Why celebrate Easter at a different time than Roman Catholics?

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I said it in another thread, and a part of me feels bad saying it, but part of me enjoys the fact that we get to celebrate easter without all the commercialization associated with Western Easter.

The day the West and East agree to a set method of celebrating Easter on the same day, will be a day which is both very happy, and very sad for me. 😉
Then you must be both happy and sad once every four years 😉
 
Then you must be both happy and sad once every four years 😉
If it was once every 4 years.

We celebrate together again on April 20, 2014 and again on April 16, 2017.

The next time we celebrate together after 2017 is on April 16, 2028.

That’s eleven years by my counting…😊
 
If it was once every 4 years.

We celebrate together again on April 20, 2014 and again on April 16, 2017.

The next time we celebrate together after 2017 is on April 16, 2028.

That’s eleven years by my counting…😊
All I know is my Greek Orthodox friend’s Easter coincides with ours every four years.
 
I have always wondered why Eastern Catholics celebrate Easter on a different date. I know they do but know little of why and when?
Not all of them do. Many eastern Catholics in the United States calculate Easter with the Gregorian calendar just like western Christianity does.

It’s really more determined by cultural context than by communion. Latin Catholics and Protestants in predominantly eastern Christian areas that are majority Muslim will actually use the Julian calendar, and the Eastern Orthodox in Finland use the Gregorian calendar.

So it’s not uniform.

Those eastern Catholics who do calculate Easter according to the Julian calendar do so out of solidarity with their Orthodox brethren, which is a good and noble thing.
I have used this as an argument for a difference in doctrine and discipline but would like to now look further into why we have different dates for Easter. Thanks for any help!
This is a bad example for proving there is a difference in doctrine and discipline. This difference lies in math alone - math and astronomy. Find a real difference and use that to illustrate that western and eastern Christianity are different.
Almost without exception Eastern Orthodox celebrate on the Old Calendar, in accordance with the norms as decided at the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D.
The Latin Church also conforms 100% with what Nicaea I decided in A.D. 325. It was decided then that Easter would be the first Sunday after the first full moon after March 21.

That’s exactly how everyone calculates Easter today. The problem is that Gregorian March 21 does not equal Julian March 21. But everyone uses the Nicaean formula.
I said it in another thread, and a part of me feels bad saying it, but part of me enjoys the fact that we get to celebrate easter without all the commercialization associated with Western Easter.
Yeah, that is an advantage.

There’s a ROCOR parish about twenty minutes from where I live, and they use the old Julian calendar for everything, not just to calculate Easter and the moveable feasts it determines. As a result they enjoy this advantage regarding Christmas as well, which is to me even more significant since that holiday is by far the most secularized Christian holy day.
On another note, I have heard that Latin Catholic Churches in countries like Egypt celebrate the Orthodox date so there is even variation within the Latin Church.
Exactly. I like the idea of solidarity among Christians of a given region.

And the eastern Orthodox Church doesn’t have a uniform date either… Orthodox in Finland use the Gregorian calendar in calculating Easter.
And I’m the odd one out here who think we should toss both calendars and follow the astronomical calculations of Nicea, rather than either set of tables that try to predict them . . .
The problem is that the Church after Nicaea prescribed March 21 as the starting point from which to calculate Easter. If we scrap the very notion of a fixed ecclesiastical equinox and use the real (varying) astronomical equinox (on this year the real vernal equinox is Gregorian March 20, not 21), that technically does violate what was decided right after Nicaea I - namely, that the equinox is to be reckoned March 21.

I personally don’t mind that, but plenty of Orthodox object to the idea of changing the formula.
That would be a good compromise. Use the real astronomical figures.

However I can’t see it being well liked by either Church.
Really? What makes you say that? I think the Catholic Church would be plenty happy with it. Not sure about the Orthodox, but maybe you can elaborate further for your own church as well; I’m genuinely curious! 🙂
It didn’t work even then. There was no detail given of how to make the calculation of the first Sunday after the first full Moon after the Vernal equinox. Also from Nicea, Easter should not be celebrated with the Jews, so when that occurs, it is delayed a week, but then the way the Jewish calendar is calculated changed also.
Using the precise astronomical data we have today is not something they could have tried back then. I for one think this is a great idea, although I respectfully acknowledge that many Orthodox would be unhappy with it.
As a Lector, I am annoyed when I see other Lectors read it as “Thou shalt not kill”, when I know for a fact that is NOT the Commandment!
Not their fault. The translation approved for use in the Roman rite in the United States says “kill,” not “murder,” and lectors do not have the authority to paraphrase Scripture as they read. I think you should direct your annoyance elsewhere - to the translators, or the ones who selected the NAB, etc. - but not at those who in obedience don’t change whatever they feel like when they proclaim from Sacred Scripture at Mass…
 
Those eastern Catholics who do calculate Easter according to the Julian calendar do so out of solidarity with their Orthodox brethren, which is a good and noble thing.
There is additionally a practical component at least for my parish. 🙂 I’m not sure how far back you would have to go to find a time when we were able to have festal vespers/vigil, Bridegroom services, Great Canon the first week of Great Lent, etc., due to having priests serving us who have lived at a considerable distance from the church. For these I myself and some others go to Russian Orthodox Churches, or I’m sometimes at the Greek Orthodox some week day services, much closer to my house and no bridge toll. 🙂 Even for Saturday Vespers a number of us go to various Russian Orthodox Churches. Those services are all tied to the liturgical calendar so unfortunately if I were close enough to go to the Ruthenian and the Melkite Churches here they are both on the new calendar so their services don’t mesh with ours at this time of the year.
 
Jesus celebrated Passover (Thursday) and according to any calendar Passover can fall on any day of the week. So the third day after Passover should be Easter (using the way the Jews reckon days and hours). Since the church celebrates every Sunday as an Easter, tradition dictated the celebration of the Resurrection be held on Sunday also. Some churches wanted to keep the big day special and continue to celebrate the third day after Passover, so big fight and nasty letters back and forth losing site that every Sunday is a reminder of Christ’s Resurrection. Roman’s 14 would have been a good starting point to determine what day Easter should be.
 
Jesus celebrated Passover (Thursday) and according to any calendar Passover can fall on any day of the week. So the third day after Passover should be Easter (using the way the Jews reckon days and hours). Since the church celebrates every Sunday as an Easter, tradition dictated the celebration of the Resurrection be held on Sunday also. Some churches wanted to keep the big day special and continue to celebrate the third day after Passover, so big fight and nasty letters back and forth losing site that every Sunday is a reminder of Christ’s Resurrection. Roman’s 14 would have been a good starting point to determine what day Easter should be.
The Church celebrates Easter on Sunday because that was the day of the week on which Christ’s resurrection happened.

The argument that the Church should celebrate it according to the Jewish calendar was one that was used in the early church. It was decided against.
 
There is additionally a practical component at least for my parish. 🙂 I’m not sure how far back you would have to go to find a time when we were able to have festal vespers/vigil, Bridegroom services, Great Canon the first week of Great Lent, etc., due to having priests serving us who have lived at a considerable distance from the church. For these I myself and some others go to Russian Orthodox Churches, or I’m sometimes at the Greek Orthodox some week day services, much closer to my house and no bridge toll. 🙂 Even for Saturday Vespers a number of us go to various Russian Orthodox Churches. Those services are all tied to the liturgical calendar so unfortunately if I were close enough to go to the Ruthenian and the Melkite Churches here they are both on the new calendar so their services don’t mesh with ours at this time of the year.
Ah, that makes sense!
 
Dear Friends,

The two issues, the Julian Calendar and the date of Easter/Pascha are separate ones. The calendar, whether Julian or Gregorian, does not affect the calculation of Pascha, as I understand it.

Apart from the Russian, Ukrainian, Georgian and then Old Calendarist Orthodox jurisdictions, the rest of Orthodoxy observes the “Reformed Julian Calendar” (i.e. Christmas is on Gregorian December 25th). But Easter is observed on the same date throughout Orthodoxy (except in Finland) based on the rules laid down by the early Ecumenical Councils and the Tradition of the Church.

Even if all Eastern Orthodox and Catholic Churches adopted the new calendar, this does not resolve the issue of the date of Pascha/Easter since it is governed by conciliar decrees.

The maintenance of the Old Calendar is one of those things guaranteed by Rome when the Unia of Brest was signed. One problem with adopting the Gregorian or civil calendar is that, for Ukrainians in Ukraine, it is associated with . . . communism. The Bolsheviks disparaged the Julian calendar precisely because it was the Church calendar and tried to enforce the civil calendar as that of the new atheist order of communism. The people would have none of it and as was recently mentioned during an interview with an Orthodox prelate over there, the people turned out in droves to celebrate Christmas on January 7th, taking time off from work etc.

The experience of Greek Catholics and Orthodox elsewhere may be different, but the distance between the time of communist repression and the forced imposition of the Gregorian/civil calendar as the “atheist calendar” is still too vivid in the memory for many who observe the Julian calendar.

Alex

Alex
 
Dear Friends,

The two issues, the Julian Calendar and the date of Easter/Pascha are separate ones. The calendar, whether Julian or Gregorian, does not affect the calculation of Pascha, as I understand it.

Apart from the Russian, Ukrainian, Georgian and then Old Calendarist Orthodox jurisdictions, the rest of Orthodoxy observes the “Reformed Julian Calendar” (i.e. Christmas is on Gregorian December 25th). But Easter is observed on the same date throughout Orthodoxy (except in Finland) based on the rules laid down by the early Ecumenical Councils and the Tradition of the Church.

Even if all Eastern Orthodox and Catholic Churches adopted the new calendar, this does not resolve the issue of the date of Pascha/Easter since it is governed by conciliar decrees.

The maintenance of the Old Calendar is one of those things guaranteed by Rome when the Unia of Brest was signed. One problem with adopting the Gregorian or civil calendar is that, for Ukrainians in Ukraine, it is associated with . . . communism. The Bolsheviks disparaged the Julian calendar precisely because it was the Church calendar and tried to enforce the civil calendar as that of the new atheist order of communism. The people would have none of it and as was recently mentioned during an interview with an Orthodox prelate over there, the people turned out in droves to celebrate Christmas on January 7th, taking time off from work etc.

The experience of Greek Catholics and Orthodox elsewhere may be different, but the distance between the time of communist repression and the forced imposition of the Gregorian/civil calendar as the “atheist calendar” is still too vivid in the memory for many who observe the Julian calendar.

Alex

Alex
Pascha is celebrated according to the Old Calendar regardless of the calendar a given church regularly uses (except, apparently, Finland).
The calendar used changes when March 21st is marked, and therefore when the first full moon after this date is.
 
… One problem with adopting the Gregorian or civil calendar is that, for Ukrainians in Ukraine, it is associated with . . . communism. The Bolsheviks disparaged the Julian calendar precisely because it was the Church calendar and tried to enforce the civil calendar as that of the new atheist order of communism…
It strikes me as ironic that the communists rejected the calendar developed by an emperor in favor of one developed by a pope as an anti-religious measure. :rolleyes:
 
Dear Friends,

The calendar, whether Julian or Gregorian, does not affect the calculation of Pascha, as I understand it.
What do you mean? Whether the calendar a church follows is Gregorian or Julian determines which day of the year is considered March 21. So how can the difference between the two calendars not affect the calculation of Pascha? Isn’t the fact that Julian 3/21 and Gregorian 3/21 are different days precisely the reason we generally have different Paschas each year?
Even if all Eastern Orthodox and Catholic Churches adopted the new calendar, this does not resolve the issue of the date of Pascha/Easter since it is governed by conciliar decrees.
My understanding is that both churches calculate Pascha as the first Sunday after the first full moon after March 21 (the fixed ecclesiastical vernal equinox).

If everyone were on the same calendar - Julian or Gregorian, not that I’m suggesting this at all - wouldn’t the calculations align because now we’d be starting from the same point?
It strikes me as ironic that the communists rejected the calendar developed by an emperor in favor of one developed by a pope as an anti-religious measure. :rolleyes:
Indeed. Well, Communists have never been quite rational, in my opinion…
 
Fone Bone 2001.

The Eastern Church using the old calendar calculates Pascha according to the actual, astronomical full moon and the actual equinox as observed along the meridian of Jerusalem and also applies the formula so that Easter always falls after Passover. So essentially Orthodox Pascha will always occur on the first Sunday after the first full moon following the Vernal Equinox after Passover. Gauss’ formula for the Paschal Full Moon reduces to Julian 20 March + (((YR MOD 19)*19+16) MOD 30).

The Gregorian method does not use the actual astronomically correct date for the Vernal Equinox, but March 21, and Easter sometimes precedes Passover (even by weeks). Gregorian Easter can never occur before March 22 or later than April 25.

So Orthodox Julian Pascha can be up to 5 weeks later than the Gregorian Easter. All that has to happen is to have a mismatch of the equinox to push it a month later, and then an additional week can occur because of Passover.

peltiertech.com/WordPress/calculating-easter/

moonwise.co.uk/neweaster.php
 
Here are five week differences:

Western Easter Orthodox Pascha Vernal Equinox (J)
Code:
  31 Mar 2002, 05  May  2002,    Mar 20 2002 
  27 Mar 2005,       01  May  2005,    Mar 20 2005
  23 Mar 2008,      27 Apr 2008,    Mar 20 2008
  31 Mar 2013,       05  May  2013,    Mar 20 2013
  27 Mar 2016,       01  May  2016,    Mar 20 2016
Vernal Equinox:

Year: Gregorian Calendar Julian Calendar
Code:
          2002:    Mar 20 19:16 UT,    Mar 20 15:16 AST,    Mar 20 14:16 EST,       Mar 20 11:16 PST,       Mar 07 19:16 UT JC
2005: Mar 20 12:33 UT, Mar 20 08:33 AST, Mar 20 07:33 EST, Mar 20 04:33 PST, Mar 07 12:33 UT JC
2008: Mar 20 05:48 UT, Mar 20 01:48 AST, Mar 20 00:48 EST, Mar 19 21:48 PST, Mar 07 05:48 UT JC
2013: Mar 20 11:02 UT, Mar 20 07:02 AST, Mar 20 06:02 EST, Mar 20 03:02 PST, Mar 07 11:02 UT JC
2016: Mar 20 04:30 UT, Mar 20 00:30 AST, Mar 19 23:30 EST, Mar 19 20:30 PST, Mar 07 04:30 UT JC
 
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