Why celebrate Christmas

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Tantum_ergo said:
Why, I wonder, does Hisalone state that the early Christians 'never celebrated Christ’s birth?"

Was he/she there?

We have very little writing (a lot of oral tradition but His stubbornly refuses to accept **that) **from the 'early Christians. Probably because a lot of them were too busy actually living Christ’s gospel and preaching (not writing, preaching) that gospel (not to mention most of them were not literate anyway). So just because we don’t have the planner/calendar from, say, Prisca and Aquila, with things like: 10 July, get-together with Peter and James; 18 September, fund raiser for Paul, 25 December, big Christmas party, remind everybody with last name A through K to bring main course and L through Z to bring dessert --doesn’t mean that the holy day itself was not celebrated, ever. . .
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What do you expect? These are the same kind of people who think Jesus must have never used the bathroom, since it’s never mentioned in the Bible… 😊
 
Hisalone said:
Whether individual or collective the position is nothing but arrogance.
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It’s neither individual nor collective. The Church is protected from error (in certain circumstances) by God. It’s not about the people involved, one or many.
 
exoflare said:
Also, since we’re still using the Gregorian calendar (sanctioned by one of those evil popes! :eek:) that makes it even more suspicious that you don’t hear so much commotion about it from all the self-proclaimed religious authorities out there. They should at least be consistent.
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I was wondering about that. The change in dating means that something that happened on any particular day of any year before the change won’t be exactly X years before that particular day of this year. But which way is the shift? Would that Spring day’s anniversary be moved closer to August or January?

And since celebrating on the same date wouldn’t be celebrating on the true anniversary anyway, the argument about not celebrating on the actual calendar date seems all the more silly.
 
Hisalone said:
Thanks for the link, I didnt know I was going to have to read a book. 😉
So early Christians never celebrated Christs birth.
We celebrate Christmas on Dec 25th because of tradition.
This tradition did not come from the apostles.
How many other “traditions” practiced in Catholicsm are not apostolic??? :eek:
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“traditions”? Many. Do your research before blasting the CC. You’re sounding like the kid in the lecture hall who is very emphatic about his point, thinking he sounds brilliant, but is showing that he just hasn’t done the reading. 😃
 
Hisalone said:
We are not affiliated with any denomination. We are independent and you are welcome at anytime. You are confused because you might not understand how a nonDenom is started and how it operates.
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Nondenominationism was founded by man not Jesus Christ because He founded one church, the Holy Catholic Church.
 
"grit:
…or maybe April 17, 5BC. :yup:
jmcrae said:
Which is equally random, and hasn’t got any metaphysical significance.
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Neither date is random (as you wisely attest for Dec. 25), though both may be uncertain, and who says the one I listed doesn’t have science, pseudo-science, and Biblical metaphysics supportive of it? I consider that Michael Molnar has some interesting things to say. :yup:
 
Hisalone said:
We have Jesus as the source of that belief.
Your source is much more suspect.
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Your source, Independent christian churches, are suspect. The Holy Catholic Church is beyond suspect because she was founded by Jesus Christ Himself.
 
heathernoel said:
When do you celebrate His birth?

TIA,
Heather
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Hello Heather,

That is a good question, I have often wondered the same.
I live smack dab in the middle of the so called Bible belt. I have lived here for 10years.On my way to Church I pass eight different Protestant Churches. On every Christmas morning for the past ten years, on my to Christmas morning mass ,I have passed by eight emty church parking lots. Once I did ask one of my Protestant neighbors why they do not celebrate the birth of our Lord at Church on such a special day. She simply:shrug:shrugged and said " Oh, we only go to Church on Wednesdays and Sundays."Soooooooo,that’s how I figure our friend Hisalone, it is just not some thing very
many Protestants do . Carlan
 
Sword_Brethren said:
Catholics have Jesus Christ as the source of our belief.
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I believe it was Fulton Sheen who once said, “You’ve heard it said, ‘I want no church between me and Christ’…there is no church between us and Christ! The church IS Christ!”
 
Hisalone said:
The Birth of Jesus Christ.

Since Jesus was conceived six months after John the Baptist, and we have established a likely date for John’s birth, we need only move six months farther down the Jewish calender to arrive at a likely date for the birth of Jesus. From the 15th day of the 1st month, Nisan, we go to the 15th day of the 7th month, Tishri. And what do we find on that date? It is the festival of Tabernacles! The 15th day of Tishri begins the third and last festival of the year to which all the men of Israel were to gather in Jerusalem for Temple services. (Lev 23:34)

Immanuel.

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Immanuel means “God with us”. The Son of God had come to dwell with, or tabernacle on earth with His people.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The word in the Hebrew for dwelt is succah and the name of the Feast of Tabernacles in Hebrew is Sukkot, a festival of rejoicing and celebration:

Luke 2:7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
Luke 2:8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
Luke 2:9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
Luke 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
Luke 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Why was there no room at the inn? Bethlehem is only about 5 miles from Jerusalem, and all the men of Israel had come to attend the festival of Tabernacles as required by the law of Moses. Every room for miles around Jerusalem would have been already taken by pilgrims, so all that Mary and Joseph could find for shelter was a stable.

Also of note is the fact that the Feast of Tabernacles is an eight day feast (Lev 23:36, 39). Why eight days? It may be because an infant was dedicated to God by performing circumcision on the eighth day after birth:

Luke 2:21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

So the infant Jesus would have been circumcised on the eighth and last day of the Feast of Tabernacles, a Sabbath day. The Jews today consider this a separate festival from Tabernacles, and they call it Shemini Atzeret.

hol.com/~mikesch/sukkoth.htm
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So???
You have not answered the question as to why the actual date is important, is the time of day important too. I mean if the unrefutable date was given to us would you then have to know something else in order to celebrate. Is it the date or the celebration that troubles you most?
 
Carlan said:
Hello Heather,

That is a good question, I have often wondered the same.
I live smack dab in the middle of the so called Bible belt. I have lived here for 10years.On my way to Church I pass eight different Protestant Churches. On every Christmas morning for the past ten years, on my to Christmas morning mass ,I have passed by eight emty church parking lots. Once I did ask one of my Protestant neighbors why they do not celebrate the birth of our Lord at Church on such a special day. She simply:shrug:shrugged and said " Oh, we only go to Church on Wednesdays and Sundays."Soooooooo,that’s how I figure our friend Hisalone, it is just not some thing very
many Protestants do . Carlan
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Yes, that’s how it is here, too. The Catholic parking lots are crammed full on Christmas morning, but the Protestant parking lots are totally empty - not even a caretaker’s or a security guard’s car in evidence.
 
kalt said:
“traditions”? Many. Do your research before blasting the CC. You’re sounding like the kid in the lecture hall who is very emphatic about his point, thinking he sounds brilliant, but is showing that he just hasn’t done the reading. 😃
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So how many of Catholicisms’ traditions are not apostolic?
So can we say they were man made traditions?
Kalt you are like the student who only reads one side of the polemic and swears they are unbiased 😉
 
jmcrae said:
Yes, that’s how it is here, too. The Catholic parking lots are crammed full on Christmas morning, but the Protestant parking lots are totally empty - not even a caretaker’s or a security guard’s car in evidence.
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Would that be more accurate for the non-liturgical protestants?
 
Hisalone said:
So how many of Catholicisms’ traditions are not apostolic?
So can we say they were man made traditions?
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They grow out of what we know of the Traditions of the Apostles.

Let me ask you this: Would you agree that Jesus Christ is true Man and true God?

Would you agree that He was born of the virgin Mary?

These are the Traditions that come from the Apostles.

Christmas is a tradition (small “t”) that comes from these particular Traditions. It’s “man made” in the sense that it was human beings who made the connection that Christ becoming a human being is something we should all learn about and celebrate, but the truths that come to us through the tradition of Christmas are certainly Apostolic in origin.
 
Tezza said:
Would that be more accurate for the non-liturgical protestants?
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I don’t really know. I had always thought of the United Church of Canada as being at least somewhat liturgical, and yet they only have Christmas Eve - they don’t have anything for Christmas Day itself.

Do Anglicans or Lutherans celebrate on Christmas Day itself, or only on Christmas Eve?
 
Hisalone said:
So how many of Catholicisms’ traditions are not apostolic?
So can we say they were man made traditions?
Kalt you are like the student who only reads one side of the polemic and swears they are unbiased 😉
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2 Thessalonians
2: 14 “Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.”
 
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