Why celebrate Christmas

[exoflare]

Another thing - why don’t I hear all this same angst and palaver in relation to us calling the year 2009 AD, since all of the same arguments apply? Jesus almost certainly wasn’t born in 1AD, more likely in around 4-6 BC, so why aren’t you insisting that we cease and desist using ‘2009’, since that date doesn’t refer to any significant period of Jesus’ life either?

Also, since we’re still using the Gregorian calendar (sanctioned by one of those evil popes! ) that makes it even more suspicious that you don’t hear so much commotion about it from all the self-proclaimed religious authorities out there. They should at least be consistent.

 

[jimmy]

on a day other than Christs birth?
Makes no sense.

The exact date is irrelevant. What is relevant is that it is a celebration of the incarnation. What we celebrate is the birth of God as man.

Whether individual or collective the position is nothing but arrogance.

Anyone can throw out accusations of arrogance. The atheists accuse Christians of arrogance for claiming that Jesus is the only way to salvation. All that matters is whether it is true or not. If the Catholic Church really is protected from error by the Holy Spirit then they have the fullness of truth as they claim. It is simply ad hominem to call it arrogance and it avoids the actual point.

 

[theogrit]

So your church teaches you that it is wrong to celebrate the birth and incarnation of Christ ?

No, that is not what the Church or Christ teaches. The church of my affiliation has a healthy reverence for the incarnation of our LORD, which we celebrate as appointed by God.

Your church teaches you that it is WRONG to set aside one day each year on which to specially and on purpose thank God, as a nation, for the many good things He has given you?

No, the Church and Christ teach continual thanksgiving, both for individuals and as a chosen people, as well as particular times of thanksgiving for specific graces of blessing.
But neither the Church nor Christ teach a national day of annual thanksgiving celebrating 1) the Northern victory and turning point in the War of Northern Aggression in slaughtering tens of thousands of Americans at Gettysburg and Vicksburg, which, if one reads President Lincoln’s and Secretary of State Seward’s declaration establishing America’s annual Thanksgiving Day clearly indicates; nor, 2) the countless slaughter and worse of hundreds of thousands of native peoples, which severity of propagated harms may well rival those suffered by any other group past or present, and which has led many native Americans, including the Wampanoags to whom the day often alludes, to declare the very same day a National Day of Mourning.
:hug1:

Not that I’m personally averse to others redeeming these times and days otherwise, provided they appropriately show just Christian cause, Biblical support, and a loving senstivity to those viewing the matter otherwise. As one of Christian, Southern, and Native American heritage, I appreciate a Christianity that embraces such a context.

 

[Irish_Catholic_1]

No, that is not what the Church or Christ teaches. The church of my affiliation has a healthy reverence for the incarnation of our LORD, which we celebrate as appointed by God…

And how, exactly, do you think God has “appointed” that the incarnation of our LORD be celebrated ???

 

[theogrit]

And how, exactly, do you think God has “appointed” that the incarnation of our LORD be celebrated ???

With thanksgiving.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Thanksgiving, eh? As a Christian, do you confine your Christian faith to ‘silent thanksgiving’ regarding the Incarnation, or do you go ‘public’ with your thanksgiving for said Incarnation and celebrate it not only in your church but in your daily routine?

Catholic Christians (and most Protestant Christians too) have historically not only offered silent, daily, “home-bound” thanksgiving for the Incarnation but have made public their thanksgiving this (and Christ’s suffering, death and resurrection too) not just ‘quietly alone’ when the ‘spirit moves’ but in churches, in homes, and ‘in the world’ too, on specific days where we gather together (for as Scripture tells us, “Where two or three are gathered in My name, there I am in their midst.”)

 

[Hisalone]

Actually God uses Rolex, which many Catholics possess, so I think they’re still good.

With the Protestant work ethic Protestants may own more.

 

[Irish_Catholic_1]

And how, exactly, do you think God has “appointed” that the incarnation of our LORD be celebrated ???

With thanksgiving.

Cute, but hardly an answer

 

[Hisalone]

No, its Biblical Truth

This assertion is laughably naive.
If you could make a case for it you would have in the Catholic Church cannot err thread.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

uote: Originally Posted by Byzantine_Wolf forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
Actually God uses Rolex, which many Catholics possess, so I think they’re still good.

originally posted by Hisalone: With the Protestant work ethic Protestants may own more.

Ah, but with the CATHOLIC teaching, when yours are all stopped and on the fritz, ours will still be full of good works.

 

[Hisalone]

I learned from the link you provided earlier in this thread (wiki) that it was because the ancients didn’t celebrate the birth of the “gods.”

Here’s more:
from the Catholic Encyclopedia link at the top of this page
oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Christmas

I hope you would show the same consideration and read the links we take the time to research and provide for you.

Thanks for the link, I didnt know I was going to have to read a book.
So early Christians never celebrated Christs birth.
We celebrate Christmas on Dec 25th because of tradition.
This tradition did not come from the apostles.
How many other “traditions” practiced in Catholicsm are not apostolic???

 

[jmcrae]

Thanks for the link, I didnt know I was going to have to read a book.
So early Christians never celebrated Christs birth.
We celebrate Christmas on Dec 25th because of tradition.
This tradition did not come from the apostles.
How many other “traditions” practiced in Catholicsm are not apostolic???

Uh - most of the ones that are merely disciplinary, rather than dogmatic.

 

[Hisalone]

Another thing - why don’t I hear all this same angst and palaver in relation to us calling the year 2009 AD, since all of the same arguments apply? Jesus almost certainly wasn’t born in 1AD, more likely in around 4-6 BC, so why aren’t you insisting that we cease and desist using ‘2009’, since that date doesn’t refer to any significant period of Jesus’ life either?

2 BC
Wait for Easter you guys really messed up on that one.

 

[Hisalone]

Anyone can throw out accusations of arrogance. The atheists accuse Christians of arrogance for claiming that Jesus is the only way to salvation. All that matters is whether it is true or not. If the Catholic Church really is protected from error by the Holy Spirit then they have the fullness of truth as they claim. It is simply ad hominem to call it arrogance and it avoids the actual point.

Lets see the RCC claims to be free from error in doctrine, do they have outside witness? NO
The RCC claims to be the One True Church, do they have outside witness? NO
now that is what Im refering to.

 

[rev_kevin]

Thanks for the link, I didnt know I was going to have to read a book.
So early Christians never celebrated Christs birth.
We celebrate Christmas on Dec 25th because of tradition.
This tradition did not come from the apostles.
How many other “traditions” practiced in Catholicsm are not apostolic???

You are correct the the early Christians never celebrated Christs birth. In the early years of Christianty Easter was the main holiday and the birth of Christ was not celebrated.

Tradition did not come from the Apostles and we celebrate it on Dec. 25th because the Roman upper class celebrated the birthday of Mithra the god of the unconqurable sun which was celebrated on Dec. 25th.

As far as the other traditions practiced by Catholicsm I don’t know but is suspect there are many.

I’m doing research on Christmas for a sermon and I want the truth about it.

 

[Zundrah]

on a day other than Christs birth?
Makes no sense.

In the news today there was a Bishop (Anglican) who denounced school christmas plays. He said they were giving children the impression of Christ being fictional.

 

[jmcrae]

Me? Not really. I believe in the Keys of St. Peter. If the Church chooses to do that sort of thing, I figure there’s a good reason in there somewhere (most likely Evangelism).

 

[dianaiad]

Indeed.

If I had a dime for every time somebody starts a “Christmas is a pagan holiday” argument, I’d have enough money to buy all the presents I want to give this year.

Of course, I always respond with 'yeah…so?" and that sort of takes all the fun out of it for 'em, but in reality it IS “yeah…so?” Symbols mean what they users claim they mean. It doesn’t MATTER whether the holly, ivy, tree and yule log used to mean something other–what they mean NOW is what counts, and what they mean now is all about the celebration of the birth of Christ.

whenver that actually was.

 

[jimmy]

Lets see the RCC claims to be free from error in doctrine, do they have outside witness? NO
The RCC claims to be the One True Church, do they have outside witness? NO
now that is what Im refering to.

Neither does Christianity have outside witness to Christ being God though.

Why would someone outside the Catholic Church assert that the Catholic Church is free from error? Their being outside the Catholic Church is a rejection in itself of the principle that is under discussion here so it is kind of a self defeating question you put forward.

It is the same for Christ being God. Christianity doesn’t have outside witness for Christ being God because the very fact of someone being a non-Christian implies a rejection of the divinity of Christ.

Don’t think I am just some typical defender of the Roman Catholic doctrine either. I have my own issues with it but lets deal with it rationally rather than emotionally. An accusation of arrogance is an emotional argument rather than a rational one.

 

[LilyM]

You are correct the the early Christians never celebrated Christs birth. In the early years of Christianty Easter was the main holiday and the birth of Christ was not celebrated.

Tradition did not come from the Apostles and we celebrate it on Dec. 25th because the Roman upper class celebrated the birthday of Mithra the god of the unconqurable sun which was celebrated on Dec. 25th.

As far as the other traditions practiced by Catholicsm I don’t know but is suspect there are many.

I’m doing research on Christmas for a sermon and I want the truth about it.

Early Christians didn’t celebrate Christ’s birth? The tradition of Christmas (date is insignificant, Orthodox celebrate it on 6 January and we have no beef with that) didn’t come from the Apostles? And how exactly have you managed to prove those two negatives - given that no early Christian ever wrote about how they emphatically DIDN’T celebrate Christmas.

It’s a bit like saying Mary must’ve died right after Pentecost because there’s no mention of her by name in the remainder of the New Testament or early Christian writings - likewise all the Apostles who didn’t write epistles.