Why Catholicism?

[jam070406]

Well naturally I disagree. I don’t think Jesus would have bothered to change Simon’s name to Peter with all that that symbolizes if he were merely talking about Peter’s faith serving as the “rock” (which frankly I’ve never understood the meaning of, as an explanation).

Me either. I hope an Orthodox can explain. And why it only pertains to them.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Well I don’t think there’s any denial of History. Maybe some misconceptions and unresolved issues created by man.

But the Church is Gods Church and His will. Do you know someone who He gave authority to start another? I fail to see where that happened.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

From my understanding everyone accepted the primacy of the Pope, but it wasn’t until after the Schism that Papal Supremacy and infallibility and whatnot came about. If I’m mistaken, then please, correct me.

Generally, doctrinal development occurs in the face of conflicting beliefs. The issue of the nature of the Pope’s primacy. Was it primacy of place (i.e. first among equals) or a more substantial primacy of authority among the successors of the Apostles. The dogmas and doctrines were not significantly and expressly developed until after the dispute among east and west was in full bloom. That is the nature of doctrinal development. That being said, there is support for the primacy of Peter in early Church history and in Scripture; but you are correct that there are good arguments on both sides. As someone said above, I think it comes down to whether or not you believe that God intended for His Church to be without a final authority on matters of doctrine and moral teaching. This does not exist in the Eastern Orthodox Church except with respect to a full episcopal council, which as a practical matter cannot happen without the bishop of Rome being in attendance.

Good luck with your search for truth. I wish you well.

Peace,
Robert

P.S. - As with many of my Catholic brothers and sisters, I wish fervently that the whole Church, both East and West were reunited so that she could finally breathe with both lungs again. If it is God’s desire, it will happen if we all remain attentive to Him.

 

[Curious_Seed]

Hello,

I recently came to the conclusion that I cannot be a Protestant. Too many things just don’t make any sense. So my question is, why Catholicism? I’ve been doing research, on both Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Both claim to be the “one true Church”, and both have decent support for the claim. Ditto for theology, there are differences, but both churches have credible arguments to back it up. However, I know that only one can be true. So I’m back to my question, why Catholocism?

Why Catholicism?

For hundreds of years - among earnest seekers of Christ’s will - a number of diverse reasons in favor, and a diverse number of reasons in opposition.

The Catholic Church is the oldest institution in history. But, old can mean senile. So, old, per se, is not necessarily a value. For nearly forever, the Catholic Church believed the Sun rotated around the Earth.

The Catholic Church was the reigning Church, in the formation of the biblical canon. Yes, but what men thought then is not always substitutional for what men think now. Scholarship shifts. Genius of antiquity is no protection from idiocy of today, and vice versa. So, no necessary merit there, either.

The Catholic Church claims inception with Peter. But, a claim does not proof make. Interpretation of what Jesus said to Peter is unsettled among biblical intellectuals. So, no go there, either.

History shows the one true Church of Christ, His Church, is manifested in a number of branches and denominations: Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox.

Each of the branches has contibuted to the whole, though each is rife with highly debatable and contentious issues.

Of course, each member of his/her branch is convinced that only he/she is enlightened.

 

[Madaglan]

Well naturally I disagree. I don’t think Jesus would have bothered to change Simon’s name to Peter with all that that symbolizes if he were merely talking about Peter’s faith serving as the “rock” (which frankly I’ve never understood the meaning of, as an explanation).

Peter speaks as representative of the Apostles. Christ addresses all the Apostles with the question, who do you say I am? Peter responds, but he does not respond independent from the other Apostles.

Roman Catholicism interprets this passage primarily as the institution of the papacy, so the emphasis is on naming Simon “Peter” and not necessarily on the faith that Peter professes, which is the context of this name change.

Orthodoxy hymnography praises St. Peter and St. Paul as leaders of the Apostles. From the Kontakion for the Feast of SS Peter and Paul:

O Lord, You have taken up to eternal rest and to the enjoyment of Your blessings the two divinely-inspired preachers, the leaders of the Apostles, for You have accepted their labors and deaths as a sweet-smelling sacrifice, for You alone know what lies in the hearts of men.
Today Christ the Rock glorifies with highest honor The rock of Faith and leader of the Apostles, Together with Paul and the company of the twelve, Whose memory we celebrate with eagerness of faith, Giving glory to the one who gave glory to them!
orthodoxwiki.org/Apostle_Peter

 

[Madaglan]

Here’s an article that explains why Evangelicals prefer Orthodoxy. 'Nuff said?

catholic.com/thisrock/1995/9504fea1.asp

The article is as much editorial as fact.

On the claim that journeys to Catholicism are more arduous for Evangelicals than journeys to Orthodoxy, and therefore truer conversions: I’ve read several books of conversion going in various directions (Catholic to Protestant, Protestant to Catholic, Protestant and Catholic to Orthodox) and those of greatest anguish of mind and spirit are those of Catholic priests becoming Protestant. The amount of anguish and spiritual torment one experiences in the conversion process, however, is no sure indicator of the truth of the religion to which one converts.

 

[Madaglan]

But primacy and supremacy are two different things, as are Roman jurisdiction and universal jurisdiction. Going from one to the other isn’t affirmation, it’s a change.

This is, in fact, the position of the Orthodox Church, as well as many Eastern Catholics.

The Pope of Rome has primacy amongst the primates of the Church, but he is not supreme over them.

 

[Madaglan]

St Peter only has one chair. who sits on the Chair today? it doesnt matter what people claim, what it matters is the truth. it seems that the chair of St Peter has been in rome from the beginning. It is in this one man that the unity of Church is.

All the bishops in unity with one another and who proclaim the true Faith sit in the Chair of Peter.

 

[ricmat]

All the bishops in unity with one another and who proclaim the true Faith sit in the Chair of Peter.

Multiple leaders works great when they have the same opinion. Not so well when it doesn’t.

I suggest to the OP that he also read John 21:15-18.

Who was Jesus talking to here? Not all the apostles.

And for that matter, John 21:11. It was Peter who dragged the net ashore with 153 fish, the number 153 symbolizing all the species of fish (of course, we are the fish).

 

[Sidheil]

Everyone is making some good points, and for the most part being very helpful. I’m still not convinced though…some of the things professed (even those declared infallibly) seem pretty far-fetched. But, of course, I’m not going to agree with everything any church says, so it all comes down to who I am willing to put my faith in. The prime issue seems to be the position of the Pope. If his current authority is valid then the RCC is true, if it is not, then EO is true. I honestly just don’t know though, and the arguments could go either way. I mean no disrespect to anyone who has posted here, and really am thankful for everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut. And of course, even if I reason out a definite conclusion, who’s to say I’m right? The final judge of truth is God. I’m sorry, I’m starting to ramble now. Just confused…it seems like the only thing that can bring this search to a conclusion is God Himself. Time for some serious prayer methinks. Please, if someone has something helpful go ahead and post it, I’ll keep checking often. Thanks again for your help!

 

[pablope]

Everyone is making some good points, and for the most part being very helpful. I’m still not convinced though…some of the things professed (even those declared infallibly) seem pretty far-fetched. But, of course, I’m not going to agree with everything any church says, so it all comes down to who I am willing to put my faith in. The prime issue seems to be the position of the Pope. If his current authority is valid then the RCC is true, if it is not, then EO is true. I honestly just don’t know though, and the arguments could go either way. I mean no disrespect to anyone who has posted here, and really am thankful for everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut. And of course, even if I reason out a definite conclusion, who’s to say I’m right? The final judge of truth is God. I’m sorry, I’m starting to ramble now. Just confused…it seems like the only thing that can bring this search to a conclusion is God Himself. Time for some serious prayer methinks. Please, if someone has something helpful go ahead and post it, I’ll keep checking often. Thanks again for your help!

I would suggest start with the Early Church Fathers…the disciples of the Apostles themselves, who were taught by them and were their successors. What did they believe?

What they believed is what early Christianity believed, right?

Then keep an open mind and heart. Surrender to where the Holy Spirit is leading you.And where you end up, is where Jesus wanted you to be.

 

[Sidheil]

But even that depends on perspective.

If I ask an Orthodox Christian what the Church Fathers believed, they would say that they acknowledged the primacy of the Bishop in Rome, but that Jerusalem had the final say. They would show several writings where early Christians condemn the idea of a universal Pope. They would point out that Papal infallibility and universal jurisdiction were made official after the Schism, and, in fact, are nowhere to be found before hand.

If I ask a Catholic, then the Bishop of Rome was always seen as the head of the Church. They would show where the Scriptures say that Peter is the foundation of Jesus’ church on earth, where Peter is given the keys to the gates of Heaven, and the power to bind and to loose. They would point out that Papal infallibility and universal jurisdiction were generally assumed until after the Schism, which is why they were made official only afterwards.

But where is the Truth?

 

[pablope]

But even that depends on perspective.

If I ask an Orthodox Christian what the Church Fathers believed, they would say that they acknowledged the primacy of the Bishop in Rome, but that Jerusalem had the final say. They would show several writings where early Christians condemn the idea of a universal Pope. They would point out that Papal infallibility and universal jurisdiction were made official after the Schism, and, in fact, are nowhere to be found before hand.

If I ask a Catholic, then the Bishop of Rome was always seen as the head of the Church. They would show where the Scriptures say that Peter is the foundation of Jesus’ church on earth, where Peter is given the keys to the gates of Heaven, and the power to bind and to loose. They would point out that Papal infallibility and universal jurisdiction were generally assumed until after the Schism, which is why they were made official only afterwards.

But where is the Truth?

I think that is why I suggested that you read them your self. Their writings are readily available. And then you have this Forum to ask questions.

Where is the Truth? You will find it when you surrender your will to God’s Divine will and providence and He will lead you to it. Just keep an open mind and heart.

God bless.

 

[Sidheil]

I think that is why I suggested that you read them your self. Their writings are readily available. And then you have this Forum to ask questions.

Where is the Truth? You will find it when you surrender your will to God’s Divine will and providence and He will lead you to it. Just keep an open mind and heart.

God bless.

Good advice, thank you.

 

[Sidheil]

Well, see, now I find that the Fourth Council gave equal rights to both the Bishops in Rome and Constantinople. That doesn’t seem to show that the Church Fathers followed universal jurisdiction, or Papal infallibility. Does it?

 

[wisdomseeker]

Why Catholicism?

For hundreds of years - among earnest seekers of Christ’s will - a number of diverse reasons in favor, and a diverse number of reasons in opposition.

The Catholic Church is the oldest institution in history. But, old can mean senile. So, old, per se, is not necessarily a value. For nearly forever, the Catholic Church believed the Sun rotated around the Earth.

The Catholic Church was the reigning Church, in the formation of the biblical canon. Yes, but what men thought then is not always substitutional for what men think now. Scholarship shifts. Genius of antiquity is no protection from idiocy of today, and vice versa. So, no necessary merit there, either.

The Catholic Church claims inception with Peter. But, a claim does not proof make. Interpretation of what Jesus said to Peter is unsettled among biblical intellectuals. So, no go there, either.

History shows the one true Church of Christ, His Church, is manifested in a number of branches and denominations: Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox.

Each of the branches has contibuted to the whole, though each is rife with highly debatable and contentious issues.

Of course, each member of his/her branch is convinced that only he/she is enlightened.

Thank God for the CC, to her Truth never changes, otherwise Truth cannot be Truth at any age. according to you there is no truth but that one i believe today.

About denominations makes up the Church, coming from you who has shown no knowledge of the Truth, it is just another self made idea contrary to God. God only has one bride and not many.

Perhaps this video will help in some way.
youtube.com/user/RealCatholicTV?feature=mhum#p/u/0/XcW7m6Na2_M

 

[veilofveronica]

Welcome to the forums, and to your study of the Faith!!

I recently returned “home” to be a Roman Catholic after years away. I considered other churches briefly on my faith walk. I decided that Roman Catholicism was the only way for me, for a number of reasons. Note that these are personal, but they might give you some insight:

1. The Eucharist: The RC Church is the ONLY Church that believes in transubstantiation, that is, that the bread and wine offered at the altar literally become the Body and Blood of our Lord. As this is something that I believe, I could not see myself going to a Church that did not profess this belief.
2. The Blessed Mother Mary: I have a great devotion to Jesus’s Mother, who , contrary to what some other denominations may say, we do not “worship” .We pray THROUGH Mary to bring us to Jesus. There is no other denomination that has a special relationship with Christ’s Mother as we do.
3. The “Original”: The RC Church is the original Church. The others splintered off for various reasons. I’m not trying to insult our Protestant friends, for whom I have great respect, but for me, the fact that our Church is the original Church, and is not tied to a specific area, culture, or breakaway, told me a lot.
4. The Mass: No matter where you go in the world, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the same, Universal.
5. The Saints: Similar to #2.
6. The Sacraments.

I have so many other reasons, but those are some of the main ones!

God Bless you.

 

[The_Old_Medic]

Please, show me anywhere in the Bible, where Jesus refers to Peter’s “Confession of Faith”.

The Catholic and Orthodox Churches are in reality one Church,. separated by the idiocy of mankind. Neither side will give an inch, they let their human pride keep them apart.

But both have full apostolic succession, both have completely valid Eucharist, both have completely valid orders, and both teach essentially the same faith. What keeps them apart is really just stupidity, stubbornness and pride.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

History shows the one true Church of Christ, His Church, is manifested in a number of branches and denominations: Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox.

Would you please provide scriptures showing the ‘branches’ being many denominations, with many different doctrines and teachings?

 

[504Katrin]

Also, not sure but I think that the Orthodox people believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son.
We Catholics believe that the Holy Spirit procedes from the Father.
The Protestants don’t have Priests but Pastors I think, and they don’t believe in the Eucharist as we do, so they’re completely different from us.