Why can't protestants see that Sola Scriptora is broken?

[TheSufi]

If there is an ELCA parish down the street, that would probably be a reasonable request.
Situations vary, as the statement linked shows.

iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/mosynod/web/clcommunion.html

It is, ironically, very similar to Catholic and Orthodox practices.

Jon

All the churches outside the protestant movement are pretty similar. The Churches outside the Protestant movements can also tie themselves back to one of the disciples of Jesus.

The Greek Orthodox back to the disciple of Jesus, Andrew.
The Antiochian/Syrian Orthodox Church back to Peter.
The Latin Catholic Church back to Peter also.
The Ethiopian Orthodox back to the disciple of Jesus, Philip.
The Indian (Malankara) Orthodox Syrian back to the disciple of Jesus, Thomas.
The Coptic Orthodox back to the disciple of Jesus, Mark.

 

[JonNC]

All the churches outside the protestant movement are pretty similar. The Churches outside the Protestant movements can also tie themselves back to one of the disciples of Jesus.

The Greek Orthodox back to the disciple of Jesus, Andrew.
The Antiochian/Syrian Orthodox Church back to Peter.
The Latin Catholic Church back to Peter also.
The Ethiopian Orthodox back to the disciple of Jesus, Philip.
The Indian (Malankara) Orthodox Syrian back to the disciple of Jesus, Thomas.
The Coptic Orthodox back to the disciple of Jesus, Mark.

And yet, they are not all in communion with each other.

Jon

 

[Protestor]

I said support not teach. I already admitted that no one verse says sola scripture. If it did we would not be having this discussion. I did not think that I needed to go down the long dark road of 2peter and what can and cannot be gleaned from it and I can after my finals tuesday. How about you make a post on tues I’ll respond just makes sure that it is in either the non-Catholic or the sacred scripture or philosophy section those are the only ones I check or you can message me

 

[concretecamper]

From Newman:

The problem is in the 4th century, jurisdictions are defined, as in Nicea canon 6. The Bishop of Alexandria has the same privileges in his as the Bishop of Rome in his. It isn’t that it wasn’t discussed. It was, at Nicea.

Jon

1. The ancient customs of Egypt, Libya and Pentapolis shall be maintained, according to which the bishop of Alexandria has authority over all these places since a similar custom exists with reference to the bishop of Rome. Similarly in Antioch and the other provinces the prerogatives of the churches are to be preserved. In general the following principle is evident: if anyone is made bishop without the consent of the metropolitan, this great synod determines that such a one shall not be a bishop. If however two or three by reason of personal rivalry dissent from the common vote of all, provided it is reasonable and in accordance with the church’s canon, the vote of the majority shall prevail.

This is not about primacy

 

[TheSufi]

And yet, they are not all in communion with each other.

Jon

Yeah, I know. Isn’t that crazy? But their beliefs and practices are very similar.

Perhaps there isn’t a Gospel passage on the importance of communicating between the believers.

 

[Nicea325]

From Newman:

The problem is in the 4th century, jurisdictions are defined, as in Nicea canon 6. The Bishop of Alexandria has the same privileges in his as the Bishop of Rome in his. It isn’t that it wasn’t discussed. It was, at Nicea.

Jon

Okay,but that still does not change the historical facts and cases where Bishops of leading Sees traveling to Rome to bring forth serious cases? Why wasn’t it settled at home by its own bishop? If canon 6 restricts all bishops,then evidently all Sees violated canon 6.

 

[JonNC]

Stop praying and act.

I’m here. Dad used to say, “it takes two to tango”. Hopefully our leaders on both sides are tango-ing. (hmmm, not quite the visual image I was trying to present.)

Jon

 

[TheSufi]

I think I would be Orthodox (or Catholic) over Protestant, if I had to pick though.

 

[Karen107]

That’s bad theology from a Roman Catholic standard. As your church recognizes that the Orthodox have valid communion but still are divided.

This is what I believe. Jesus draws souls to him through the Church through Mary, Joseph and the Apostles. Martin Luther strayed from the very foundation of Christian beliefs. The protestant bibles don’t even look the same. I don’t believe they view Mary the same way we do, as Mother of the Church. Do they? How can one be part of the body, when the members all view God from their own personal perspectives? God speaks with one voice through the Church and I believe Orthodox Christians still hear that voice. I believe Orthodox Christians are in unity with each other as the Catholic church is because we are from the same beliefs. Protestant theology is a whole other thing where each persons faith is guided according to their own lights. That’s a set up for division from the get go which is why so many denominations of Christians came from it. If I don’t agree with you, I’ll start my own religion sort of thing. Do you see the disorder in that?

 

[TheSufi]

This is what I believe. Jesus draws souls to him through the Church through Mary, Joseph and the Apostles. Martin Luther strayed from the very foundation of Christian beliefs. The protestant bibles don’t even look the same. I don’t believe they view Mary the same way we do, as Mother of the Church. Do they? How can one be part of the body, when the members all view God from their own personal perspectives? God speaks with one voice through the Church and I believe Orthodox Christians still hear that voice. I believe Orthodox Christians are in unity with each other as the Catholic church is because we are from the same beliefs. Protestant theology is a whole other thing where each persons faith is guided according to their own lights. That’s a set up for division from the get go which is why so many denominations of Christians came from it. If I don’t agree with you, I’ll start my own religion sort of thing. Do you see the disorder in that?

My biggest problem with Protestant Christianity is lack of spirituality.

1> Orthodox Christianity has the best methods of attaining spirituality
2. Catholics are second in line.
3. Protestant, not really sure where they stand with that. they seem to be lacking in that department.

 

[House_Harkonnen]

My biggest problem with Protestant Christianity is lack of spirituality.

1> Orthodox Christianity has the best methods of attaining spirituality
2. Catholics are second in line.
3. Protestant, not really sure where they stand with that. they seem to be lacking in that department.

What a glib assessment.

How would you even begin to make such an assessment? Especially when you (self admittedly) aren’t even sure of Protestant spirituality at all?

 

[House_Harkonnen]

This is what I believe. Jesus draws souls to him through the Church through Mary, Joseph and the Apostles. Martin Luther strayed from the very foundation of Christian beliefs. The protestant bibles don’t even look the same. I don’t believe they view Mary the same way we do, as Mother of the Church. Do they? How can one be part of the body, when the members all view God from their own personal perspectives? God speaks with one voice through the Church and I believe Orthodox Christians still hear that voice. I believe Orthodox Christians are in unity with each other as the Catholic church is because we are from the same beliefs. Protestant theology is a whole other thing where each persons faith is guided according to their own lights. That’s a set up for division from the get go which is why so many denominations of Christians came from it. If I don’t agree with you, I’ll start my own religion sort of thing. Do you see the disorder in that?

I believe Orthodox Christians are in unity with each other as the Catholic church is because we are from the same beliefs.

You aren’t allowed to take communion at an Orthodox Church, why would they deny you communion if they still hear Gods voice? Seems they aren’t as unified with you as you’d like to admit.

Protestant theology is a whole other thing where each persons faith is guided according to their own lights. That’s a set up for division from the get go which is why so many denominations of Christians came from it. If I don’t agree with you, I’ll start my own religion sort of thing. Do you see the disorder in that?

Why is there so many churches that claim to have the right iteration of sacred tradition to the exclusion of all others? Seems that sacred tradition has failed, and is a recipe for disunity.

 

[TheSufi]

What a glib assessment.

How would you even begin to make such an assessment? Especially when you (self admittedly) aren’t even sure of Protestant spirituality at all?

I attended several protestant services as a child. One grandmother was Baptist and the other grandmother was Methodist. I wouldn’t say they were spiritual at all. Religious yes, spiritual nope.

The most Spiritual protestant movement that I’ve been too, was the Pentecostals. I would say only a few of them were spiritual, but they were naturally spiritually, born that way. They don’t have a method for transforming, an average joe smoo into a spiritual giant, someone who can witness God directly.

The Orthodox Church has an active method for acquiring the Holy Spirit. Yes, one can have the Holy Spirit descend upon one, but if one cannot read or embrace the spirit, There is very little benefit in having the holy spirit. What good does it do one to sit in a room with books written in Greek if one cannot read Greek. There needs to be some training of one’s spirit to be able to read spiritual things. (Jesus said, I have many things to say unto but you cannot bear them yet). Do you think he was speaking intellectually?

What do you think it means to be born in spirit?

God is spirit and must be worshipped in spirit. Or when Paul speaks of praying ceaselessly. Or Paul going up to the third heavens, not knowing whether one was in the body or out of the body.

Yes, Protestants know nothing of these spiritual things. And can’t even expound upon them at any level, except what is written (ie quote the words)

Orthodox and Catholic Spiritual masters (abbots) experience these things directly and can teach you how to attain these spiritual heights.

 

[concretecamper]

House Harkonnen:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karen107

This is what I believe. Jesus draws souls to him through the Church through Mary, Joseph and the Apostles. Martin Luther strayed from the very foundation of Christian beliefs. The protestant bibles don’t even look the same. I don’t believe they view Mary the same way we do, as Mother of the Church. Do they? How can one be part of the body, when the members all view God from their own personal perspectives? God speaks with one voice through the Church and I believe Orthodox Christians still hear that voice. I believe Orthodox Christians are in unity with each other as the Catholic church is because we are from the same beliefs. Protestant theology is a whole other thing where each persons faith is guided according to their own lights. That’s a set up for division from the get go which is why so many denominations of Christians came from it. If I don’t agree with you, I’ll start my own religion sort of thing. Do you see the disorder in that?

Quote:

I believe Orthodox Christians are in unity with each other as the Catholic church is because we are from the same beliefs.

You aren’t allowed to take communion at an Orthodox Church, why would they deny you communion if they still hear Gods voice? Seems they aren’t as unified with you as you’d like to admit.

Quote:

Protestant theology is a whole other thing where each persons faith is guided according to their own lights. That’s a set up for division from the get go which is why so many denominations of Christians came from it. If I don’t agree with you, I’ll start my own religion sort of thing. Do you see the disorder in that?

Why is there so many churches that claim to have the right iteration of sacred tradition to the exclusion of all others? Seems that sacred tradition has failed, and is a recipe for disunity.

you stated it incorrectly, while so many churches claim to have the right iteration of sacred tradition, those so many churches have rejected Sacred Tradition for man made ideas. The RCC being the one to hold the Tradition handed down by Christ.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

 

[concretecamper]

JonNC:

Quote:

Originally Posted by concretecamper

Stop praying and act.

I’m here. Dad used to say, “it takes two to tango”. Hopefully our leaders on both sides are tango-ing. (hmmm, not quite the visual image I was trying to present.)

Jon

your partner ( The Lord) is patiently waiting. God Bless

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

 

[JonNC]

I think I would be Orthodox (or Catholic) over Protestant, if I had to pick though.

If proselytizing were allowed, I’d encourage you to pick one. Alas, it isn’t allowed

Jon

 

[Kliska]

Yes, Protestants know nothing of these spiritual things.

This is funny.

You do understand that every single person who is Christian, whether protestant, RC, or Ortho, agrees that Muslims don’t know the real and true Jesus, who was not just a prophet, nor do Muslims worship Him as they should. You speak of that which you do not either understand or accept when you invoke the Holy Spirit who is a Person of the Triune Godhead.

Of course you don’t believe sola scriptura would work, as the current Christian scriptures, from a Muslim perspective, contain errors. You therefore do something no Christian would do; malign the word of God.

If you are trying to talk about mysticism, there are mystics in Protestant circles, Catholic circles, and Ortho circles; in all three camps there are those that believe we can directly experience the Lord.

 

[TheSufi]

This is funny.

You do understand that every single person who is Christian, whether protestant, RC, or Ortho, agrees that Muslims don’t know the real and true Jesus, who was not just a prophet, nor do Muslims worship Him as they should. You speak of that which you do not either understand or accept when you invoke the Holy Spirit who is a Person of the Triune Godhead.

Of course you don’t believe sola scriptura would work, as the current Christian scriptures, from a Muslim perspective, contain errors. You therefore do something no Christian would do; malign the word of God.

If you are trying to talk about mysticism, there are mystics in Protestant circles, Catholic circles, and Ortho circles; in all three camps there are those that believe we can directly experience the Lord.

Theologically, sure, Muslims and Christians will disagree.

But I am not discussing theology right now, I am speaking on spirituality.

I never said there weren’t spiritual protestants, I just don’t believe they have a method for the average person to acquire such spiritual heights. And most protestant pastors are ignorant of spiritual things. They know the bible, very knowledgeable about the bible, but they don’t know spiritual things.

 

[Marie5890]

Well often times, Catholicism, in terms of the people, gets bogged down with little “t” traditions, sort of similar to what the Jews faced in the time of Christ when their leaders placed all kinds of undue burdens on them…

Discernment is needed to wade thru and understand what reflects spiritual realites…

 

[House_Harkonnen]

I attended several protestant services as a child. One grandmother was Baptist and the other grandmother was Methodist. I wouldn’t say they were spiritual at all. Religious yes, spiritual nope.

The most Spiritual protestant movement that I’ve been too, was the Pentecostals. I would say only a few of them were spiritual, but they were naturally spiritually, born that way. They don’t have a method for transforming, an average joe smoo into a spiritual giant, someone who can witness God directly.

The Orthodox Church has an active method for acquiring the Holy Spirit. Yes, one can have the Holy Spirit descend upon one, but if one cannot read or embrace the spirit, There is very little benefit in having the holy spirit. What good does it do one to sit in a room with books written in Greek if one cannot read Greek. There needs to be some training of one’s spirit to be able to read spiritual things. (Jesus said, I have many things to say unto but you cannot bear them yet). Do you think he was speaking intellectually?

What do you think it means to be born in spirit?

God is spirit and must be worshipped in spirit. Or when Paul speaks of praying ceaselessly. Or Paul going up to the third heavens, not knowing whether one was in the body or out of the body.

Yes, Protestants know nothing of these spiritual things. And can’t even expound upon them at any level, except what is written (ie quote the words)

Orthodox and Catholic Spiritual masters (abbots) experience these things directly and can teach you how to attain these spiritual heights.

What a silly and arrogant assessment.

Can you read the hearts of Protestants that you have assessed them in such a way?