Why can't women simply say "I'm not interested." to men?

[on_the_hill]

I’m fully on board with the idea that guys miss cues. I missed lots, and some of them were very blatantly obvious ( in hindsight).

But if a guy misses the cues, it’s not really the woman’s fault if she loses interest.

And if a guy makes a move when he shouldn’t, well…pick youself up, dust yourself off, and move on. What’s a good analogy…? One of my daughters is reserved. She’s unlikely to initiate anything. She’s unlikely to respond much to a guy’s “moves.” Shes shy.

My other daughter is the opposite. She walks into a room and she knows/beloved/has faith that everyone in that room wants to talk to her. And she will talk to everyone. And if someone doesn’t respond, she’ll simply move on to the next person.

 

[pianistclare]

If the OP is married…then why does he have a dog in the fight?
:coffeeread:

Seems like a person should be over all that by now.

 

[chevalier]

Right.

Some of the saddest relationship stories you’ll hear are of men or women who pursued people that were indifferent to them and “won” them.

I’ve probably mentioned this before on this thread, but I feel like (past the first few dates) there ought to be real enthusiasm on both sides.

+1

Unfortunately, men are winning-orientated and some women expect to be won over with interest on their side not entering the picture (until it does… as in interest in someone else).

I’m fully on board with the idea that guys miss cues. I missed lots, and some of them were very blatantly obvious ( in hindsight).

Women also do. They fail to get hints, send hints that don’t work or send mixed signals just like everybody else.

But if a guy misses the cues, it’s not really the woman’s fault if she loses interest.

Only because it’s hard to speak of anybody’s fault here anyway. Communication always has two sides, two parties. Can’t assign the blame to the man just because of being a man. It’s more of a simple misunderstanding.

And if a guy makes a move when he shouldn’t, well…pick youself up, dust yourself off, and move on.

Timings are overrated. Yes, they matter, but they shouldn’t control people’s lives in an absolute way. I tend to associate expectation of perfect timing with excessive desire for comfort and control, i.e. having what you want when you want it, as opposed to needing to adapt mutually to others and communicate in a way that works. And people need to adapt to each other, learn about others, watch and understand their reactions etc. as opposed to wanting their way in everything.

 

[chevalier]

The fact of the matter is that nice behavior from a woman to a man is no guarantee of a romantic interest.

Yes. Even though some women use it as a manifestation of romantic interest and possibly wonder how come the guy isn’t picking up the cues, it’s still not a guarantee of romantic interest.

And yes, a man can either be scolded or face some other sort of knee-jerk reaction the moment he intimates some sort of romantic interest that isn’t reciprocated. As if he were sexually harassing that woman, as if the existence or not of sexual harassment depended on whether the guy is attractive or not. However, I wouldn’t attribute too much blame there, since those are first of all women who can’t find themselves in the situation and don’t know how to act.

These myths are lies that build a guy up and often result in taring him down. Then when he develops a chip on his shoulder when it comes to the opposite sex, we chastise him for not wanting to commit or being shallow.

Yeah.

Suppose he had tried to kiss you, you weren’t clear that you didn’t want to kiss, but he was trying to do “what the man is supposed to do” according to this dynamic you speak of. Perhaps in most cases things like this get worked out, but for the ones that it doesn’t this thinking creates serious problems.

I was in a situation like that once, and it didn’t create problems for me, but only because it was with a friend who liked me, respected me and realized she had sent mixed signals (because she had confused feelings at that time). It led to a relationship (which didn’t last) about a month after the initial rebuff. I was actually over her when she came to me to talk. Anyway, in today’s insane world, this could be interpreted as sexual harassment… but perhaps not without reason. I generally always have asked the woman, never presuming unless the relationship was very clear on that point. When it turns out the woman didn’t want it, it does feel like you’ve committed an act of harassment/molestation, which feels awful and probably for a reason. Because, while a person who has been flirting has little to complain about, those situations sometimes involve a legitimate misunderstanding, and in such a case the woman on the receving end of a surprise kiss may very well feel violated.

A woman has nothing to loose by asking a guy out. A guy on the other hand does have something to loose.

Yes, but only because a man automatically becomes a criminal the moment the woman isn’t interested in him. Without this factor it would be the same.

What I am saying is that unless a woman says she is thinking about things going that direction a man can never really be sure that her acts of kindness are anything more than just acts of kindness.

That works both ways.

Just because a woman wants to spend a million hours together and invite you to a party, that doesn’t mean she’s looking for more. Maybe she just wants a good friend that isn’t after her for something. Yet if a guy tries to make something more of it he stands to be branded “just another guy.”

Those are more complicated situations and sometimes they involve some sort of dating without dating or whatever one should call it, as well as a good dose of denial.

 

[Xantippe]

Timings are overrated.

With obvious exceptions–like hitting on the widow at the funeral.

Yes, they matter, but they shouldn’t control people’s lives in an absolute way. I tend to associate expectation of perfect timing with excessive desire for comfort and control, i.e. having what you want when you want it, as opposed to needing to adapt mutually to others and communicate in a way that works. And people need to adapt to each other, learn about others, watch and understand their reactions etc. as opposed to wanting their way in everything.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

If being a fly on the wall worked for flyonthewall86, bless him.

But his method of waiting for a woman to make the first move is very unrealistic for most men. Take me, for instance, I am of such average appearance I melt into crowds. On top of which I am deeply introverted. Eligible women at Mass do not notice me. So if I follow flyonthewall’s method, I most definitely will be living in a nursing home before a woman shows me that kind of interest, if only because there are so few men left at their age. (sidebar: everyone should visit a nursing home one of these days, trust me, it’s a real eye opener.) So if I’m not willing to wait that long, I have to get out of the house and take risks to elicit that interest from women, that is all there is to it and no amount of whining will change that fact. Life ain’t fair, deal with it. In short, for most men all life is risk and fair or not, most men measure themselves and are measured by others for how well they act on it.

On the original topic, it’s already been discussed to death how to read and react to the non-verbal cues given off by women who aren’t interested but won’t say so. Best part of this thread. After 26 pages, do we need to bring in another dead horse?

 

[chevalier]

With obvious exceptions–like hitting on the widow at the funeral.

I’ll grant you that.

(Though I’d be very, very happy if someone actually managed to find someone during my funeral, and it would fill me with a great deal of satisfaction. )

On a serious note, socially inept people who have ill timings are one thing, socially inept people who expect everything to happen at an ideal timing* are another.

• Without even knowing beforehand what that timing would be, only that: ‘this isn’t the right moment.’ And it not being the ‘right moment’ is letting go of who knows (without finding out) if not one of the few best chances one gets in life of not dying a spinster (or bachelor).

Men are notorious for commitment issues until they find it in themselves to settle down, but women on the other hand tend to put too much emphasis on compliance or non-compliance with some sort of imaginary ideal schedule that probably often doesn’t even exist (not even in imagination, at least in any defined way).

(Obviously not talking about how one, well, doesn’t follow that pretty/handsome thing at a funeral. Although as a good uncle, I will certainly instruct my (great-) nephews and nieces to go for it even during my own funeral.)

 

[flyonthewall86]

If being a fly on the wall worked for flyonthewall86, bless him.

But his method of waiting for a woman to make the first move is very unrealistic for most men. Take me, for instance, I am of such average appearance I melt into crowds. On top of which I am deeply introverted. Eligible women at Mass do not notice me. So if I follow flyonthewall’s method, I most definitely will be living in a nursing home before a woman shows me that kind of interest, if only because there are so few men left at their age. (sidebar: everyone should visit a nursing home one of these days, trust me, it’s a real eye opener.) So if I’m not willing to wait that long, I have to get out of the house and take risks to elicit that interest from women, that is all there is to it and no amount of whining will change that fact. Life ain’t fair, deal with it. In short, for most men all life is risk and fair or not, most men measure themselves and are measured by others for how well they act on it.

On the original topic, it’s already been discussed to death how to read and react to the non-verbal cues given off by women who aren’t interested but won’t say so. Best part of this thread. After 26 pages, do we need to bring in another dead horse?

There is a difference between “not making the first move” and being a “fly on the wall.” The “fly on the wall” does not care to engage the crowd so he does not get noticed. That is a matter of choice. I never said I didn’t engage the “crowd” in some way. I put on my usual self, cast my net, and waited for someone of interest to get caught in it. I was not about to go chasing the fish with the bait to hook her or so to speak. See the difference?

The problem with a lot of guys is that we tell them they have to be the mover and shaker to attract women as if women can’t be attracted to them for who they are. Love is not controllable. It is not some power that can be wielded to obtain a desired outcome. The reason a lot of guys get passed up is because they are too busy trying to decipher the mythical “feminine arts” instead of developing their own independent “masculine arts” that are irresistible to women.

 

[Xantippe]

There is a difference between “not making the first move” and being a “fly on the wall.” The “fly on the wall” does not care to engage the crowd so he does not get noticed. That is a matter of choice. I never said I didn’t engage the “crowd” in some way. I put on my usual self, cast my net, and waited for someone of interest to get caught in it. I was not about to go chasing the fish with the bait to hook her or so to speak. See the difference?

The problem with a lot of guys is that we tell them they have to be the mover and shaker to attract women as if women can’t be attracted to them for who they are. Love is not controllable. It is not some power that can be wielded to obtain a desired outcome. The reason a lot of guys get passed up is because they are too busy trying to decipher the mythical “feminine arts” instead of developing their own independent “masculine arts” that are irresistible to women.

I’m going to tell you a BIG secret.

There’s nothing that is irresistible to all women. For one thing, some women are simply not physically attracted to men or maybe not to anybody at all. For another, if the circumstances are very bad (example–she’s recently been sexually assaulted by somebody else), it’s not going to work. And lastly, if a woman is madly in love with somebody else, they almost literally can’t see or hear other people.

So, there is no sure-fire method for attracting every woman.

 

[chevalier]

So, there is no sure-fire method for attracting every woman.

Other than chocolate.

 

[on_the_hill]

as if women can’t be attracted to them for who they are. Love is not controllable.

Well…the guy has to make an attempt at making himself attractive. I’ve known a lot of guys who dressed like they just rolled out of bed, didn’t put a priority on personal appearance, etc., then claim “this is who I am–take it or leave it.” And they were always left.

Love may not be controllable, but acting on it certainly is.

 

[pianistclare]

Women say they are not interested all the time.
You want bluntness?
Then we can wait around for the “why are women so mean?” thread.
:compcoff:

Seriously…if one is having trouble getting dates one needs to take stock, look in the mirror, ask a trusted woman friend or relative, coworker, (if you have one,) and ask the hard questions:
Am I sabotaging my chances?
How?
Am if perceived as odd, aggressive, or immature?
Why?
Would you, my trusted female friend, set me up on a blind date with one of your friends?
Why not?

And then listen.
Adjust.
Re-boot.

Asking why they don’t just come out and say they’re not interested is no different than us saying “why don’t you just find a nice girl?”
There’s some effort involved.

 

[chevalier]

Women say they are not interested all the time.
You want bluntness?
Then we can wait around for the “why are women so mean?” thread.

Generally +1, but to be a bit more specific: it’s possible to be clear without being mean.

They key is to be and act:

— not creeped out by that person (and no venting, either)
— confident
— straight to the point
— but tactful, i.e. not saying things in an offensive manner, just the facts and no comprehensive feedback
— substantive communication, no PR cheat sheet with stilted phrases in a flow chart

‘Do unto others…’ can also help.

Basically imagine be declining (not: rejecting, dumping etc.) a surprisingly romantically interested distant cousin, dear friend, a friend’s sibling, or a person with some title to respect and consideration.

There’s a reason some young men fear women and older men are disenchanted.

Well…the guy has to make an attempt at making himself attractive. I’ve known a lot of guys who dressed like they just rolled out of bed, didn’t put a priority on personal appearance, etc., then claim “this is who I am–take it or leave it.” And they were always left.

True, but there are also good-looking, well-dressed and neat and all-round attractive men and women who don’t seem to be able to find someone or always get rejected in favour of someone else. I used to belong to that group too (lost the good look around 30).

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

There is a difference between “not making the first move” and being a “fly on the wall.” The “fly on the wall” does not care to engage the crowd so he does not get noticed. That is a matter of choice. I never said I didn’t engage the “crowd” in some way. I put on my usual self, cast my net, and waited for someone of interest to get caught in it. I was not about to go chasing the fish with the bait to hook her or so to speak. See the difference?

You need to pick a different username; you could have fooled me…

The problem with a lot of guys is that we tell them they have to be the mover and shaker to attract women as if women can’t be attracted to them for who they are. Love is not controllable. It is not some power that can be wielded to obtain a desired outcome. The reason a lot of guys get passed up is because they are too busy trying to decipher the mythical “feminine arts” instead of developing their own independent “masculine arts” that are irresistible to women.

I’m telling you most men do not get anywhere doing what you do. Something you are just not getting. It has been my experience that most women do not notice most men, they tend to have eyes for the few men who do catch their attention. The rest of us aren’t so lucky, we have to act on our interest to get any interest back. I’ve a few “masculine” arts I’m good at, but I am still not getting noticed unless I say hello to and escalate the conversation with women who interest me. And risk getting rejected in the process.

Well…the guy has to make an attempt at making himself attractive. I’ve known a lot of guys who dressed like they just rolled out of bed, didn’t put a priority on personal appearance, etc., then claim “this is who I am–take it or leave it.” And they were always left.

Love may not be controllable, but acting on it certainly is.

This.

 

[Xantippe]

Other than chocolate.

There is that.

There have got to be some women who hate chocolate, but I can’t say that I’ve ever met one.

 

[flyonthewall86]

I’m going to tell you a BIG secret.

There’s nothing that is irresistible to all women. For one thing, some women are simply not physically attracted to men or maybe not to anybody at all. For another, if the circumstances are very bad (example–she’s recently been sexually assaulted by somebody else), it’s not going to work. And lastly, if a woman is madly in love with somebody else, they almost literally can’t see or hear other people.

So, there is no sure-fire method for attracting every woman.

I’m well aware of that as that is a given. Most guys however do not want to attract “all women.” They want just 1 that will settle down with them and have a family. I’m sure there is something that every man / woman finds absolutely marvelous about the opposite sex if they are straight. Clearly, it worked in my case. I went about my business and my wife wanted to tag along. If people can’t see another for their unseen value then that’s probably not someone you want to be with in the first place.

It’s understandable that women prefer men to do all the “heavy lifting” when it comes to a relationship. It is human nature to want to minimize the effort being put in and maximize the pleasure being drawn out. People are like electricity. We want the path with the least resistance. Unfortunately when we choose that path we surrender the right to complain where it leads us but some people fail to realize that hence divorce.

I’m telling you most men do not get anywhere doing what you do. Something you are just not getting. It has been my experience that most women do not notice most men, they tend to have eyes for the few men who do catch their attention. The rest of us aren’t so lucky, we have to act on our interest to get any interest back. I’ve a few “masculine” arts I’m good at, but I am still not getting noticed unless I say hello to and escalate the conversation with women who interest me. And risk getting rejected in the process.

Most men don’t get anywhere because they spend too much time obsessing about women it doesn’t leave them much time to develop themselves in any other way. Nature has a way to motivate the “un-motivated” female. It is called a “biological clock.” One of my female friends used to be all over every guy she met at the bar because she was 28 and unmarried. All I ever heard was “when am I going to have a baby…I need a man…I want to get married…etc etc etc” and the list goes on.

Secondly, think about the laws of supply and demand. Most guys are under the impression they have to “act first” and “get out there” so they do. As a result there is a glut of assertive guys. If the male population was re-cultured to chill out and play a more conservative hand, things would change quite quickly. The only thing that wouldn’t change is nature’s biological clock…tick tock tick tock

 

[esieffe]

What ever happened to not answering the telephone?

 

[SuperLuigi]

Some couples want to relate to each other more as equals, and that’s fine. But I have a pretty strong personality, so I was really looking for a man with an even stronger one. It’s a primal thing, sue me.

That’s just natural law at work. You shouldn’t feel lower on the evolutionary chain or part of some forgotten era that needs to be buried out of modern “coolness” because of it.

I’m sure he wasn’t like “I man, you woman, we marry and live in cave.”

 

[SuperLuigi]

What ever happened to not answering the telephone?

Oh, believe me, my friend, some people just like the drama and will roll up their sleeves for a good fight.

It’s a lot different talking to someone on the phone than in-person.

 

[mdleagedguy]

This whole thread reminds me of this:

youtube.com/watch?v=pmEMMyvZHcw&list=RDpmEMMyvZHcw#t=20