders.

So, while we and the Baptists may use the same word (ordained), it is not the same thing.

Catholics acknowledge two valid Sacraments in the Baptist denomination. Baptism and Matrimony. The others require Apostolic Succession.

 

[HereticalTheist]

When Catholics refer to someone being “ordained” we mean that they received the Sacrament of Holy Orders. Since Baptists do not have Apostolic Succession, they cannot received the Sacrament of Holy Orders.

So, while we and the Baptists may use the same word (ordained), it is not the same thing.

Catholics acknowledge two valid Sacraments in the Baptist denomination. Baptism and Matrimony. The others require Apostolic Succession.

Young Thinker did not say “Baptist preachers are not ordained in the Catholic Church.” They said they were not Ordained. That is a false claim. They are ordained after their own fashion. Obviously they do not take Holy Orders. How stupid do you think I am? Seriously? If young thinker was talking about Catholic ordination then they need to make that clear.

 

[PJM]

=brb3;6511796]You make good points, but again … is Father Corapi WRONG in his judgment ?

After hearing Corapi or Sheen, I don’t find myself ‘focusing’ on them. They are always Lifting Up Christ and giving Christ the glory, as a true Pastor must.

I think that if the Protestant churches had a valid Eucharist, they would be less prone to focus on their pastors, less risk of putting the pastor on the throne. Nevertheless, was it not Paul who taught his Churches to IMITATE him, as he imitated Christ ?

Christ teaches in OT scriptures, that TRUE SHEPHERDS are valued, and when false shepherds take over, they will be exposed/deposed.

Not only are you correct; but even more amazing is that only Ctholics have the fullness of truth to draw from.

Perhaps that’s the problem? Protestants must make there views sound convincing, while priest just “put it out there” and let the congregation feed from the PLENTY?

Sacraism here:blush:

I think the real problem is fear of losing and offending those in the pews. WWJD?

 

[Scoobyshme]

Young Thinker did not say “Baptist preachers are not ordained in the Catholic Church.” They said they were not Ordained. That is a false claim. They are ordained after their own fashion. Obviously they do not take Holy Orders. How stupid do you think I am? Seriously? If young thinker was talking about Catholic ordination then they need to make that clear.

Let me try again. Read slowly, if you must, and as many times as it takes.

I clearly showed that the word “ordained” means something different to Catholics than to Baptists. To Catholics, this means receiving the Sacrament of Holy Orders. To Baptists, it does not, nor can it, since they cannot receive Holy Orders.

When Young Thinker said Baptist preachers are ‘not ordained’ I believe he was referring to “ordained” in the Catholic understanding of the word. If so, he was correct.