Why Catholic now? Abuse reports getting worse, lost interest in Inquiry

[hawkeye]

What keeps your regular Catholic going these day? Or how about those in RCIA or Inquiry as I am?

I find it disheartening that so little outrage from within the Catholic Community is present, nor are discussions regarding the Vatican’s lack of action to resolve this, and punish those Clergy that are guilty. Reading these forums, mostly I see allot of finger-pointing to the secular media for “attacking” the CC, yet many, if not most of these allegations on sexual abuse are a reality.

I for one have found it difficult to even consider attending Mass, or continuing with the Inquiry stage at this point, with so little (name removed by moderator)ut by the Catholic community present.

Well then why follow any Christian Church, the apostles could have given up because of Judas, then you wouldn’t be Christian.

We can’t blame Jesus for Judas, and we can’t blame the Pope, the Church for wayward sinners, and we all fit into the category of sinners.

 

[jmcrae]

I believe as well the covenant of Christ is in effect. The gates of hell shall not prevail. I suppose the signs this time could be these sins of the apostolic successors for us to know them by their fruits? Preaching to us in sheep’s clothing about the sanctity of life but abusing children and covering it up in wolves clothing? I don’t know. Just putting it out there as a possibility though.

If fewer than 2% of priests can undo the whole Church, then we were finished at the very moment that Judas betrayed Christ, since he was not just a priest or Bishop; he was an Apostle. All except one of the Apostles abandoned Christ in His hour of need; if their behaviour is what we base our faith on, then we are sadly misled, indeed.

St. John didn’t let the sins of the other eleven drag him into the pit - he continued to be faithful, even when it was only him and Mother Mary standing there at the Cross. His faith and hers are why we are still here today.

 

[ausculta]

If fewer than 2% of priests can undo the whole Church, then we were finished at the very moment that Judas betrayed Christ, since he was not just a priest or Bishop; he was an Apostle. All except one of the Apostles abandoned Christ in His hour of need; if their behaviour is what we base our faith on, then we are sadly misled, indeed.

St. John didn’t let the sins of the other eleven drag him into the pit - he continued to be faithful, even when it was only him and Mother Mary standing there at the Cross. His faith and hers are why we are still here today.

If I base my opinion of a religious institution on the sins of its members (mine included), I would find all of them lacking. In fact I would also find all human ideologies and disciplines appalling.

I think that the OP may have unspoken disagreements with the tenants of our faith and is using the abuse scandal as a cover-story. Let’s be honest. Either the faith is the faith or it isn’t. I don’t judge the accuracy of medicine on the state of conscience of the practicing physician, nor the precision of mathematics on the moral disposition of the mathematician.

The abuses are clearly grave and disgusting acts. Our leadership hasn’t handled them appropriately. But the Holy Father is taking firm steps to address this. But can we really expect everyone to be happy with the outcome? Can we meet everyone’s expectations? Are we saints already (is penance no longer required?)? And why is our institution being held to such a higher standard? Perhaps the world expects it. Amen to that.

Pray for the Church. Pray without ceasing.

A

 

[crazzeto]

If I base my opinion of a religious institution on the sins of its members (mine included), I would find all of them lacking. In fact I would also find all human ideologies and disciplines appalling.

I think that the OP may have unspoken disagreements with the tenants of our faith and is using the abuse scandal as a cover-story. Let’s be honest. Either the faith is the faith or it isn’t. I don’t judge the accuracy of medicine on the state of conscience of the practicing physician, nor the precision of mathematics on the moral disposition of the mathematician.

The abuses are clearly grave and disgusting acts. Our leadership hasn’t handled them appropriately. But the Holy Father is taking firm steps to address this. But can we really expect everyone to be happy with the outcome? Can we meet everyone’s expectations? Are we saints already (is penance no longer required?)? And why is our institution being held to such a higher standard? Perhaps the world expects it. Amen to that.

Pray for the Church. Pray without ceasing.

A

Because it is appropriate that we should be held to a higher standard… Its true instances of abuse are certainly no worse in the Church than they are at large, but they should be quite a bit better or at least I know of many good Catholic authors and theologians who feel this way and so do I.

But that said, as you say here we can’t expect aboslute perfection, to do so is to deny the bible it’s self. More over, we can’t make a judgment that the Catholic faith is inauthentic because of this crisis, though the oppisite may be true if one thinks about it rationally for a little while.

You might be right regarding your opinion of the OP… But then again you might not be, that’s not a call I want to make. The crimes are horrifying, and I don’t expect everyone to see past it. In fact durring mystegogy (first day) my parishes RCIA director brought the issue up directly for the neofites and the sponsors who are still attending as well. It needs to be addressed, we all need to do our best to process and make sense of this.

I’ll reiterate my exhortation to the OP… Please just read all the available facts, not just what the NYT and NBC (MS/NBC) in particular have to say about it. These are secularist athiestic institutions with an agenda, and it doesn’t stop with trying to defrock the whole of the CC.

 

[soflochristmas]

Yeah I often wonder why Bill isn’t reigned in more than he is.

Let’s start by “reigning in” the hundreds of thousands of liberal extremists who don’t believe in the Church or what she teaches first. Then, maybe then, I’ll start to worry about Bill Donohue

BTW, is something he said inaccurate or did you just not like the style or message?

 

[soflochristmas]

People are much more PO’d than you think.

Unfortunately, people listening to TV assume

I think people are much less POd than you think…

…and I don’t live my life by what people who listen to TV assume.

 

[soflochristmas]

Thanks for the thoughts, but I just don’t think blaming this on the secular media is making me feel any better about associating with a Church unwilling to properly address this type of issue.

There is where I doubt your sincerity because the Church in my opinion not only has been WILLING to but has gone above PROPERLY addressing this “type” of issue.

YOu and I just see it different.

 

[lufty]

Let me first off thank all of you for contributing to this thread, and if you all don’t mind, I’d like to Quote a few of you that made contributions that I had not meditated on:

puzzleannie
you are still searching for a church home if you have come this far, so if you reject the Catholic Church for the actions of a few people, you will have to keep looking until you find a church full of perfect, sinless people, and perfect sinless leaders. I can guarantee the Catholic Church is not that place, this is definitely the place where Jesus came to call sinners and heal the spiritually sick, as he said and where we will find pussilanimous, weak, vacillating leaders who are even capable of denying him, as he predicted.

I had only minimally considered this fact, that no Church, regardless of the intent, is going to have a absence of sin, as we all are sinners. I have been drawn to the Catholic faith, on faith alone I assume (I’m still trying to figure what brought me to the CC from the atheist background I came from, but that’s another story). This distance I am feeling, as a result of the daily secular news media, amongst other issues I struggle with the CC lately(not being baptized this Easter for example due to RCIA schedules), has made me question how I should continue my exploration into Christianity. For a time recently, I have considered following my Grandfathers example of individual worship outside any Church or organization. However, you are absolutely right Puzzleannie, I seriously doubt that I will ever find a Church, or Christian person/clergy that is without sin. Perhaps I was expecting to find this from the CC, in my exploration of our Blessed Mother, and in Christ’s example.

Nevermore22
*Hey lufty, fellow RCIAer!

I decided to join the Church when news of the most current abuses were rolling in. Yet is does not discourage me. I know that God wants me to be in His Church, and that is much more important than what is going on.*

Thank you! Perhaps it is God’s will for me to be in the Catholic Church. I have suspected this, but funny, your simple statement of support really helped. Peach be with you!

Monica4316
*Lufty, it’s true that Pope Benedict is not guilty… as for the priests, the percentage of priests involved in the abuse is as much, if not less, than in other areas of society - other churches, public schools, etc.

It is true that the abuse is horrible though, and can the Church do more? sure! you might be interested in reading this article about how Pope Benedict met with abuse victims recently: news4jax.com/news/23186425/detail.html

dont let this discourage you from joining Christ’s Church. Join it for Him, not for the Bishops or the priests. Also, for every bad priest, there are at least 10 great ones… I’ve met some really holy priests. And maybe this scandal will be an occasion for the Church to be purified.*

You are right, your statement made me reflect on the conversations I have had with Fr. Xavier, my parish Priest, and the wisdom and acceptance he had given me. I think I’ll call him today.

** estesbobForum Master** Had some links to a video that explained the Catholic Church’s standpoint on protecting the innocent. It’s no longer on the 1st page of this thread, and I sure wish it still was. If the Admin or someone could point me to that again, it would be much appreciated. I was unaware of this, and perhaps this could be something that I could look into.

In a nutshell, thanks everyone for contributing. I’ve learned some good points here, yet still have some reservations with some “representatives” such as Bill Donahue, and those like him who are not a part of the Church or speak on her teachings. We are all going to have different points of view, regardless of our faith, even those that share the same faith. However, reading about how so many of you our as outraged as I am, and those seasoned veterans here who have seen this all before.
That’s actually a good point, I forgot who brought it up, but just this morning on the way to work, I heard this long news report regarding a Southern California CC coverup…it sounded like breaking news, but alas, it was resolved in 1992. If anyone has suggestions for some Catholic Armor for me, I’m all ears.:knight1:

 

[lufty]

Let’s start by “reigning in” the hundreds of thousands of liberal extremists who don’t believe in the Church or what she teaches first. Then, maybe then, I’ll start to worry about Bill Donohue

BTW, is something he said inaccurate or did you just not like the style or message?

I think his statement regarding post-pubescent males 14-17yoa, and the molestation between them and Clergy, being purely “homosexual” in nature is out of line. Regardless *if *these young “men” were same-sex-attracted, the sex between them and the Clergy is still a act of a pedophile. By trying to turn that into a gay thing, is just preposterous.

 

[crazzeto]

Lufty,

I’m glad you’re making some progress!

 

[PJM]

=lufty;6534713]That is not good enough. This kind of perversion needs to be stopped. By saying God will deal them the justice they deserve, and not actively protect innocent children…that’s turning a blind eye in my opinion.

While agreeing totally with you’re objective; I would point out that you’re not at all be objective or realistic.

Sadly this sadistic behvaior can be traced back to OT times, and every period subsequient to it.

One should also note ONLY for the sake of perspective; that there are in excess of one BILLION, FIVE HUNDRED MILLION Catholics world wide. The sick and preverted priest account for FAR LESS than one percent of the Cathlic Church Militiant. Just as a Saint can have BROAD positive efects; these demented and evil men, can too have wide NEGATIVE effects.

In BOTH cases we see freewill in action.

 

[soflochristmas]

I have been on many threads such as this and have been quite vocal about this abuse.I have zero tolerance for this sickening evil thing. The abuse and the cover up.You can make all the excuses in the world and it won’t make it ok. No matter who does the abuse and the cover up it is an abomanation. The media would have nothing to report if those in the abuse and cover up would stand up and clean house once and for all. No matter the namne of the church or organizition! I am a woman and I was abused for years and it was covered up for years, until at the age of 12 I ran from the abuser. Even then it was covered up. Annd was until at the age of 38 I was able with Gods help to expose the deed, and it still was covered up. After a lot of praying and help from God I am able to talk about this. Now if none of you out there have never had this happen then you really do not know how evil and sick it is and how it effects you the rest of your life! So my message is there are no excuses for any church or organization to continue with not cleaning house!

I have zero tolerance for this mess. And whereever the church needs cleaning just do it. Don’t continue to make excuses,As the old saying goes, STAND Up and be a man.

Who hasn’t done what you’d like to them to do? Certain bishops? And what has the Church/bishops not done that you’d like it/them to do? Remove the liberal bishops that didn’t do anything? Be more vigilant in allowing homosexuals into the priesthood? The stories I’ve seen/read… priests have been subject to a canonical process in a more timely manner than civil authorities provide. The Church has apologized. The Church has certainly been clear about its “teaching” about this (as if there was any doubt).

What exactly would you like it to do?

 

[soflochristmas]

Of Christs 12 apostles one betrayed him , one denied him 3 time and 9 ran off when he was seized. There are over 400,000 Priests in the world of which less than 5,000 have been accused of wrongdoing. No one, i mean no one is going to seperate me from Christs Church.

Oh but they’ll try.

 

[soflochristmas]

But how do you know Christ hasn’t moved His Church to someplace else so the gates of hell do not prevail?

I don’t understand the question. If Jesus identified what His Church would look like, and said “the gates of hell will not prevail against it”, than wouldn’t THAT original Church need to survive for Christ’s words to be true?

 

[soflochristmas]

I think his statement regarding post-pubescent males 14-17yoa, and the molestation between them and Clergy, being purely “homosexual” in nature is out of line. Regardless *if *these young “men” were same-sex-attracted, the sex between them and the Clergy is still a act of a pedophile. By trying to turn that into a gay thing, is just preposterous.

Well…no it’s not. Words have meanings. Let’s use them correctly. Pedophilia is not hebephilia is not ephebophilia. Seconldy, while it doesn’t matter if the victims is a boy or a girl, a young man or young women, it is pertinent to know that 90% were victims of homosexual perpetrators so that the Church can do the VERY THING many people are saying it hasn’t done yet…which is address the problem.

 

[PJM]

Originally Posted by tweetymom
I have been on many threads such as this and have been quite vocal about this abuse.I have zero tolerance for this sickening evil thing. The abuse and the cover up.You can make all the excuses in the world and it won’t make it ok. No matter who does the abuse and the cover up it is an abomanation. The media would have nothing to report if those in the abuse and cover up would stand up and clean house once and for all. No matter the namne of the church or organizition! I am a woman and I was abused for years and it was covered up for years, until at the age of 12 I ran from the abuser. Even then it was covered up. Annd was until at the age of 38 I was able with Gods help to expose the deed, and it still was covered up. After a lot of praying and help from God I am able to talk about this. Now if none of you out there have never had this happen then you really do not know how evil and sick it is and how it effects you the rest of your life! So my message is there are no excuses for any church or organization to continue with not cleaning house!

I have zero tolerance for this mess. And whereever the church needs cleaning just do it. Don’t continue to make excuses,As the old saying goes, STAND Up and be a man.

---

Tweetymom, this may be a first: I am in COMPLETE AGREEMENT with you on this!

Love and prayers,
Pat***

 

[tweetymom]

---

Tweetymom, this may be a first: I am in COMPLETE AGREEMENT with you on this!

Love and prayers,
Pat***

Well thanks be to God and thank you too.

 

[lutherlic]

What keeps your regular Catholic going these day? Or how about those in RCIA or Inquiry as I am?

I find it disheartening that so little outrage from within the Catholic Community is present, nor are discussions regarding the Vatican’s lack of action to resolve this, and punish those Clergy that are guilty. Reading these forums, mostly I see allot of finger-pointing to the secular media for “attacking” the CC, yet many, if not most of these allegations on sexual abuse are a reality.

I for one have found it difficult to even consider attending Mass, or continuing with the Inquiry stage at this point, with so little (name removed by moderator)ut by the Catholic community present.

Don’t be fooled by the press, they have an agenda to promote that has nothing to do with child sexual abuse.

In the US (I see you are in CA), there were 6 credible accusations of sexual abuse in the Church last year. We have 65,000,000 members served by 40,000 priests here. Not even one child being abused is acceptable, but no other organization can remotely claim such a low rate. Certainly not Protestant churches, the US public school system (9.6% of all their children have been sexually abused according to the US Department of Education), youth sports, etc.

The Vatican is very involved. Pope Benedict has, contrary to press reports, been very involved. It is outrageous how the press has portrayed his passion to address this societal problem. Note too that the Catholic Church is not a dictatorship. What can be done from Rome and the time it takes to do it is often not understood by non-Catholics.

Your disheartened comments appear very sincere, but please, please, please learn the truth before you make any conclusions based on mainstream press reports and those who get all their information from those.

There was a time when we could trust journalistic integrity, a search for the truth, fact checking, objective reporting, etc. No more.

 

[Lutheranteach]

I’m not Catholic, obviously, but I’d say 95% of my friends, all of my wife’s side of the family, and many of my acquaintances are. I love them all and have respect for them all, but I don’t have the respect for the Catholic Church that I once had and I’m glad that none of them even try to defend what has happened. In fact, most are quite critical of the Church and it’s responses to events. But, and I am ashamed to admit this on some levels, there are brief seconds when I look at them and think…how? How can you be Catholic after all of this? Is it only because you don’t know any of these children? If you did, would you still go to mass? Contribute to the collection plate? I also know several Catholics who don’t contribute to the parish collections but earmark donations to building maintenance funds, homeless mission, school supplies, etc. They will not give general donations anymore.

 

[Lutheranteach]

Don’t be fooled by the press, they have an agenda to promote that has nothing to do with child sexual abuse.

In the US (I see you are in CA), there were 6 credible accusations of sexual abuse in the Church last year. We have 65,000,000 members served by 40,000 priests here. Not even one child being abused is acceptable, but no other organization can remotely claim such a low rate. Certainly not Protestant churches, the US public school system (9.6% of all their children have been sexually abused according to the US Department of Education), youth sports, etc.

The Vatican is very involved. Pope Benedict has, contrary to press reports, been very involved. It is outrageous how the press has portrayed his passion to address this societal problem. Note too that the Catholic Church is not a dictatorship. What can be done from Rome and the time it takes to do it is often not understood by non-Catholics.

Your disheartened comments appear very sincere, but please, please, please learn the truth before you make any conclusions based on mainstream press reports and those who get all their information from those.

There was a time when we could trust journalistic integrity, a search for the truth, fact checking, objective reporting, etc. No more.

Blaming the press is a just a weak tactic that the guilty use.